Mr Stuart's Track

N-W of Milparinka is the one I think I dont know of the other 2. i have looked on Google Earth but the resolution is only fair. i think it a tributary of a river.

That one was Sturt's.

Quote from my Gazetteer:

"Jan. 1845. Sturt and party had to stay here from 27.1.1845 to 17.7.1845 because all the surrounding water sources had dried up. This was the only place where water was abundant, although it became scanty towards the end of their stay."

I'll keep an eye out for the documentary. My great great grandfather was part of the overland telegraph team that left from adelaide and he sent the first message down the line from Alice to adelaide.

cityslicker

Verrrry interesting.
What was his name? Was he a worker, surveyor, contractor, or telegraphist?

Which party was he with? (there were three sections or parties).

I think Todd himself sent the first message when the line was joined, above Alice Springs, near Central Mt Stuart. My recall (have not checked) is that Paterson, the boss of the northern section, joined the two ends together & got electrocuted - he was the conduit for the first time! I'll bet he dropped the ends quick smart!

Cheers

Gday Rick

His name was Benjamin Clarke and he was Officer in charge of Operators.

I wasn't correct when I said he sent the first telegraph from Alice - Adel. On 30 Dec 1871 he sent the first message south from Alice, but it only went as far as Charlotte Waters.

I"ve got a copy of his diary which says he was a member of the party led by Ray P Boucaut. When I get around to it I'd like to re-type the diary so it's a bit easier to read.

Sounds like Paterson had real dedication to the job :-)

Cityslicker,

I think that a Boucat was a rider for John Lewis. Lewis held the contract to carry the messages between the two ends of the line until it joined, later than planned.

Charlotte Waters , just over the NT/SA border, was a repeater station, as was, Strangways, Alice Springs, Tennant Creek, etc.
Two excellent books re the OT line are:
Overland Telegraph by Frank Clune.
Fought & Won by John Lewis.

That Diary would be an excellent to read, I imagine. Can I encourage you to re-type it and may be make it available to The Royal Geographical Society for publication, if you are unable to publish it?

Cheers

Quote: That Diary would be an excellent to read, I imagine. Can I encourage you to re-type it and may be make it available to The Royal Geographical Society for publication, if you are unable to publish it?

Or put it on Ebay!! :)

OK, I'm going to see where my grandfather got the hand written copy (not original) from and then check whether someone has already gone to the effort of retyping it. If I end up being the first to type it, I'll make it available to anyone who is interested.

Well the diary started off pretty dryly with mainly reports on the weather, water, horse feed and distance travelled, but the party is now almost to Alice Creek and they have a missing person believed dead with 2 others having to kill a horse and drink its blood to survive.

I've found the original diary is held at the Mortlock Library in SA although most of my family thought it to be in Sydney. I'm about 1/3 of the way through typing the diary and am awaiting advice from the state library as to how to proceed.

Even if it goes no further it's been worthwhile to learn a bit about the family history.

I also tracked down a copy of Overland Telegraph by Frank Clune so thanks for the reference.

!MPG:14!

Lovely pic of Depot Glen.
And you are quite correct in identifying the difference between the methods of travel. Upon Poole's death, Stuart, who was the party's draughtsman, became 2nd in command of Sturt's party. Sturt was very complimentary of Stuart's & as 2 i.c.

What battle with drink did Stuart have?

1) lack of it - the search for water- aka drink - was all consuming. The longest time the horses went without water was 101 hours. Could you go 4 days without a drink in those regions? There are many descriptions of the hours and efforts made to locate something to drink. And that is why the 4th & 5th expeditions did not succeed in getting to the north coast - lack of drink (water). Yes, a real battle with the demon drink.

2) Alcoholic drink - no battle at all. When you go one year in extremely tough mental & physical conditions without alcohol, it can hardly be said to be a battle with drink. The successful south - north trip of Stuart's was from December 1861 to December 1862. When Stuart returned from his last trip, he did what most would do - I certainly would - he had a few drinks. Is it fair to call this a battle? There was absolutely NO battle on any of his 6 trips with booze.

One imagines the survival instinct over-rides most other things, including the need to carry the demon drink. Jeffries left the party early on the last trip because he was asked, along with the others, to jettison most things in order to travel light. In his case he did not want to leave his greatcoat. That is why there is almost no scientific matter brought back by the naturalist, Waterhouse. They could not carry any superfluous items. If it was not necessary for immediate survival, it was got rid of.

Cheers

Gidday Rick,

As a follower of aussie explorers you would be aware that John McDouall Stuart was an amazing character who battled chronic illness (consumption, scurvy) as well as a crippling hand injury and the ongoing alcoholic problem. He loved a big bender when the bottle was near, but could also go without for long periods. We are lucky that we can take plenty of Chateau Cardboard and cold tinnies when we travel. There is no doubt Stuart was as tough as nails.

Did you see the exhibition of Stuart's memorabilia last year at the Immigration Museum? I believe it has finished now but there is a permanent collection available for viewing at the Masonic building on North Terrace. Apparently there is also a collection in Kirkaldy, Scotland (his birthplace).

Kingo

G'day Kingo

eerrrrrrr....yes..................sort of aware/ did see........(tongue in cheek)

as I am the President of the John McDouall Stuart Society Inc. The Conquering the Continent exhibition was done in the Migration Museum. We wanted to tell the story, but more importantly, to collect in one place for the public to see, as many of the significant artefacts of Stuart and the journey as possible. Many of the artefacts seen at that display belong to the state and are not normally available to the public. i did enjoy seeing many of them for the first time.

The Stuart Collection is housed in a registered museum at the Adelaide Masonic Centre, North Tce, Adelaide. We are in the process of upgrading the quality of the display and formulating a thorough Collections and Loan policy.

The John McDouall Stuart Society Inc welcomes members. There is a modest annual subscription, and there are many benefits.
contact me on
rickmoore@pacific.net.au

Cheers

PS Kingo, yes, I am an 'explorologist' -hey, maybe I just created a new word??
Love to make other contact with you.

Thanks Kingsley N, for to Pic & reference point. I have been to the Cooper Creek & Camp 119 of the B&W expedition & stopped for a look at Attack creek in NT of which Stuart turned back. I always thought that Depot Glen was on the Cooper at Camp 65 but my mistake.

It also points out the difference of B&W & Stuarts expedition. Bourke may have crossed the country first but at the cost of all his party's lives except 1 member King.

OK Rick,

You can never really know who you are dealing with on these forums. I hope I had my facts right! I have always had an interest in explorers especially SA based such as Sturt and Stuart. It is amazing how many Australians don't know anything other than Sturt "sailed" the Murray and Stuart has a road named after him! (That is if they even realise they are not one and the same!)
Some very good books have appeared lately. I would like to find out a bit more about Darke who was speared on the west coast. I will send you a message at the address given.

Kingo

Ahhh! that lovely question - who crossed the continent first?

John McKinlay (aka Big John) was sent by the SA Govt to find Burke & Wills. He crossed from south to north, September 1861 to Burketown and then over to Bowen on the Qld coast by August 1862.
Stuart did not get back until December 1862, wheras McKinlay was home in Adelaide by October of that year.

As far as Explorers go, McKinlay is a beauty - see if you can discover about his amazing expedition in the Top End & the marvellous way they got back to civilisation.

Rick,

Sarah Murgatroyd's wonderful account of B&W "The Dig Tree" has a chapter devoted to McKinlay. Fascinating stuff. Her book is not clear on how Big John got back from the top end. She says that he missed a boat connection and it took a year! She writes that the grave of Charley Gray was discovered "near Coongie Lakes" 110 km NW of the Dig Tree on 21st October 1861. McKinlay must have then proceeded north looking for Burke and Wills according to the time scale you outlined above.

Kingo

Kingo,

While I agree that Murgatroyd's book is a top read, it is not always accurate. And your example is just one. However, it's all to easy to be critical.

Charlie Gray's Grave is a very complicated story. I will try to summarize here:
In essence, Palmer had left Rockhampton; Landsborough sailed to the Gulf, Howitt left from Melbourne & McKinlay left from Blanchewater, just north of today's Strzelecki Track as it approaches the Moolawatana region. All were looking for Burke & Wills. The sum of costs for these searches was 30,000 pounds!

McKinlay discovered some human remains and evidence of saddles & camel hair, and he presumed it was Charlie Gray. The local aborigines told McKinlay they had eaten the muscles of the deceased. McKinlay named the region Lake Massacre and blazed a tree. It is in the Coongie region; NWPS currently forbids all access there. McKinlay, meanwhile, sent Hodgkinson back to Adelaide with the news. Hodgkinson eventually returned; McKinlay resumed the trip (it was a very wet year and progress was slow 'till well past Birdsville) and finished up at Bowen on the Qld coast, having been to the Gulf.

However, in very recently times the Charlie Gray story has been challenged. It now appears that the remains were of two unknown white fellas - What happened to Charlie Gray is still a mystery.

As we know, Howitt found only King alive. Howitt later returned and arranged the removal of B & W's remains. On the day declared as an Adelaide public holiday to welcome Stuart and his Companions home from the North Coast, the funeral of B & W was held in Melbourne.

In 2006 I attempted to visit Lake Massacre, and other marks of McKinlay's. It was a great trip with some interesting other people, but we saw only one of McKinlay's approx 13 blazed trees. All good 4wd and camping stuff, indeed!

Cheers

PS Kingo - I will just check to see when McKinlay did return - I have been wrong before!!!!!!!! Maybe Murgatroyd was right? - was he a year later? Hmm......