Q. When is a National Park not a National Pk?

Submitted: Monday, Feb 05, 2007 at 23:23
ThreadID: 42035 Views:2543 Replies:15 FollowUps:7
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A. When you buy a National Parks Pass.
Any one of several versions available.
Reason for comment:- A NSW National Parks Pass gives you entry to NSW National Parks (only), a VIC National Parks Pass gives you entry to VIC National Parks (only), an SA National Parks Pass gives you.........
Whoever thought of this? Too bad if you are a Victorian visiting Northern VIC & Southern NSW, or if you are from NSW visiting Southern NSW and Northern VIC, or if you are and overseas visitor touring Australia for 1 month, or 3.
This is definitely un-Australian. National Parks and National Parks passes should be for all Australian National Parks. We are one people, one Nation, non-parochial. After all don't we Eastern Staters share the Murray River basin water as one Nation, all Austraians together?
I am just the messenger, please don't shoot the messenger.
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Reply By: disco driver - Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 00:05

Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 00:05
Hi Arkay,
What a brilliant idea!
(No I'm not taking the p##s)

Great idea and concept but parochialism would make it hard to put into practice.

Can you imagine all the states agreeing to this, even though they are all of the one political persuasion.
They can't even agree on a standard set of speed limits Australia wide.

IMHO it would only work if we were to abolish all the state governments and centralise all powers in Canberra and I'm not in favour of that at all.

For international and interstate tourists perhaps all the states could agree to act as agents and sell the various Park Passes for the other states, (on commission of course). Another source of revenue. LOL

Hope I live long enough to see your idea come into being, but I doubt it.


AnswerID: 220076

Reply By: Member - Jeff H (QLD) - Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 00:15

Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 00:15
Can of worms there Arkay.
Many so-called National Parks are full of ferals, yet domestic animals are generally prohibited. (Wish the old Dingo was still with us , ahhahahaha.) I know I know, another Law would kick in.

Same with fishing licences: travel from Qld to Tassie, and risk an illegal cast from a remote river bank? Not on yer nellie: not these days.

Maybe Pauline had something --- .
AnswerID: 220081

Reply By: Dave198 - Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 01:26

Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 01:26
Arkay, it is, as I am sure you would know, purely a revenue raiser for each States' NPWS.
There are even different fees for different parks within the same State.

They say it's a user pays thing, but we just gotta live with it.

I wholeheartedly agree with you though. It would be nice to be able to get a 'universal' type pass for when you go on hokidays to different states.
Your RAA/NRMA membership covers you in different States, a cross border NPWS Pass would be good.

I am not a fisherman, but I think you have to have a NSW fishing permit to fish the Murray from Victoria. Not sure if that's right, just what I have heard.
That's gotta be just a revenue raiser for NSW.

AnswerID: 220089

Follow Up By: madfisher - Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 11:29

Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 11:29
All money raised from fishging lic. goes back to the fisheries. The money is then spentr on restocking, research, projects such as providing fishways on weirsetc. and on going research into carp removal. This is the reason native fish have recovered in most areas.
I never begrudge buying a fishing licence as I know it will provide better fishing for my grandkids, Although it hurts when you buy a tassis one.
cheers Pete
FollowupID: 480696

Follow Up By: On Patrol - Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 18:49

Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 18:49
Hey madfisher
You said "All money raised from fishging lic. goes back to the fisheries"

I suspect to the same degree that road tax gets spent on roads mate.

Call me cynical if you will but i doubt that statement is 100% true, it would be un Australian (Politician that is) if it were true.

Laws only apply to the law abiding mate, and some people still have a mincer on their boat to fool the inspectors re fish size and spices etc, just the same as a lot of folk run the risk re the licences. These people were, and remain, the problem regarding fish stocks, just the fisheries now meet budget's because of licence fees. I would love to believe you are right mate.

FollowupID: 480775

Follow Up By: madfisher - Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 23:17

Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 23:17
Colin Hi
I am no longer involved in fishing politices, But I was for about 25 years. NSW only I dont know what goes on in other states. But I can tell you the licence fee does not go into consoldated revenue, It is collected by NSW fisheries. A group of elected fisherman than decide what percentage of funds is going to be spent where. About 20 years ago the nationals decided to do away with fishing lics. We had very few and reduced fish stockings, and no law enforcement because they couldnt afford to pay them. RESEARH you have got to be joking. It took us dedicated and forward thinking fishers 10 years of lobbing to get it reinstated. NSW fisheries are now bleeding over three million native fish a year and probaly rescued the TROUT COD and EASTERN COD from extintion
Cheers Pete
FollowupID: 480838

Follow Up By: On Patrol - Wednesday, Feb 07, 2007 at 07:23

Wednesday, Feb 07, 2007 at 07:23
Thanks for that mate, it is enlightening, I applaud the state fisheries on that initiative.

He what if road revenue was managed by say NRMA (or any state motoring body in that state) with reps from the public, transport, pedestrians (not Harold Screwloose) and other road user groups etc... Then maybe we would have good safe roads to almost everywhere.

I live in a fools paradise.

FollowupID: 480869

Reply By: ozdragon - Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 02:21

Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 02:21
Whilst I agree in principle, I can understand why the different states do their own thing. Each state knows what is needed at their own parks in the way of amenities etc. If a fair distribution of the income could be negotiated between the states then I would support your idea. However I can just imagine the meeting "Our parks get more visitors that your parks so we should get more of the proceeds", "Yes but we have better features than you".....Know what I mean?

AnswerID: 220091

Reply By: hl - Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 06:44

Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 06:44
The real question should be:
Why should we have to pay at all!
State Forests can do it, you can camp there free, as it should be in National Parks as well. We don't need copperlogs in campgrounds and basic facilities should not cost that much to maintain. Sure, if there is a fully maintained campground with shower block etc, a charge is reasonable.
The Annual Fee in NSW is way over the top. Designed to keep people out.
AnswerID: 220095

Follow Up By: Redback - Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 12:00

Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 12:00
Because State Forest are a self owned bussiness that's payed from profits from timber felling sales and seed harvesting.

NPs are a Government funded Land management orginisation, relying on donationss, park fees and government funding.

FollowupID: 480704

Follow Up By: Utemad - Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 14:08

Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 14:08
Totally agree Redback.

In Qld it costs about $4 per night to camp in a State Forest.
In a State Forest the $4 per night is a bonus. In a National Park it is about the only outside income they get. You might even get toilets. Maybe. Plus if it begins to cost too much too much to have the campsite they just close it. Imagine if they closed camping on Fraser because it was costing too much.
FollowupID: 480727

Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 09:19

Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 09:19
OK. I'll go along with your view Arkay.

All Parks should be turned over to Federal Government control and then only one pass would be required.

Probably be in the order of $350 per annum.

And then, you need to get past Mike Rann who will have an alternative plan for an independent organisation to run it. That will escalate the cost to $500 per annum.

Sorry mate. I should be more serious.

Personally, I have no problem with the SA Desert Parks pass.
I cannot comment on other States' requirements but it gets down to a "user pays"
principal I think. Any costs only help pay for basic facilities maintenance of the Parks anyway.

I'm diagonally parked in a parallel Universe!

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AnswerID: 220118

Reply By: Member - John (Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 11:54

Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 11:54
Aren't the N.P's Federally Controlled / Owned with management given to the respective state's along with some Federal Funding???

Obviously not enough Federal funding goes along with the deal and so the state's charge a fee to assist with management cost's etc of a Federal reservation.
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AnswerID: 220142

Reply By: greydemon - Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 12:36

Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 12:36
It should be fairly simple ... whichever State sells the Pass keeps the money. the valid pass for one State is then accepted by all others. There should be no need for a fee increase as your 'usage' of parks cannot increase beyond the 24 hrs per day for the length of the pass which is what you have already paid for.

This works in many other organisations without hitch. For example, if you are a Member of the National Trust in England you get into all their Stately Homes etc free. If you are a Member of the Australian National Trust on holiday in England you are accepted as a full member and also get in free. Likewise for UK members visiting Oz. No money changes hands between the organisations. This would work for National Parks if someone in authority wanted it to.

Incidentally, if going to England and intending to visit Stately Piles, I suggest that you join the Australian National Trust - it costs about half as much (in WA anyway) as joining in England so works out as very good value. But be aware that many old hill forts/castles/stonehenge come under another organisation called 'British Heritage' so you have to pay.
AnswerID: 220151

Reply By: Bware (Tweed Valley) - Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 12:40

Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 12:40
I agree, mate, although I don't know what the answer is. Not only tourists suffer this; residents of border areas deal with this crapola every day. Being near the border of NSW/QLD with a NSW parks pass makes me think twice about camping over the border. Or fishing over the border. Certain jobs require certificates which aren't recognised over the border. And we have to put up with different time zones FFS. Buy a car over the border with 11 months rego on it and you've got to re-register it in your home state.

AnswerID: 220153

Reply By: Alloy c/t - Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 15:43

Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 15:43
Not just interstate problems , problems and rippoffs also on a state basis ,,want to drive on the beach at Bribie island ?? that will be $32 for 1 calender mth thank you ,, you say you want a yearly pass ?? $100 thank you ,, oh you have decided to go to Moreton Island for a day, a week /10 days ,$32 for a 1mth pass thank you !! and dont forget to pay your camping fees !!!!! funny that the one vehicle can only be on the one strip of sand at the one time yet pay for two.
AnswerID: 220179

Reply By: Member - Jack - Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 15:48

Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 15:48
Seems like another instance showing just how out of date the idea of States, Statehood and State Government is in this modern era. National parks that aren't ... rail gauges that don't fit across borders ... different road rules and signage depending on where you are ... a squillion different education curriculum(s) (or whatever the plural is ... ) ... State health run by the butcher, the baker and the candlestick maker in local area health centres ... aargggghhhh !!!!!!

Phew! Glad I got that off my chest!

The hurrieder I go, the behinder I get. (Lewis Carroll-Alice In Wonderland)

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AnswerID: 220180

Reply By: Wayne (NSW) - Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 17:45

Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 17:45

You think that you have it bad.

As a driver for a tag along company I know that if we want to pass through any Nat. park or state forest we have to notify and pay for the privilege. This applies all over Australia

In most states one application and fee to the Nat. parks and state forest will allow us to travel through all the park and forest area in that state for one year.

In NSW we must apply and pay every Nat. park separately. It is just the way they work. We still have to pay even if we are passing through and not camping.

BTW, we have to pay a annual fee to go on to Stockton Beach plus the $10 per vehicle pass. This year the annual fee has gone from $300 to $3000 per year.

In a perfect world it would be easy.

AnswerID: 220196

Follow Up By: Crackles - Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 20:48

Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 20:48
Wayne I looked at running a 15 day tour from the Big Desert in Vic up through the Flinders Ranges, into the SA deserts, accross to the Stuart National Park then down south through 4 other reserves into Mungo & home. You don't think I fell off my perch when I found each Park & reserve was looking for between 300 to $500 each for simply visiting (often for only 1 day) then there was an additional camping fee of between $1.10 & $8 per person per night. Talk about choking tourism. It's very hard to justify the costs to guests when on their own they can see these same places at a fraction of the costs.
Cheers Craig............
FollowupID: 480801

Reply By: Steve - Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 21:50

Tuesday, Feb 06, 2007 at 21:50
bloody hell mate, we can't even get a train from Sydney to Brisbane and you expect all "National" Parks to come together?

AnswerID: 220264

Reply By: NicI - Wednesday, Feb 07, 2007 at 12:47

Wednesday, Feb 07, 2007 at 12:47
In the US there are State Parks, run and funded entirely by each state, and National/Federal Parks for which, apart from the ones in Alaska and Hawaii, you can buy - you guessed it - a pass to get into all of 'em. Daily, fortnightly, monthly, seasonally, yearly. An excellent system.

Tasmania have renamed theirs "Parks and Wildlife - Tasmania", reflecting the fact (and the implied fees) that they are a State Parks service.

Perhaps the others should do this too - at present they're national in name only.
AnswerID: 220381

Reply By: NicI - Wednesday, Feb 07, 2007 at 12:51

Wednesday, Feb 07, 2007 at 12:51
However, Arkay, I agree with you. All National parks should be accessible and managed nationally - take the States out of it and have one pass.

While we're at it (this may cop some criticism), let's drop ALL entry and camping fees at ALL government-run parks, the way it used to be. Let's have enough of our tax money given to these facilities to support them properly without separate fees. Down with 'user pays' !

AnswerID: 220382

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