what's the best, sell up or rent out.
Submitted: Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 10:49
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kampen
hi all, looking at doing the big one at last,(
well at last looking at doing it) everyone's thoughts please, do we sell up and invest the money as no end bye date to the trip, or is it better to rent it out. sell most of our furniture as it's getting on a bit anyway that way we can store the few things we have at kids
places ( to return favours) .there is a lot of planing to do. haven't got a start date yet, more than likely to be early next year but have to start planing now.it is going to be a working trip. your ideas and advice will be greatly appreciated. thank you in advance
Peter and Linda
Reply By: Dustin - Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 11:33
Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 11:33
That's a tough decision. I don't know where you are located but if you are in
Perth I think you would be crazy to sell the way the house prices are increasing.
If it was me I would hold on to the house for a few reasons. You always have a place to come back to if it all goes wrong, that a nice and secure feeling. You didn't say what you would be investing in but if its in the stock market then you are gambling and you could lose and lose big time (but you also have the potential to make big time). By keeping the house you may have moderate growth or moderate loss if the bottom drops out of the market. But you will still have your house. If you gamble on the stockmarket then you have the potential to make or lose big time.
A compromise may be to realise some of the equity in your home in the form of a loan and invest that money in the stock market or what ever investment you had in mind. If you do
well you have to only service the loan for a short time until the return on your investment starts to pay the interest on the loan. And you still get to keep your house rented out. This is an expensive option but can give you the best of both worlds. Make sense or have I confused the matter? Hope this helps a bit.
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Reply By: Robin - Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 11:33
Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 11:33
I'd spend a few months on the road just to be sure before I'd sell the house.
Seen to many people change the
views over time.
Robin MIller
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Reply By: kampen - Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 11:39
Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 11:39
thanks Dustin and Robin for your quick reply's, sorry i didn't say where we are but it is the
gold coast. food for thought already. thanks.
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Reply By: Bilbo - Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 11:46
Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 11:46
Kampen,
My advice would be, don't sell the house, start yer trip and then have another look at things.
Whilst we never had any intention of selling the house, we did start off on a trip and decided after 3 months that we weren't really enjoying it all that much. It was OK but,,,,,,,,,,but we got bored going from one van
park to another.
We ended up going back home for the summer and getting re-kitted out to go back to gold prospecting - which we've been doing for years, off & on.
So now we stay home, near the baech in summer and go bush for gold in the winter.
I'm glad we didn't sell - we live near
the beach in
Perth and prices are just incredible!
Bilbo
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Follow Up By: Member - Peter R (QLD) - Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 12:29
Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 12:29
Kampen,
I live at the
Gold Coast too and saw on TV the other night that the experts are predicting house prices will rise by over $200000 by 2010.
Today's Bulletin expresses the opinion GC prices are set to rise.
I would be hesitant to sell house, as the cost to buy back in in a few years may be many thousands more than your invested money has grown to.
Selling costs and stamp duty to buy a replacement house , plus tax on investment ,need to be taken into consideration.
Went to a garage sale a few years ago at the GC, and the couple there were selling up and hitting the road.
Prices since then have really escalated and house would have increased by a big sum.
Pedro
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Reply By: joc45 - Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 12:12
Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 12:12
Yep, don't sell the house, you'll have something to come back to, as it's almost a certainty that after 12 months on the road you'll be looking for home comforts again, at least for a while. And the stock market is at a real high at present, meaning that there's a chance of it falling soon. Rentals are good for house owners at the moment, just make sure you get a good tenant. If you're travelling, then search out a good agent to handle it all, incl repair issues.
Easier to rent out unfurnished, as appliances and furniture create additional breakdowns to worry about. Just make sure that the house is pretty ship-shape (eg hot
water system) before you go so that the agent is not ringing you re major breakdowns.
Gerry
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Reply By: Footloose - Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 12:14
Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 12:14
Don't sell up. If you find a better spot (and I live here and have been there done that and there's no better place :)) then you can flog the property. Excellent advice on doing a shorter trip first. You might actually find that you miss your friends and *shock, horror* the kids. Good luck with it.
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Reply By: Member - Rotord - Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 12:32
Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 12:32
Start by going to a local real estate agent that has a good reputation for property management . Ask them to inspect your property and produce a speadsheet on income and costs when rented . Be careful about assumed inflation rate , tennant turnover [ letting fees ] , and predicted rent increases . Make extra allowances for maintenance , damage and loss of rent . Finally , you will have calculated a percentage return on the value of your house . Historically this has been about 4% , but because rents haven't increased in proportion to housing values don't be surprised if it is about 1% .
Next , talk to a financial adviser about selling the house and investing . He will first allow for the costs of selling [ minor ] and the costs of buying when you finally decide to settle [ major ] . He will then determine your overall situation and your attitude to risk and returns . If you are super cautious [ and in some situations you should be ] he could recommend cash or fixed interest [ bonds ] that are safe and return about 6% [ but that is before inflation ] . If you are daring he may recommend growth managed share trusts which in the medium to long term [ 5 to 8 years ] return much more . Or you could settle for a diversified spread of investment risks and returns . Seeing as you should hedge against house prices rising a managed property trust such as Australian Unity Property Security Growth Fund may be appropriate . This fund has returned better than 20% per year for some years , but remember that past performance is not a guarrantee . You will note that the longer you travel the easier the investment scenario becomes , partly to provide for markets rising and falling and partly to spread fixed costs such as stamp duty on your next house over a longer investment period .
When your financial advisor has come up with a plan , take it to an independant advisor for comment .
Talk to as many knowledgable and experienced people as possible . This
forum is an excellent place to keep coming back to as you see the need for specific advice on detail .
Note that I haven't said sell or not sell the house . There is a lot of ground to cover before that decision is to be made .
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Reply By: Johnnotoo - Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 12:47
Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 12:47
Never sell real estate unless you REALLY have to. And even then think twice about it. I would venture to say that most people on this
forum who have sold property in the past, wished that they hadn't. Unless of course you sell and upgrade to another property.
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Nullagine) - Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 14:48
Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 14:48
sold my house in kal to buy the
perth house. Didnt have too just thought it sounded good If i had hung on for 6 - 9 months and rented it out I would have made an extra 20k at least although i have sved some on intrest
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Reply By: V8Diesel - Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 13:34
Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 13:34
NEVER sell your primary place of residence. Sell a kidney or peddle your ring in Kings Cross if you have to, but hang on to your house.
A 'life on the road' sounds great, but the novelty will wear off in time.
Perth house prices increased by an average of 37% in 2006, work those figures out.
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Follow Up By: Member - Rotord - Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 15:54
Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 15:54
Your being selective in quoting
Perth prices .
Sydney and
Melbourne houses lost about 20% in value in the last two years and the Austalian share index rose by more than 20% each year for the last two years . Also , as I said above you can hedge against rising house values by investing in a managed real estate trust . I have made money out of shares , managed trusts , and real estate . I made most by being selling real estate at the top of a boom . Hanging on to real estate after the boom peaks can be a bad decision . Very hard to predict , but I reckon that
Perth has peaked .
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Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 16:10
Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 16:10
You can't live in a portfolio.
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Follow Up By: Member - Rotord - Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 17:12
Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 17:12
But your portfolio can buy you a very nice house .
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Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 17:35
Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 17:35
And if don't know exactly what you're doing (and sometime even if you do), you can lose your life savings.
Any idiot can do OK in real estate by doing bugger all. Look at me!
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Reply By: kampen - Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 13:38
Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 13:38
thanks everyone , theres some good advise there and plenty to get us thinking. thank you all..
Peter and Linda
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Reply By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 14:33
Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 14:33
I agree with everyone else.
I'm on the
Gold Coast as
well. About four years ago my brother-in law's neighbour (also
Gold Coast), was offered what he though was a great price for his house. He sold and went touring for about 18 months. Came back and couldn't afford to buy back into the market. We would have needed an extra $150,000 just to buy his old hous back.
Owned his house outright before, but now lives in a much worse house with a mortgage. Had to go back to work to pay for it.
Wouldn't want that to happen to me.
My problem is I can't get the wife to even rent ours. So we do trips of 12 to 16 weeks at a time. Mostly head off for the winter and spend a lot of the summer at home or on shorter trips. Says If I get her a nice big van so she can take her sewing machine etc, she would consider it. Maybe one day, but for now I like the flexibility and rough road capability of the CT.
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Nullagine) - Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 14:51
Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 14:51
I am rarely home so have a housemate - if you get agood one they will look after thehouse
well and give them discount rent for extra jobs (garden etc) so you make beer money and the house gets looked after the housemate gets a house to themselves for cheap win-win
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Reply By: Pajman Pete (SA) - Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 15:13
Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 15:13
We bought our home in 2000 from a couple who built it as their dream retirement place, then got the travel bug and moved to
Darwin to run a backpackers lodge.
3 years later they were back in
Adelaide and with more money could only get a little 3 bedroom place in an ordinary location. They regretted their decision.
Pete
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Follow Up By: Member - Peter R (QLD) - Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 16:11
Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 16:11
If you intend to rent through an agent include in the agreement that tenant is liable to pay 80% of
water usage bill.
The 20% you pay is to cover
water used to
water plants etc that you own.
Heard it on ABC this morning.
Pedro
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Nullagine) - Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 16:22
Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 16:22
?? 80% if not more of your
water usage goes on the garden. My last
water bill was $10 now that I have moved into a place with a
bore down from $130 without!
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Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 19:03
Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 19:03
Yes, more
water goes on the garden than in the shower by a long way. That's why it is common practice for the landlord to cover a certain percentage of the
water bill to look after "their" garden.
We have just rented our place out in
Perth after deciding not to sell. We have moved to
Busselton in the south west and I'm becoming more and more happy with the decision to keep hold of it. We had a tenant within 1.5 hours of putting on the rental market and are making more in rent than our repayments are, even after the real estate fees.
We opted to pay 0% of the
water bill, our place has a big garden, however it also has a good
bore, hence, they are not using any of "their"
water to keep "our" gardens nice and green.
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Follow Up By: tonysmc - Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 19:59
Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 19:59
Don't sell the House. We have just been away for 3 1/2 years and rented ours out and we thank our lucky stars everyday we never sold, as we came very close to doing so. Friends sold up and are now struggling to get back into the market. As for the
water, we payed 100% of the
water bill and have automatic watering system and I still don't believe the garden received much watering as alot of the plants have gone, so I may as
well let them pay it all. I was disappointed at first, but now am enjoying being back in the garden again replanting.
Tony
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Reply By: Member - Peter R (QLD) - Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 19:42
Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 19:42
It may be different in other states but here at the
Gold Coast and
Brisbane in Qld there is a charge for
water usage apart from the fee to have it available.
Imagine a family with 3 teenage kids, having to pay nothing towards the
water usage.
No need to try and stop the long showers etc and the landlord picks up the bill.
That was the point in the tenant paying 80% of usage bill.
Cities don't usually have bores available, though I had one sunk to
water lawn and garden.
Pedro
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Follow Up By: kampen - Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 22:35
Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 22:35
hi Pedro,
yes good idea for them to pay for some of the
water but as you know here on the
gold coast we are only aloud to bucket
water the gardens anyway and not all tenants would bother with that. and with that i have never in the three years of living here watered
the gardens and nor has the wife. only
water they get is when it does rain. only got one out the front anyways . thanks again.
P.S. looks like we are renting. already being told how much we can get and it covers everything and we think we have a agent to. through word of mouth.Peter and Linda
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Reply By: Member - Peter R (QLD) - Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 23:16
Friday, Feb 16, 2007 at 23:16
Forget the garden, its the
water used by kids in showers etc which if tenant does not need to pay for then you have no control over what they use, and you pay the bill.
Pedro
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Reply By: sparrow - Saturday, Feb 17, 2007 at 11:53
Saturday, Feb 17, 2007 at 11:53
Hi Kampen,
I also live on the
Gold Coast and my advice would be to hold onto your house and rent it out.There was a prediction by a property expert,on the local radio last week,that residential properties here are expected to increase in value by about 50% over the next 4 years.We have several cheap rental properties which have tripled over the last 10 years and dont look like slowing up.Just get yourself a good real estate agent to manage your property while you travel.There are over 12000 new residents moving here every year and there is a shortage of good rental properties.You may be quite surprised just what your home is worth.
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