The truth about Chinese 12 volt eletric winches
Submitted: Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 21:50
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Willem
Today my more technical mate and I, pulled the BRAWN 9500 down to see if we could find what was making the drum slip. Having pulled it all to pieces and having put it all back together again(without having any spare parts left over) we are pleased to announce that they are very
well built. All we found is that there was a build up of compressed grease in the Brake area. Not sure if that was the problem but will know tomorrow when I mount it on the GQ again. The gear teeth throughout the box are square and not bevelled and this is apparent when switching the clutch handle from OUT to IN. A bit of power fiddling fixes that.
While we had it apart I saw stamped on the inside of the Gearbox mount the letters T MAX. Now this is there despite what the distributors of TMAX told me....that Brawn was a poor illegal copy of T MAX.
So one could possibly assume that most other brand name Chinese built
winches could stem from the T MAX factory as
well.
Cheers
Reply By: Scubaroo - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 22:07
Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 22:07
It could still be technically a "counterfeit" even though it has T MAX stamped components inside of it - it's apparently not uncommon for Chinese manufacturers to "leverage the investment" on the tooling available for legitimate products they've been commissioned to manufacture for an overseas company, and continue to manufacture the same goods and sell them as generics to whomever wants to import and re-brand them. Occasionally parts are substituted with cheaper materials etc - look at the rash of Bushranger compressor clones on the market, some with cheaper pistons and wiring, but otherwise identical.
That said though, the Brawns could simply be identical to the T MAX - but I'll bet the T MAX people aren't happy about the situation.
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Follow Up By: Member - Willie , Epping .Syd. - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 11:27
Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 11:27
Scubaroo ,
It was the same in my industry . You get the exclusive agency for XYZ from a factory in China only to find a couple of months later , an identical product ABC from the same factory in the market .
The factory swears that you are mistaken :
" no that is not T MAX written there "
" some factory has copied the mould and forgotten to remove the T MAX imprint ".
" we promise you Mr Scubaroo , we are honourable . We would not do this sort of thing "
" you are our future in Australia Mr Scubaroo "
" we will give you a better price to put this other bad man out of business "
They have a short term policy regarding sales .
Willie
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 22:29
Monday, Feb 26, 2007 at 22:29
*GASP* NEVER!
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Reply By: Member - Hughesy (SA) - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 02:10
Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 02:10
Willem I bought a Brawn winch off the businees owner (can't remember his name)at the
Sydney 4x4 Show about 4 years ago. He handed it to me in a T-Max box!! I questioned him but he said that's how he buys them and then makes the "Brawn" mods. Never really got to try it in a decent winch before someone stole my first 75 series.
I've got another "cheap" winch (12,000lb) on my 100 series and it has been good. When I pulled my mate out of the
salt lake 6 months ago I actually bent the bullbar where its mounted.........I would have thought the winch would fail before it did that.
I know what you mean by the lever being hard to engage and disengage. A little foward or back will solve that......no synchro ;)
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Follow Up By: japmel - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 09:53
Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 09:53
Did you know Toyota have a recall notice out for there "Genuine Toyota Winch Bull Bars"
Something to do with how they are mounted.
Regards
japmel
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Follow Up By: Member - John R (NSW) - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 10:04
Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 10:04
There's nothing on the government recall websites yet. Heard nothing from the manufacturer yet.
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Follow Up By: japmel - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 12:24
Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 12:24
I got a recall notice a few months ago, I don't seem to be able to find it at the moment.
There was a definite recall for Genuine Toyota Winch Bull bars on 100 series Cruisers. May have been only for IFS models though.
I would suggest if you have a Genuine Toyota Winch Bar that you ring your local Toyota dealer and ask them about it.
Regards
japmel
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Follow Up By: Member - Nick (TAS) - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 19:00
Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 19:00
Think it was only for Genuine Alloy Bullbar mounts on IFS vehicles that were suss
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Reply By: Footloose - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 08:54
Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 08:54
Now where did I see that article which tested the cheap Chinese
winches and came to the conclusion that they weren't much chop ?
Of course they were probably funded by another winch mob. At least they didn't conclude that Chinese
winches caused Global Warming :)))))
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Follow Up By: Willem - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 09:26
Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 09:26
Dunno Footy, where????
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Follow Up By: Footloose - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 09:31
Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 09:31
Pretty sure it was on a SA 4wd group webpage ?
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Follow Up By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 10:13
Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 10:13
It's further on in the document Footy. Your link is only to the first 15 pages.
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Follow Up By: Footloose - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 10:21
Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 10:21
Norm, you're right. However it proves what I said, that the article exists and I wasnt just blowing steam. Do you have the link to the actual article, as I couldn't find it ?
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Follow Up By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 12:14
Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 12:14
Part 1 was posted (or at least a link to it), some months ago. You have the right address for it. Just change the page numbers to 46to60.
It certainly does not suggest that all Chinese
winches are no good. Just the cheap eBay one they bought. A couple of the 'name brand' Chinese ones came up very
well in initial testing.
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Follow Up By: Footloose - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 12:29
Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 12:29
Norm, it was never my intention to say that all Chinese
winches were no good. I am certainly not an expert on them. "Cheap Chinese winches" is the term I used. Cheap is of course relative. But the review does make a good case for not buying them IMHO.
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Follow Up By: Member - JohnR (Vic)&Moses - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 12:44
Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 12:44
Reckon I have the rest of that issue on my computers here F'loosie. There is no conclusion yet to the long testing and Andrew actually commented on the next issue to come soon just over a week ago.
There is no article yet with any conclusion in alingnment with what you had asserted. There had been comment though about quality of some
winches and cast gears but no identificarion from memory.
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Reply By: handy - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 10:57
Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 10:57
i got one of them cheap 12000lb jobbies awhile ago and fitted it up.
but noticed when i drive it, it goes out not in and vice a versa
i know my wiring is right , the question is , is the sticker on the drum saying wind on this direction on arse about face or is their wiring wrong.
dont wont to burn it out on the first pull. cheers
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Follow Up By: Willem - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 19:54
Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 19:54
Handy
I don't think it matters. If you flick the release handle for free spooling you will soon see which way things go. I have always wound the cable it from the bottom of the drum.
Cheers
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 20:04
Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 20:04
was gonna say the same sounds like the rope is wound backwoods
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Follow Up By: handy - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 07:33
Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 07:33
the rope is wound on the right way,coming in from the bottom.
but when you press the out button it goes in.
so thats what i have to work out is it the sticker or wiring. cheers
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Follow Up By: Willem - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 10:45
Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 10:45
Change the sticker around. Easiest option. Either way the winch will be running at the same speed in or out except that at OUT there will not be any force against the gears.
Cheers
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Follow Up By: handy - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 11:01
Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 11:01
what i am worried about willem is they say not to run it in reverse to long as you risk burning it out. cheers
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 17:12
Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 17:12
My rope and all those I have seen come onto the drum from the top
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Follow Up By: Willem - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 18:50
Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 18:50
Handy,
I wouldn't worry about that. It is just that when you run it in reverse there is no load on the brake and the mechanicals are running at faster revolutions than normal. Normally you would use freespool to let your drum just roll out. Running it in reverse for a short while should not damage anything.
Bonz,
I think that there is more pull when the cable is being wound in from below. But that is only a theory and some pundits or luminaries may espouse a different view...lol
Cheers
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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 23:08
Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 23:08
Bonz
Them backwoods
Are they the same as the bush???
;_(
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Reply By: Emo - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 11:34
Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 11:34
Not all Chinese
winches are the same. Some appear to be pretty good like the Repco and Ironman ones but others are crap. If you're going to get a Chinese winch, I'd suggest getting one that has a bricks and mortar sales and service so if anything goes wrong, you can get it fixed or get parts for it.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Willem - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 20:01
Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 20:01
I have had my Brawn for 4 years now and it has been used every year.
See my reply to Crazie below.
Cheers
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Reply By: Member - Crazie (VIC) - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 12:55
Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 12:55
Hi Mate
Brawn brought in
winches and modified them. Also
check the gear between the
gearbox and the drum. If there are some type of shims there, they may need replacing. These sometimes compress and let the gear float, making the winch let go
The jack is pride of place, but hasnt been used for a while and I really should try and sell it.
Ads
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Follow Up By: Gob & Denny - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 16:46
Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 16:46
goodday adam
are you in this country are just using remote
if you are in this country i will give you a ring never know when you are travelling
steve
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Follow Up By: Willem - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 19:46
Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 19:46
Hey Ads
The winch works
well again. It was the brake that needed attention as Colin had put too much grease in that area. The grease went hard and stopped the brake from activating properly.
This Chinese winch is built like a brick 'bathroom',(not allowed to get bleeped) working all the gears off a very strong torsion bar.
Happy again...lol
Still going to get a Tirfor as backup though!!!
Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Crazie (VIC) - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 20:51
Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 20:51
Hi Steve
Yes mate, I am around at the moment, give us a call
ads
Willy
Cool dude
ads
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Reply By: Member - Blue (VIC) - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 13:34
Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 13:34
"While we had it apart I saw stamped on the inside of the Gearbox mount the letters T MAX. Now this is there despite what the distributors of TMAX told me....that Brawn was a poor illegal copy of T MAX."
Could be more evidence that "You get what you pay for" is the most over used and under-supported statement of the new millenium...
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Follow Up By: Willem - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 20:08
Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 20:08
Blue
My point really is that although TMAX deny any knowledge of BRAWN
winches as being their/similar product, it turns out to be a TMAX winch anyway.
I have had one issue with the winch in 4 years, which I have repaired now.
I bought the winch for $1300 at the time(2002) while a new WARN winch of similar size panned out at $2300. And having had issues with a number of WARN
winches over the years I class the BRAWN as better. But thats just my opinion.
Cheers
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Reply By: Mr Fawlty - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 20:19
Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 at 20:19
A safe bet that they would all come from "Winch Factory 279" in Xian....then branded as required, cunning the Asians...
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Follow Up By: Wok - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 07:54
Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 at 07:54
Thank you Mr Fawlty for your compliment..............we are a mysterious lot :)))
eng
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