my soapbox for the night

Unless you have a bad back already, I wouldn't wish it upon yourself so readily. As the quality of life with one sucks.

Trust me

Disc Fusion Operation next week

Kev

Not sure what the beach road accident was all about Richard, but cyclists in general rile me up.

The road rules must be applied rigorously if it suits them, but its ok for them to ride up through a queue of cars stopped at lights and across against the red if they reckon the poor nerds coming the other way can weave around them.

Always happy to hug a lane and not let cars past, turn suddenly without signals and they wonder why motorists get annoyed with them.

Personally, I give them a wide berth, stop to let them turn or go past and make sure I cannot be blamed for the consequences of their stupidity.

Cyclists are winging like mad because the M2 in Sydney has been widened, and their prerogative of a lane to themselves has disappeared. poor dears have to use the ordinary roads that we mere mortals have to use all the time. Sad.

In all honesty, they should be banned from major roads as you cannot trust them to not wobble into your path.

That's my whinge for the night!

Max.

Ok, I'm a member of a cycling club,

First of all I do agree that cyclists should obey the rules of the road and that the death on Beach Road was tragic. The cyclist responsible should be charged according to the law. The excuse of being unable to stop because of the forward momentum of the pack is understandable if you'd ever been in the middle of a pelaton. Stopping suddenly causes multiple accidents. This isn't being said to excuse any of them from running through a red light and causing a death. The leaders of the pack should've stopped and obeyed the rules.

My club and I do our riding on country roads and we always ride two abreast only and as close to the side of the road as is safely possible. It's amazing how many motorists pass us so closely that we could touch their sides. Like you said, how do they know we won't wobble. Sometimes with a vehicle approaching, another comes from behind us and passes without crossing the white line. Surely in cases like this, the seconds that it would've taken to wait for the oncoming vehicle to pass would not have been too much to ask. A couple of seconds for them, our lives for us.

It's the responsibility of all who use the roads to do so with courtesy and safety.

It angers me that some cyclists do not do the right thing and reflect badly on those who do.

Just as I wouldn't blame every motorist because some morons almost run me off the road, so I would hope that all cyclists would not be blamed for the idiots that flout the rules.

Viv

Gents

I think you will find that there are stupid cyclists around who give the responsible ones a bad name. In much the same way that there are 4WDers who do silly things, both on road and off, who give all 4WDers a bad name (read the thread "No wonder 4WDers have a bad name).
Please do not give cyclists a hard time while on the road - it could be me!

IanM

I do not think weight comes into picking up sticks in green waste. Being poked in the eye or having a vein ripped open in the arm or being stabbed in the stomach by a sharp stick poking through a plastic bag all constitute a health hazard.

What a crazy rant.

Bike riders can and do get charged for not observing road rules. I was given a fine many years ago for riding through a Stop Sign in Cairns.
I believe I was safe as I slowed down to a crawl, looked both ways and continued. We told the police we had slowed down to an almost stop and they agreed. But we did not come to a full stop. We did ask what constitutes a full stop? And did we need to put our feet on the ground? They told us no we did not need to have our feet on the ground but our body had to show signs of have a forward motion whilst the Bikes were stopped.
Anyway I was very peeved off about it and it taught me a lesson. I can't rember if I lost points though.

I was driving to work one morning with 3 rolls of sisolation in the roof. I threw the first roll up and checked to make sure it didnt fit under the side rails and it was alright. Threw the others up and took off toward Glen Helen. On the way out there is a stretch of road were it is really bad for overtaking (right were the local cycling club prefer to train) and I come across a group of cyclists who I sat behind for about 10 mins until I found a spot I could SQUEEZE past.
When I final got to work I realised 1 roll of sisolation had slid out from under the rail and was hanging out about 600mm! ( I was only missing them by about 500mm.) If any of them were a fraction taller they would have been dead.
I ride a motorbike and treat everyone on the road like they are about to do something stupid or are out to run you over!
If I were a cyclist I would avoid riding on the road were I live because there are plenty of bike paths and the cars and trucks will ultimately come off better.
I realise the cyclist amoung you might not agree but I think bitumen roads and especially the busy ones were really built for vehicles.
Cheers

I ride a bike to work, and vehicles other times. I'm fortunate that most of my bikeride is on a bike path.

Re safety: There is no way that Cyclists, Pedestrians and Vehicles should share the road. The cyclists and pedestrians will always get killed. Riding a bike on a main road or highway is just waaaaay too dangerous. No matter what the rules, or how careful the drivers are, its too easy to kill a cyclist.

The numbers of bikes seems to be increasing - we just need more decent bikeways to accommodate them.

Hey there all,

Following this post with great interest! I will point out that this reply isn't aimed at any one specifically, I just want to make the point that different people have different tastes, and chose to spend their time in different ways!

As a cyclist, and a four wheel driver (and the owner of a heavily modified Subaru 4WD turbo vehicle) it is quite disconcerting to hear a few people saying that they don't believe that one group of road users should/shouldn't be allowed to use our roads to go about their daily activities. I believe that there are a minority who spoil things for the vast majority. Maybe tolerance for those who do the right thing, and better policing for those who don't, may be the answer.

Do I agree that some-one cycling, who causes the death of a pedestrian, should be punished to the full extent of the law, if at fault? YES. Just in the same way that some-one driving a motor vehicle, (or swinging a baseball bat at some-ones head) and kills them should be.

I also ride to work every day, and chose to do so because it is quite expensive to drive any of my cars on a daily basis. I guess it's also better for the environment (although not one of my major reasons for doing so). In the eyes of the law, I am treated as non registered vehicle, and have to obey ALL of the road rules (and do so) and I can be fined, just as any vehicle user if I break them. Why should I not be allowed to ride my bike when I am obeying the rules of the road? When either riding or driving I regularly see clowns from all camps doing stupid things, it amazes me, but, there are still more people doing the right thing. Again, those not doing the right thing need to be stopped. Those doing the right thing should be allowed to carry on doing so!

I ride in a road cyclist group on a Saturday morning for training, and see some really stupid behaviour by some of my fellow cyclists. Such behaviour occurs, but is quickly sorted out by the regular cyclists in the pack, not only because it gives cyclists a bad name in the eyes of fellow road users, but also because it is dangerous to the rest of the riders in the pack. Do I agree with their stupidity? NO. Do I agree with motorists who come past yelling abuse when the pack is doing the right thing? NO. I am pretty sure any-one in a car will be a lot better off in a collision with a bike! Do all motorists behave this way? Definitely not.

I don't ride regularly on foot paths because there are many pedestrians who are easily startled whilst walking with "I-pods" or simply day-dreaming. Some even get abusive and yell "get off the footpath". If a recreational cyclist injures one of these people on a dual use path, who is to blame? Does this mean that a person who chooses to ride their bike should not ride on the foot path? Nor should they ride on the road? Where then should they ride? Anybody have trouble with congested traffic in their city?

My wife and I pay vehicle registration on four vehicles, only one of which is used for daily transport (her vehicle). The others are used for touring and track days. Surely I have a right to use this countries roads, seeing as I help pay for their upkeep? Surely everyone has a right to use the roads if they are doing the right thing. I don't think any one wants to be stereotyped as a crazy bike rider, souped up sports car hoon, or toorak tractor driving soccer mum if they are in fact a law abiding citizen!

I'm very sorry for such a long winded reply, many years of taking flack due to my taste in 4WD's, sports cars and bicycles has made me a little touchy when someone feels the need to question my right to use any of them.

Please consider those who are able to "do the right thing".

Regards,

Ross Brown.

Richard,
Understand how you feel but if you put the sticks though a mulcher or run them over with the mower then put them in compost bin with other kitchen scraps your plants would love you so would Mother Earth remember tread lightly.
macka2

I wonder if your rant is a troll? - if so, it has got me in!

I am a cyclist and a 4wd er.

The person who killed a pedestrian on the street, absolutely should be (and is being?) charged with the applicable offences.

However, put things in perspective - regardless of fault how many pedestrians/cyclists were killed last year by vehicles? (Scrubby would know!) Now ask yourself how many cyclists killed pedestrians? (or anyone else for that matter!). I doubt it would be more than one or two.

Bike riders should obey road rules and occasionally this is enforced (I should know, have been fined for running a red light while working as bike courier). I would agree that is the norm to see bike riders break the law, but then I would say in most instances most drivers break the law several times on an average trip home anyway. The difference is, the driver breaking a law (speeding, failing to stop, not giving sufficient room when overtaking, using a mobile and so on) is thhat more often than not is endangering the life of the innocent people around them. A bike rider breaking the law, while they can endanger someone else, are much more likely to cause serious damage to themselves than a innocent bystander.

I ride 3kms to work every day, and on average 2 or 3 days a week I will have a motorist endanger my life by failing to give way at a round about, running a red light or not giving sufficient room to overtake. I ride on relatively quiet backstreets, so generally am not deliberately putting my self in harms way. Of cause I am biased, but I can't remember the last time I endangered someone’s life (apart from perhaps the risk drivers having a heart attack from shock when the see me 2 feet in front of them in roundabout after they failed to look and give way before entering - or is it the abuse I subsequently hurl back at them?)

The rodies you see on the road (I'm a MTBiker for the record) often do seem to block traffic and slow things down. But they often take up the middle of a lane for their own safety - because of the motorists who are unwilling to pass them at a safe speed or distance. I know on some roads I ride on I too will take the middle of a lane because I have had too many near misses. Remember nearly all cyclists own a car (two in my case) and pay rego, so they have has much right, if not more to be on a road - particulalry as they don't cause nearly as much wear and tear on the road, are much cheaper in accidents (ie no panel damage, fewer deaths), and are doing something beneficial for their health, unlike the majority of car drivers...

And then the environmental thing, at least a cyclist, (a road rider in this instance) is choosing a form of transport or recreation that has significantly less impact on the environment, unlike us 4wders (me included) who travel large distances in 2 or 3 tonne vehicles burning fossil fules to travel on unsealed roads causing erosion, spreading weeds, squashing bilbies as we go, and all the while not getting much exercise and having an early death from heart disease.

I know who, for my future children’s sake, I would rather encourage to use the roads!

Oh, and as an aside to the comment about cyclists being kept off road. In cities where this is done, it has been found that the drivers actually become worse - partly because they forget how to interact safely with cyclists when they do appear on the road, and partly because the drivers start to think they own the road to the exclusion of riders (just like the cyclists probably think they own the cycle path to the exclusion of pedestrians). I have noticed this in Sydney and Perth, where Sydney drivers, while far from being safe, are safer than Perth drivers who don't see nearly as many cyclists. The smart cities develop safe roads that bikes and cars can share - in the long run this reduces the issues.

J.