Trailers in the Simpson desert - a warning!

Spot on Mick, All these offroad trailers will go anywhere!!! Or so the story the manufactures tell.

Well said , spot on ,every year you hear the stories ,yet they continue to come ,, Load of camel dung !! was the Vehicle NOT the trailer , as said , Camel dung.

The trailers (and I mean "PROPER" off-road trailers......which I class my Ultimate as being one off, but there are many other brands too) are certainly capable of going anywhere.

It is almost invariably the inability of the selected towing vehicle that is left wanting in most situations where somebody gets stuck whilst towing a "proper" off road camper trailer. I've taken mine across the Simpson (East to West too) and had no dramas, although I'm the 1st to admit it was in August 2005, just after the desert was re-opened after having been closed due to rain. As such, the dunes were nice and tight/well-packed and we were able to get up them with very little problem. The only time I had to reverse the back down one and have a 2nd go was when I chose the wrong gear and ran out of puff before I reached the top.

Now that I have the 6.5 Chev, I don't think I would have too many hassles whatsoever.

Having said all that, I agree that many trailer users do untold damage to the dunes because they refuse to lower their tyre pressures on the trailer as well as the 4x4. If they do deflate their tyres to a respectable level (say 18psi or so), they will not have such a detrimental effect on the dunes & they will be putting their 4x4 under much less stress and will not be as prone to bogging.

So, all you trailer towers, lower your bloody tyre pressures all-round. And, make sure you have a rig that will haul the trailer easily across the desert. IMHO, a Pajero, Prado, Pathfinder etc is NOT a suitable tow vehicle for a trip like that.....but that is just my opinion and others can (and will) differ......

Okay, I'm outa here.....ducking for cover.

Roachie Don't Duck,

I'll stand beside you. I too have towed an off raod camper across the Simpson, and a lot of other places too. I too had no problems, I only had to reverse on Big Red.

I also have photos of a "really good trailer" with a bent and twisted axle lying on the ground beside the trailer. Why, because it wasn't a really good trailer.

A properly set up towing Rig, driven properly can do any trip in Australia. The big problem is people who read a story in a newspaper or motoring mag like Open Road and think I can do that. Then jump in at the deep end, the SImpson Desert.

They don't Know their vehicle, they don't know the conditions and most importantly they don't know themselves.

When I first got a 4wd I thought I could go anywhere. I got bogged at Kurnell on the way home from the car yard. Then I got bogged out at Menai. Then I got bogged in the Blue Mountains then I smashed the exhaust in the Blue Mountains, then I knew I could get bogged, or broken anywhere. I still know that and take lots of precautions against it.

When I asked at Myrtleford Police station about a track through the Vic High Country the Officer said how long have you had the 4wd and where else have you been? He said 95% of those who get into trouble have no experience and don't know what they are doing.

Properly set up, properly maintained and properly driven whether or not you are towing a trailer.

Duncs

Hi Pom,

It takes one truck to recover the Prado and a second to tow the undamaged trailer. It isn't the sort of place where you can tow both together like a road train.
Cheers
ian@Mt Dare

I think Pomgonewalkabout was referring the to followup above where John (Vic)commented on the trailer makers telling people the trailers will go anywhere, when it wasn't the trailer that failed.

Atleast this is my best guess.

Pete

Pom, not knowing the facts but hazarding a guess, Maybe the vehicle suffered it'd mechanical problems because of the additional strain of towing the trailer. IMHO

I think Des is spot on.
Pretty rare to breaking diffs out in the desert - even the lightweight ones that go into the Toyotas.

Seen a couple of vehicles with bent chassis from towing camper trailers over the dunes too.

I guess either way it goes the trailer is prety useless without the vehicle to tow it....

Just reread the first post . If he wasn't using the lockers the right way (ie , disengage before turning to far right or left ) , then of coarse he's going to blow a diff . Wonder how much time he's had in fore wheel drive .

The Prados (120s at least) are notorius for blowing the rear diffs phil My sisters and BIL blew theres (not towing ) when it was barely a year old and there have been quite a few others

Davoe,
Yeah, The 95series would bust mostly front diffs, so Toyota upgraded the front diff on the 120series, so now they mostly bust rear diffs - the extra horses with the Petrol motor probably doesn't help. Its pretty hard to bust diffs on sand, and IMO lockers are useless in the desert - so I'd guess that Errol is correct in guessing the lockers spent too much time locked.

Don't worry about me I've been up since 4am.
I guess that I'm just a little upset that I have just spent nearly $30K on an offroad camper trailer and now you tell me that I can't take it across the Simpson.

The salesman promised that I could!

I realise that people do take trailers across and it is a risk, but if ever I do one day gt the chance to see the Simpson, I'll just take a swag.

cheers

Pom, I'm no expert on the Desert but I've also known numerous people who have taken trailers across the desert not that I agree with them doing so mainly because of the damage that they do to the track which makes it more difficult for the following travellers.. You may have realised that it is very early in the season and the tops of the dunes will be knocked off a bit by vehicles travelling on them. Later in the season when it is like Pitt St or wherever you come from, the dunes may not be as challenging as they are now. Mind you a big blow could change it all back again.

Pitt Street, I left it behind over two years ago, escaped the city for a mining town in Far North SA. THe Simpson so near yet still so far with work commitments.

cheers

When you talk about damging the track ask this question.

How much damage will 4 ton loaded onto 2 axles do? How much damage will the same 4 ton loaded onto 3 axles do?

I met a guy on Cape York who couldn't understand how he was getting bogged in places where I just drov through towing the trailer. Answer he had 4 ton on 2 axles.

Duncs

The same 4 ton on 4 axles, even better!!

;-)))

If "Getting an off road towing capacity from vehicle manufacturers is an interesting exercise", then how did you come to the conclusion that "NONE of the commonly available 4wd's have an OFF ROAD towing capacity high enough to tow most of the 'off road' camper trailers on the market off road".

It might sound as though I'm trying to take a shot at you here, but I'm just interested in FACTS ......so could you please tell us how you came to this conclusion and what the off-road towing capacity of the most common 4WD's are?

Cheers ...... Geoff

I can give some facts on the Discovery Series 1.

Figures are Onroad/Offroad
Unbraked trailers: 750kg/500kg
Trailers with overrun brakes: 3500kg/1000kg

I've got no idea what camper trailers weigh, I just thought I'd check to see if I could find the figures after reading this post. These come from the workshop manual.

Pete

Thanks for the input Pete. Most hard floor off road trailers weigh well in excess of the 1000 kg when fully loaded, so this would make the Disco Series I unsuitable for this task. Wonder how many owners realize this!!

Now I'm interested in what "traveller2" has to say.

Cheers .... Geoff

I tried to get the off road towing capacities for about 1/2 a dozen vehicles about ten years ago that I was considering buying at the time.
Landrover was the only one who could tell me and as Pavo said it was in the manual. Drew a blank at Toyota and Nissan, eventually after much digging Toyota suggested that it would be roughly equal to the unbraked towing capacity.
Pavo most of the 'fully equipped' campers weigh in the region of 1500kg's or more unloaded!

Interesting. There would be a fair amount of load on drivetrain components in low range, let alone dragging a trailer through sand (or over/through anything that adds even more load), right? Is that why the off-road figure is considerably lower?

I suppose what I'm asking is, is the figure lower for offroad because the huge increase in drivetrain component strain or safety? Now that I'm thinking about it, surely it's for both safety and the limits of the drivetrain.

Pete

Toyota does and will give you the the weights if you ask , EG: 80 series factory turbo diesel auto has an allowable all up weight factor of 5395kg being the TOTAL weight of the fully laden vehicle and trailer off road or on ,exceed that weight and all bets are off.

Alloyc/t the off road towing capacities are always much lower than the on road capacities, your figure would be right for road use but much less for off road.
I went straight to a contact in Toyota Australia on the tech side and could not get any figures on paper.
The only figures I could get at the time were from a military spec that Toyota put out for the 75 series utes which suggested a figure of 750kgs 'cross country' with brakes.
This was in the late eighties and the figure was reduced to 500kgs with the post 1990 75's with the little front diff.
I'd suggest that a wagon might be even less as they have a far smaller payload capacity.

Geoff
As I said it is very hard, nigh on impossible to get a definite figure out of some of the manufacturers re the OR towing capacities and the ones that do it is usually because they have had to release them when competing for a military or govt contract.
The limitations would be due to drivetrain strength and vehicle mass. Anyone who has towed a trailer in rough country will tell you that even another 500kgs hanging off the back has a huge effect on the vehicle stability, brakes and power available especially in poor traction conditions.
We've towed a hard floor flip over camper which weighs less than 500kgs loaded all over Oz during the last 25 + years. From the deserts to the high country behind a troopy which usually weighs more than 3.5t and we have a healthy respect for where we can and cannot go with it. Some places that are fine when dry although hard work are an absolute no no when wet. Desert sand conditions often mean having to 'drive it like you stole it' which is too hard on both vehicle and trailer.
The best accessory anyone towing needs OR are another vehicle without a trailer ;-)). Seriously though the best thing is that the trailer be light enough to be able to be uncoupled by two people and moved out of the way to allow the vehicle to proceed, most campers these days weigh far too much to allow this to happen especially in sand.

Trak Shak Tare Weight 660kg. GVM 1100kg.

Duncs

I think that is an interesting point made about the towing capacity for off-road vehicles/camper trailers. Our previous Landrover 110 had an off-road towing limitation of 1,000kg; we had a Kimberely Kamper at that time which when loaded to our basic travelling requirements came in around 1,200kg minimum. Clearly, in the event of an accident it would almost certainly be cited as a contributing cause and all the insurance/liability issues associated with it.

As Traveller2 points out; there are some places you can take them, other places simply are not suitable.