Battery Charging when Camping

Submitted: Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 10:00
ThreadID: 45043 Views:7423 Replies:16 FollowUps:28
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Hello All
I have just joined as a member and this is my first post.
I have a 1995, Landcruiser GXL, Auto and Petrol powered. I tow an Ultimate Off Road camper and usually camp in State Forests and National Parks here in Southern Queensland. My vehicle has the usual wet cell starter battery and an AGM Full River DC90 for the vehicle accessories. The main accessory is our 39l Engel Fridge. The camper has a wet cell battery but it is only used to power the internal Fluro light for a couple of hours each evening. The internal fridge is powered by gas. My problem is that after a couple of days camping I need to recharge the AGM battery. The usual method is by going for a drive in the vehicle or by running the engine in place. Neither of these charging methods are really satisfactory. Now to the crux of the matter; do I purchase a Honda 10i/20i and a battery charger and use the 240v option or, do I purchase a Christie battery charger that uses the 12v option and can recharge batteries at up to 55amps. My own electrical knowledge can be comfortably written on the back of a postage stamp so I need some expert help. All help greatly appreciated.
Thank You
Brian
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Reply By: Member -Signman - Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 10:05

Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 10:05
In sunny Qld !! Why not a small solar panel ???
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Follow Up By: Voxson - Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 10:41

Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 10:41
Yeah true... I use 80watt solar which gives approx 4amps back into my system..
Which is more than an Engel...Double almost...
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 10:54

Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 10:54
But doesn't your engel run 24/7, while even in Qld, the sun goes down at night?
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Follow Up By: disco1942 - Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 11:07

Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 11:07
The original message says "The camper has a wet cell battery but it is only used to power the internal Fluro light for a couple of hours each evening."

PeterD
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 11:31

Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 11:31
PeterD,
Sentence before says its powering a 39 litre engel. This is separate to the gas fridge.
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Reply By: Grizzle - Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 10:21

Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 10:21
i have a Honda 20I but if you want it only for charging batteries the Christie would be the way.

Obviously the Gennie can be used for other things whilst the Christie is specific.

cheers

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Follow Up By: hl - Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 10:24

Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 10:24
The Christie is also MUCH noisier.
Cheers
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Follow Up By: Grizzle - Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 10:41

Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 10:41
Good point!!

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Reply By: Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators - Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 10:42

Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 10:42
If you are not in a hurry then wait for our 50A petrol charger, a lot quieter.



The other option is a solar set up around 100W.

Have you read the new Caravan & Camper Battery Charging article ?

Battery Articles

Regards

Derek.
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Follow Up By: Member - Brian A (QLD) - Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 13:08

Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 13:08
Hi Derek
Thanks for that. The 50 Amp battery charger looks good.
Brian
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Follow Up By: LCRUZA (VIC) - Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 13:30

Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 13:30
When will they be available and approx cost??

Ron
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Follow Up By: Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators - Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 13:44

Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 13:44
60days and RRP $695.00

Regards

Derek.
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Follow Up By: downtools - Friday, May 04, 2007 at 08:43

Friday, May 04, 2007 at 08:43
G'day Derek,

I bought a 20amp "smart charger" from you some time ago, fantastic for keeping boat, aux batteries topped up at home etc.

Can you tell me and the folk here, if I took it camping with our honda 10i, what would be the approximate charging rate in amps during the "absorption, orange light" phase?
Is there enough current flowing to the battery to make it worthwhile running the gennie?

I know that during the "bulk" phase that the battery would receiving a worthwhile boost and during the "float" stage it would be a waste of time and fuel in the gennie. Watdoyareccon?

Cheers Nifty.
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Friday, May 04, 2007 at 08:47

Friday, May 04, 2007 at 08:47
Hello Derek, have you any specs on the Sidewinder ??

Is it quiet ?? Are the output amps selectable ??
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Follow Up By: Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators - Friday, May 04, 2007 at 09:31

Friday, May 04, 2007 at 09:31
Hi downtools

I would need to know battery size, type and amp hour capacity.

It is a very hard question to answer. I usually just run the Honda until the bulk light goes off and then charge the battery on mains when I get home.

Have a look at the graph.



Regards

Derek.
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Follow Up By: Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators - Friday, May 04, 2007 at 09:33

Friday, May 04, 2007 at 09:33
Hi Gronk

Features:
* 0~50amp charge rate, you can set different charge rate according to the battery capacity.
* Short circuit and over voltage protected.
* Super bright LED amp meter display, for charging indication.
* Lightweight, weighing only 14kg.
* High current Leads, 3m long with alligator clamps.

Ideal uses:
* Farmers can supply enough charge in as little as 5minutes to start machinery.
* Campers can run car fridges for 24 hours and charge their batteries in as little as 1 hour.
* 12 Volt lighting or other appliances can be powered in emergency situations.
* Ideal for the marine industry, backup for solar powered sites, emergency services, electromotion

earthmoving contractors, mobile mechanics, or anyone working in the outback.



Technical specifications



Model
SW50A

DC voltage (V)
12

DC current (A)
0~50

Max voltage (Low) (V)
14.5

Max voltage (High) (V)
15.5

Voltage cut out (V)
18

Rated speed (rpm)
5500

Fuel tank capacity (L)
2.6

Continuous running time (hr)
4.0 (at rated load)

Noise level dB(A)/7m
60~65 (zero load~full load)

Dimension (L×W×H)(mm)
402×255×305

Packing size (L×W×H)(mm)
480×275×430

Net/Gross weight (kg)
14/16

Engine model
GS143F

Engine type
Single cylinder, 4-stroke, OHV

Displacement (cc)
53.5

Rated power kW (HP)
1.3 (1.77)

Rated speed (rpm)
5500

Ignition system
T.C.I.

Starting system
Recoil starter

Fuel type
Automotive unleaded gasoline

Fuel consumption (g/KW*h)
420

Lube oil
SAE15W40 (above CC grade)

Low oil pressure alarm system
With

Option colour
Red



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Follow Up By: LCRUZA (VIC) - Friday, May 04, 2007 at 11:01

Friday, May 04, 2007 at 11:01
Does it have smart charging or just like an alternator regulator?

Ron
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Follow Up By: Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators - Friday, May 04, 2007 at 11:10

Friday, May 04, 2007 at 11:10
Hi Ron

I am waiting for the charge graph.

It is 2 stage 80/20 but don't have the graph yet.

Regards

Derek.
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Reply By: Transient - Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 10:47

Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 10:47
Get a gennie (Honda or Yamaha EF1000) and then you can run the fridge from that as well as charge your batteries.
I'm glad I ain't too scared to be lazy
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Follow Up By: Muddy doe (SA) - Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 20:36

Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 20:36
Yes,

A point that many overlook! While generator is running it is not only recharging your battery (via 240v charger of your choice) but is also running your fridge (provided your fridge accepts 240v and you did not leave the adapter at home). So no load on battery while charging. Solar usually only charges battery but battery is still running fridge so solar has to work harder to keep up.

Can also run a charger for laptop and other devices off genny as well.

Muddy
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Reply By: Outa Bounds - Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 10:47

Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 10:47
Hi Brian, We were pretty much in a similar situation as yourself. We decided to get the honda 10i genny as we could see it being a lot quieter and more versatile than a christie, we could take powertools along (not likely but we can). At the same time it would take longer to charge batteries than a christie would. Although as I've been researching it seems that it's best not to charge deep cycle batteries quickly anyway - this may depend on what batteries you are using though.

At the moment I'm trying to figure out what the best charger is to buy to use in conjunction with the generator so you may find my post 44959 interesting reading if you decide to go with the genny option and need a charger.

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Follow Up By: Member - Brian A (QLD) - Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 14:56

Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 14:56
Hi
Just read your recommended post! Now I really have some homework to do!
Thanks again
Brian
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Follow Up By: Outa Bounds - Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 15:11

Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 15:11
Ha ha, yes it's quite a thread!

Robin has given me a lot of great advice.

I've pretty much decided on the Durst BCS-1215B with the EPS 1214 a close second I reckon. Unless of course I change my mind which is a womans prerogative (if that's the right word?).

I also found some very useful and easy to understand information from this website.

Site Link
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Reply By: Robin - Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 11:34

Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 11:34
Hi Brian

You have picked a hot topic for your first post.

A charger like the christie is just like your car anyway (it is a motor with a car alternator) - so why carry a second unit ? The car will do the same thing, espically if you can run it at a fast idle. It will use a little more petrol but you will remain way out in front over the upfront cost of a good gennie.

Note - I believe the christie is only rated for up to N70 size batteries , check this out if you go down that path.

For many reasons including independance a Honda 10i and equivalents can be a wise choice , espically if backed up with a charger as per post Outa refers to.

It allows you to run fridge very cold from 240v whilst charging batteries ,further saving the batteries.

Provides you means of recovery if you camp alone particularly as you have an auto.

One extra thing , a charger for the gennie is a different product than a 12V supply.

We use a 12v supply module ($99) which can supply heavy currents to devices like 12v stoves etc and provides a backup means of charging the battery should a main charger fail.

This approach allows one to have two lower costs products instead of a single less functional item.

Robin Miller



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Follow Up By: hl - Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 12:38

Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 12:38
There is a slight but important difference with the Christie vs Car engine. The Christie allows for the regulator to be turned off and it will put as much in the battery as it will take, i.e. it will maintain a much higher charge rate than running the car engine would. So, at least theoretically, you can bring up an 80 Ah battery in about 1 hour to nearly full charge.
Cheers
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Follow Up By: Robin - Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 12:51

Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 12:51
Hi Hl

True but dangerous Hl , unless you know what your doing.
You can do same trick to your car , however I've re-designed my cruise control to
allow manual idle control.

I'm thinking of all the recent posts about charging at no more than C4 etc and charging with high constant volts which I do.

C 1 and 55 amps straight in can be a real gasser ! (pun intended)

Robin Miller

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Follow Up By: hl - Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 12:57

Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 12:57
Yes, totally agree. That's probably reason why they are so noisy, so you don't leave them on for long enough to cook the battery.
Cheers
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Reply By: Member No 1- Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 16:07

Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 16:07
240v honda genny
you then have 240v for emergency at home
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Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 18:25

Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 18:25
Brian,

Your statement is that you "usually camp in State Forests and National Parks here in Southern Queensland".

In the case of National Parks, any investment in a Honda generator, or Christies charger, to charge your batteries will be "wasted". You CANNOT use a generator in a National Park, anywhere in Australia.

For this reason, you may be better off with a Solar Panel.
Your 39 litre Engel, being a little older than my 40 litre model, may use a few more amps to run it, but your 90 A/h battery should run the fridge for at least 3 days, unless you are running it flat out. (freezer)

My Engel _Affordable_Storage_Drawers.aspx a maximum of 2.7 amps (in practise much less) and my 40 watt solar panel puts back around 2.5 amps.

So a solar panel of 40 watt minimum, or an 80 watt panel if you want to be sure, should give you all you need.

Think very carefully and do some more research before you lock yourself into an expensive solution you can only use "sometimes".
Bill


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Follow Up By: Member - Matt M (ACT) - Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 20:31

Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 20:31
Sand Man,

Agree absolutely with the thrust of your post. Particularly if you are the sort of camper who likes to stop set up and stay away from driving, the solar panel works a treat. Our 80W panel in average to good conditions will run our 50l Waeco and a few lights indefinitely and it was a good choice for us.

One point though, The Bungles NP, for example, does have a section for gennies. So maybe not all NPs ban them? Busier ones in Southern QLD probably do though.

Matt.
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Follow Up By: Sand Man (SA) - Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 20:42

Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 20:42
GoodO matt,

I just wanted to ensure that Brian had all the information before he makes his choice.

I get byat present with the one 40 watt panel, but I can easily add another to double the output if I need to.

I'm not against Gennies, but a good sized solar panel, or panels, still work out cheaper and are easier to store. It would be a bummer if you spent $1600 on a gennie, then found you couldn't use it in your favorite camping spot.

The panels are very quiet aren't they:-)))
Bill


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Reply By: ROBLIA (QLD) - Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 18:48

Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 18:48
If there are not too many people in the Nat parks you can use them with the desretion of the Ranger.This is no different to that bloody stupid no ALCAHOL thread last night where people will take what they want when they want regardless of the laws & who they may upset
Bob.
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Reply By: Member - lyndon K (SA) - Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 20:36

Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 20:36
Hi Brian
I have a 80 amp christies charger, we are really happy with it!!. It chargers our 3 50 amp excide orbital AGM's in 1.5hrs. The 55 amp model is VERY noisy! Listen to it before you buy!. The 80 amp is dearer, bigger, but much quieter.
Any info you would like re this drop me a line.
Regards Lyndon
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Reply By: Gronk - Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 23:54

Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 23:54
The only thing wrong with a solar panel is the length of lead needed to run from the CT ( which is parked in the nice shade ) out into the sunny area, wherever that may be ??

Or in a forest where there maybe no or little sun !!
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Reply By: Outa Bounds - Friday, May 04, 2007 at 07:53

Friday, May 04, 2007 at 07:53
Ha ha, it's a pity the honda generators are so bright, you may have to pain it black if you plan to operate in stealth!

Really I'm sure people would get more annoyed if you were to start up the old diesel car engine to recharge your batteries!

Obviously the generator rule (if it is an Aus wide rule) is only heavily enforced with signage and the like in a few select parks - perhaps ones most frequented by citi folk?

The first I've come across the fact that they are not allowed anywhere full stop is on this forum. I live in NSW at the moment and have not seen any such notices at the national parks surrounding Cobar.

I suppose it would certainly pay to check with the rangers that manage your favorite spots. I'm sure you can get away with it but all it takes is one annoyed person who's camping near you.

If only solar cells were alot more efficient at converting the suns energy into power!
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Follow Up By: Robin - Friday, May 04, 2007 at 08:44

Friday, May 04, 2007 at 08:44
"Really I'm sure people would get more annoyed if you were to start up the old diesel car engine to recharge your batteries! "

Hi Outa

This is a good point in that in this practical world one often needs work arounds.

Running the car gets around the Gennie problem mostly, backed up with a low cost inverter.
Also one of several reasons why we use a lower noise petrol car.

Robin Miller
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Friday, May 04, 2007 at 08:56

Friday, May 04, 2007 at 08:56
I would run a gennie in a nat park........only if I was far enough away not to annoy anybody else !!

As far as running a car ( petrol or diesel )........what a pain to have to idle for long periods to try and get some charge into a batt ( not to mention the harm you may be doing to the engine )

And you might want to sit around and relax, not be going for a drive just to recharge your batts !!

Sounds like solar is the way to go !! But how do you get sun thru the trees to your nice shady spot and how do you get the cost down to a respectable price ??
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Follow Up By: Member - Matt M (ACT) - Friday, May 04, 2007 at 09:21

Friday, May 04, 2007 at 09:21
Gronk,

Depends on your definition of respectable price. $800-900 should see you set up with a reasonable (80W or so) panel and regulator. Certainly cheaper than a decent gennie, but not the range of uses if that is what you need. Setting up a system to charge from the car is certainly the cheapest way to go, but again it depends on your style of camping. Personally, once we are set up, I like to stay out of the car, but each to their own.

As for the shade, yep its an issue (as are rainy overcast days). I have several lengths of cable with good quality connectors that gives the panel a fair range from the camper. Depending on the campsite, I set it up with the shortest cable required to get the panel into full sun.

Matt.

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Follow Up By: Robin - Friday, May 04, 2007 at 09:39

Friday, May 04, 2007 at 09:39
Hi Gonk

Its not as cheap but its no pain to run engine in my car.

Its

1/ Quieter than your Honda generators
2/ Generates more power in both 12v or 240 via my inverter.
3/ Causes no damage - I drive to work and 30% of drive time is idling at lights.
4/ Provides warmth if required
5/ is legal and gets around gen rules in a way that keeps everyone happy.
6 / Reduces need for other camping equipment
7/ Keeps oil in car warm - promoting longer engine life.

Gee ! you can even get an engine turn off timer for it.

Hold on - don't tell anybody this ...... till I patent the idea.

Robin Miller


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Reply By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Friday, May 04, 2007 at 08:58

Friday, May 04, 2007 at 08:58
All the responses thus far have concentrated on the charging aspect.

Why not also consider better utilisation of the battery in the Ulti? It sits there doing SFA (except for lights and water pump maybe). Why not make up a heavy lead from the 12 pin plug on the camper (a couple of female lugs) to run back to the truck plug.

If it's wired the same as mine, your camper battery should be connected to the 2nd battery in the truck.

Hope this makes sense.
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Reply By: Mike Harding - Friday, May 04, 2007 at 16:57

Friday, May 04, 2007 at 16:57
Small nuclear reactor or a fuel cell.

Failing either of those... a Kmart or Jaycar 3 stage charger ($100) and a GMC $98 generator, providing you won't be annoying others by the noise for a couple of hours per day.

This subject _has_ been discussed 798765439865108844 times before.

Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: Muddy doe (SA) - Friday, May 04, 2007 at 18:38

Friday, May 04, 2007 at 18:38
Mike,

You are a pretty techno sort of guy. Just what IS that latest on fuel cell technology? Have heard various things ranging right up to small practical replacements for a 1-2Kva genset being not too far away. Just add water!

Not too sure about carrying around a nuclear reactor though!!!

Cheers
Muddy
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Reply By: Members - Chris/Lindsay (VIC) - Saturday, May 05, 2007 at 09:10

Saturday, May 05, 2007 at 09:10
Hi Brian. You know I do sympathise with your dilemma but I often have a bit of a chuckle about how much stuff we seem to need to rough it! I hope you find your answers but please don't camp next to us with a generator. Many years ago we camped at Geikie Gorge. At 9pm all the generators had to go off. You should have heard the cheering reverberate through the camp. I do realize they are quieter nowadays. Anyway welcome to the forum and happy travels. Chris.
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Reply By: waynet - Monday, May 07, 2007 at 00:46

Monday, May 07, 2007 at 00:46
Hi Brian
Some of the answers seem to be moving away from your original question about camping in National Parks. The only option you have if you cannot run a generator is a solar panel, with your car as a backup. An 80 watt panel would be the minimum. If you have a fairly new Engel it will draw 2.7 amps when running. If you run it as a fridge(+4c) it will probably run for 10 to 12 hours in 24 hours ie. 27 to 32ah used per day. If your AGM battery is 100 ah you only have 50ah available to use( never run any type of battery below 50%), which is about 1.5 to 2 days before recharging is required. AGM batteries are undoubtedly the best way to go, both for start and auxiliary batteries, as they recharge much faster than other batteries and have a relatively long life if cared for properly. I have fitted a LINK 10 battery monitor to my auxiliary battery system and find it invaluable for keeping a check on the auxiliary battery system. Running the vehicle at a fast idle should only be used in emergencies, running a motor on "no load" can damage it. I prefer not to use a 240 volt generator in a camp because of the dangers and also they are are very inefficient compared to a 12 volt generator system such as the Christie or the Sidewinder which is becoming available from ABR. I made several generator systems nearly 20 years using a 3.5 Honda belt driving a 40 amp alternator and find it to be a very good system except in National Parks.The small Christie system is noisy because it is running at nearly 7000 rpm, the large system runs at 3500rpm. The sidewinder runs at 5500rpm so noise and engine wear at 5500 and 7000 rpm would probably be high. I hope this information will be of some help to you. Check out the ABR website for more good information.
Wayne
AnswerID: 238322

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