winches - a naive question

the number of times a winch (hand or motorized) has saved the day is many.
the number of times a winch has saved me when not with 4wd club, ie not trying difficult things when there is safety in numbers etc ---- once.
you don't mention whether you are going with others, when snatch straps are generally good enough or at least carry a tirfor if on your own.
if i had the spare money i would have one fitted.
if the choice was to upgrade the suspension and tyres or a winch i know which one i'd choose.

An alternate point of view....

You have purchased a brand new Nissan 4 x 4 and you don't know if you should buy a winch or not. Have you considered undertaking an of-road driver training course? If not, perhaps you should.

If you are travelling in a 4wd (or any vehicle for that matter) and whilst persuing recreational activities (holidays, travelling etc) you venture onto or into an area that imobilises the vehicle (mud, sand, terrain) because of a lack of ground appreciation (i.e. you haven't read and analysed the surroundings prior to venturing on) and your vehicle becomes imobilsed then as far as I'm concerned your next step in the process is recovery. To me that generally indicates one of the following:

Poor decision making on your part

Failure to travel on approved made roads or tracks

Failure or inability to interpret surface conditions

Failure to reduce tyre pressures

Failure to engage 4 wheel drive

Inappropriate vehicle choice for the intended purpose

Attempting to travel or negotiate areas that a prudent and intelligent person might choose otherwise (avoid) and then having to resort to such extreme measures indicates poor driving with an apparent lack of skills.

I know that I'll probably get a caning for my comments (not the first time) but my purpose is to suggest that you should think about your approach to driving and try to develop your skills to enable you to make the correct choices, road surface, terrain, speed, endurance, weight/load and perhaps finally equipment. Believe me, recovering a fully loaded (4 tonne+-) vehicle in stinking, sticky, slippery mud, or burning hot unforgiving dry sand is NOT fun. To me the object of the entire exercise of forward motion (driving and reaching my destination) is to avoid such delays. I'd rather take an extra hour or two in reaching my destination than simply charge on, become imobilisedand spend then next day or two extracating my vehicle plus the possibility of clutch, axle, transmission damage from stressing the works. It doesn't make for a fun time and beside that if your accompanied by your wife, by now you've most probably had to endure a never ending tongue lashing along the lines "I told you so. I told you not to come this way or go through the creek etc'. Sound familiar. Been there - done that, figure it's time for me to take control of my situation and try and make it happy and enjoyable one.

Four wheel drive vehicle manufacturers spend a fortune developing their products and subject them to extreme conditions to satisfy themselves as to the suitability of the equipment etc. They don't equally assess the buyers of their vehicles for such suitability hence many owners feel compelled to compensate by heaping loads of bolt-on equipment onto their vehicles often as a means or reassurence that they can cope with anything. W R O N G !! These are often the very people that get themselves into strife, carve up roads that are closed, enter into restricted areas, ignore road warning/condition signs, fail to plan their journey and in general give the legitimate four wheel drive fraternity a bad name and reputation.

Sorry to all you owners out there with all the recovery gear etc. Nothing personal just the view of someone who has had more than a fair share of self induced 'misfortune' over the years. I can do without it now. Believe me, it makes the entire trip a lot more enjoyable for all involved. Think about it.

A winch is an expensive, heavy, difficult to use, dangerous and unnecessary tool... until you're on your own and bogged.

My hand winch is still in unused condition but I always take it with me....

Mike Harding

For me a winch is pretty handy...........
But i must admit that my lockers take me into places that i sometimes cant back out of...
I wouldnt have a 4x4 without lockers and a winch,,,.......
Last year in early June we were coming back along the OTL Cape York and got talking to a guy and his girlfriend at Cockatoo Creek,,, he said he was waiting for hours and hours for someone to come along to pull him up the Northern bank of GUNSHOT,,,, he was in a standard GU and no matter what he did,,, he said he couldnt get up....
In that circumstance a winch would be a blessing.....
If you intend to travel on your own to these sorts of places i would fit a winch,,,, if you intend to keep in groups i would maybe forget about it....

I vote hand winch slow but will winch from any direction.

No a winch is not required if you are following the main tourist routes through Central Oz in the key touring season. In other words there will so many other people out there that in the most slight chance you do get stuck, all you'll need is a snatch & an extension strap to hook onto the next good Samariton. The main piece's of recovery equipment you'll actually use are a shovel, tyre gauge & a compressor. Some people even take their winches off when going up the desert country to save carrying the weight particually when travelling in a group.
DIO is on the money when he suggests if you know how to drive, a winch is not required. Remote or mid summer trips on your own are different as a timely recovery may just save a life.
Cheers Craig.............

You say you have a Nissan but did not mention which one??????? IMO If you have a Navara then all the recovery gear you can get your hands on the better..... I picked up 10 star pickets today to take on my next trip and it will be the last trip for this truck. It keeps letting me down. Am actually looking forward to all the problems this truck will be giving me. Watch this forum in August for the report. :)

daryl,
I'm with the brigade that says you should hardly ever need one, but that's true of 4wheel drive also. My view is that you have a winch for the same reason that you have the 4WD: because when you need it you really, really need it. that said, do you realise that a hi lift jack can double as a hand winch? Itr won't be quick, but you shouldn't need to do it very often, either.
nigel

Our winch is like insurance - we don't plan to need it, but wouldn't like to be caught without it if in need.

We don't mind helping others out but haven't needed to use the winch for others either. You never know what accidents may happen and when you will need someone else's help.

If we were still young, a hand winch might be an option, but not now.

We want to be well equipped to look after ourselves rather than rely on others.

I've only ever used my winch when I've gone out of my way to find places where it was likely to be required. It's sat on my Patrol for 3 years and been used less than a dozen times, all with my club or mates on steep and slippery tracks that were inevitabley going to cause someone to get stuck. I've never once come close to needing it on a touring type trip with the family because I avoid the places where it might be needed like the plague. However I wouldn't be without it becuase a wrong turn, an unexpected weather change, another vehicle in strife, whatever, means it might just be needed one day.

Patrolman Pat

Hey dnielsen.

I have devised a way to find out weather you need a winch or not.

Provided this is a family holiday.

If you drive up the center and turn left you would be going to Uluru or the Kimberley.

Neither of these places will require a winch.

If you turn right you will head across the Barkley, even if you go to Normanton you wont need a winch .

If you head down the East or West coast you wont need a winch.

Now I can't think of a place in these regions, were you will need a winch.

Now If anybody disagrees with me, they will put in the places you will need a winch, check these places against where your going, if your not going to any of these places you wont need a winch.

Cheers Steve.

I think of it this way.....

It is better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it........IMO, if your just doing the major tourist routes then possibly not really needed but if at any stage you wish to divert a little off the beaten track then it could make all the difference if stuck.....What price do you put on a life, $1500 for a winch is good security.....Or even a Tirfor at $400 can make all the difference....Good luck what ever you choose....

Daryl,
Can't remember my first trip bush, but in the 70's we crossed the Nullarbour 6 times in a Holden, 500 miles (that's 800kms) of sand and bulldust. Since then we've pretty well covered the country, the last 20 odd years in 4WD's. Done some dopey things in 2WD's, done some awesome stuff in 4WD's. Never needed a winch. In my humble opinion, they're an unnecessary expense. Get a quote for a winch installation - there's the price of the winch, winch bar, then suspension upgrade to handle the extra weight.

Im going back 20years but I used to work for a comany out of Alice Springs servicing generator sets located on any aboriginal settelments as far north as Katherine, west to Docker River south into SA and East into Qld, these service trips took 3 to 4 weeks at a time and the only vehicle we had was a standard 2wd holden rodeo ute with 200ltr drum of fuel, never got stuck once, hero? no, thats all the company would supply, but does go show that a winch is not really needed.
Chris