Is it Gazetted ?

Submitted: Saturday, May 26, 2007 at 15:45
ThreadID: 45920 Views:16780 Replies:8 FollowUps:2
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Was wandering if anyone could tell me how to find out if certain roads and tracks are 'gazetted rds' ?
As so much of this country has been given to farmers for 'agricultural use' I am sick of following tracks marked on maps and coming across gates with "private property", "no thru road" or "do not enter" signs on them or leading into what is obviously grazing country or worse still the gate is locked.
I realise farmers have some trouble with a minority leaving gates open and rubbish around or worse still, shooting, but that doesn't give them the right to lock the rest of out of what is most times 'leased' land.
The way I understand it, and please correct me if I'm wrong, they don't 'own' land they are leasing for grazing purposes, therefore it is not 'private property'.
I also understand that farmers must allow access via gazetted roads through leased land, problem is that most will try and bluff you by telling you that "that particular track" is not gazetted and runs through private property.
Now don't get me wrong, I have nothing against farmers, I grew up in the country, I would just like to know my rights re. accessing leased land and grazing country.
The ones I have been through I have always done the right thing and closed all gates, stuck to the track and never left behind rubish, I don't belive in shooting for sport so there is no problem there either, when I have come across either a farmer or farm house I make it a point to approach them and have a freindly chat, letting them know where I've ridden or driven from and re-assure them that everything has been left as found.
Sometimes I have wanted to go back to that track/area and aren't sure as to whether I am within my rights to ignore the "no through road" sign and enter without permision or not ?
So I guess what I am asking is,
A. Does anybody know the rules regarding this issue,
B. Does anybody know where to find out, whilst planning a trip, whether a track is gazetted or not,
C. If a track is marked on a map, with a name ie. "Billy goat track" does that mean that it is gazetted unless otherwise specified ?

There was a scenario a little while ago with some adventure riders coming across a locked gate to what they were sure was a gazetted road they were following, they didn't have enough fuel to turn back so they made a collective decision to unbolt the hinges and replace it once everyone was through, to continue on the short distance to the next town, once home they did some investigations and discovered that it was in fact a gazetted road.
Were they within their rights to do what they did?

Apparently 'Oziexplorer' digital maps has a section that tells you if certain tracks are gazetted, I don't run that map version as I find the magellan 'discover oz' more than sufficient for my use.
If anybody knows of a website that I can get the info to answer the above would be much appreciated.

Pezza
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Reply By: Member - Duncs - Saturday, May 26, 2007 at 17:05

Saturday, May 26, 2007 at 17:05
Well Pezza,

You have raised a very interesting question. One that unfortunately is not easily answered.

I believe, but am willing to be corrected, that the rules vary depending on the purpose of your visit. I remember a couple of years back on local radio in Broken Hill there was some discussion as to the rights of prospectors to enter land for the purpose of looking for minerals. My vision was of old Gary the Gold miner with his metal detector, but apparently prospectors can include the likes of BHP checking things out. From what I remember being said at the time there was little the farmer could do to prevent these people from entering and camping on his land. However the same farmer could refuse entry to people who just wanted to camp in the same area.

Whether the land is leased or freehold makes very little difference. The farmer who holds the lease or land title is responsible for the management of the land and has liabilities and entitlements under that title. For instance certain plants are protected no matter where they are growing. If someone went onto the farmers land and destroyed such a plant the farmer could find himself liable to a fine for the damage so caused. Under these circumstances I believe it is reasonable for the farmer to refuse entry. Locking a gate would be a reasonable way to indicate this.

Are roads shown on a map necessarily open to public use? No. There is a road shown in UBD Street Directory for Sydney which is named on the map and looks like any other road but is in fact a private driveway. Many station tracks are shown on maps, particularly those generated from aerial photos, these are not generally for public use. Many pubic roads pass through private property and have gates on them. These gates should obviously not be locked, but every now and then they end up that way. I would want to be very sure of my actions before I forced entry through such a gate.

I have also come across a locked gate on what I believed to be a public road. The lock had been fitted by a National Parks Ranger, and had a sign to that affect. I assumed I was wrong and went a different way. When I got home I contacted the National Parks Head Office and was told that the ranger in question had been warned about locking that gate and would be reprimanded again concerning his actions. The road that ranger was locking off was actually State Forest and he had no right to control access in any way. So it's not just farmers.

It would be great if there was some way of easily recognising what was public, what was private and what was prohibited. But don't hold your breath. I find that it is best to contact property owners along your planned route before you set off. Most are obliging if you approach politely. The ones that have refused me entry have been happy to explain why. I believe it is reasonable to ask but once again be polite.

Duncs

AnswerID: 242555

Follow Up By: Charlie - Saturday, May 26, 2007 at 17:51

Saturday, May 26, 2007 at 17:51
The road reserve is usually marked on a topo map as dashed lines, the problem is unless someone goes through with a bulldoze and constructed an actual road then bush tracks tend wander outside the reserve at which point trespassing.

Leaving aside the legal argument in actual practice the road really belongs to the people who pay the maintenance, if the local council don’t want to pay for its upkeep the landowner is often unsympathetic to others using it but conversely if the council are paying for the upkeep they will lean on the landholder for access even if the roads legal status is a bit uncertain.

Charlie
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FollowupID: 503514

Reply By: Oldsquizzy (Kununurra) - Saturday, May 26, 2007 at 17:30

Saturday, May 26, 2007 at 17:30
One way would be to ask your state Auto club. As with the RAC. A contractor only has to recover, or tow when on a gazetted road all other is at there discretion.
AnswerID: 242558

Reply By: navaraman - Saturday, May 26, 2007 at 17:36

Saturday, May 26, 2007 at 17:36
Interesting question Pezza. a few weeks back I was taking a road from Megalong Valley to Katoomba. The road came up on my Navman as the shortest route back, and was shown in the tourist brochure as a road and looked like a road on my topo maps. I drove through two gates without a problem but a third gate was padlocked so we had to turn back. As we got back to the main road we came across one of the property owners and she reckoned it had never been a public road to the best of her knowledge.There were lots of other roads and tracks in the area with private property signs etc, this was unsigned. It was only a slight inconvenience to us but had we been low on fuel, escaping a bush fire or something things could have been worse.

Patrolman Pat
AnswerID: 242559

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Saturday, May 26, 2007 at 18:23

Saturday, May 26, 2007 at 18:23
In South Australia, only public roads are shown on the RAA's "Outback SA" roadmap.

And the following link may also help:
Public Access to Pastoral Land
AnswerID: 242571

Reply By: Oldsquizzy (Kununurra) - Saturday, May 26, 2007 at 18:46

Saturday, May 26, 2007 at 18:46
(2) Subject to this Act, a person may, on giving oral or written notice to the lessee, travel across pastoral land
(otherwise than on a public access route) by any means other than a motor vehicle, a horse or a camel and, in the course of so travelling, camp temporarily on the land.

(3) Subject to this Act, a person may, with the consent of the lessee or the Minister, travel across pastoral land (otherwise than on a public access route) by means of a motor vehicle, a horse or a camel and, in the course of so travelling, camp temporarily on the land.

Lol. So according to the act if you write and TELL or just tell the lessee you can cross pastoral land, Just not in a motor vehicle, horse or camel...So you would have to walk.
But if you ask and get permission you can drive or ride. Sounds fair.
AnswerID: 242577

Follow Up By: Member - Tony J (NSW) - Saturday, May 26, 2007 at 19:17

Saturday, May 26, 2007 at 19:17
" Just not in a motor vehicle, horse or camel...So you would have to walk. " - What about on a donkey or ass???
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FollowupID: 503540

Reply By: Member - Mike DID - Saturday, May 26, 2007 at 19:52

Saturday, May 26, 2007 at 19:52
A Cadastral Map shows land ownership and NSW Govt lets you look at it for free.

Go to imagery.maps.nsw.gov.au/

Then click on "Address" under "Take me to a "

then enter 16A DURAL STREET HORNSBY

then click on GET RESULTS then click on the address when it comes up.

The red line shows the the extent of the block - which extends totally across Quarry St !

Do the same for No18.

Try doing a search for any numbers in Quarry St, Hornsby !!!

It seems Quarry Rd is an easement on private property ! I wonder if the No Parking signs have validity if it isn't a gazetted road ?

Mike
AnswerID: 242592

Reply By: V8Diesel - Sunday, May 27, 2007 at 09:15

Sunday, May 27, 2007 at 09:15
Good question. When I was involved with exploration for the Government we went anywhere and everywhere. I was always expecting to be shot but never had a problem. (actually a mad old dogger threatened to shoot me once but apparently 'he does that to everybody')

I'm still uncertain if a miners right is all you need.
AnswerID: 242647

Reply By: Member - Bruce and Anne - Sunday, May 27, 2007 at 13:40

Sunday, May 27, 2007 at 13:40
On the Hema map of Western Qld it shows a few tracks marked as "Private Road", so by seeing that you would naturally think all other tracks on this map are open.
I am trying to sort a route out at the moment between Dawson Dev Rd and Alpha CW Qld, best bet for me to ring property owner/s and ask.
Cheers Bruce
AnswerID: 242687

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