The Porsche or the Patrol ?

Submitted: Monday, May 28, 2007 at 12:59
ThreadID: 45982 Views:5361 Replies:17 FollowUps:21
This Thread has been Archived
Specifying a new car is serious business for us and for the second
time now nothing has matched the Patrol's for our needs.

The current 5yo 4800 Patrol we have is a real sportscar amongst big wagons
and a tough act to follow, but will not leave any stone unturned in
search for something better.
Not really interested here in make, just geniune suitability to do the job.

I've watched as a relative has taken a Porsche Cayenne 4wd to Cape York
, Canning the steepest flinders closed road sections, and all sorts of places
and wondered ?

Its perhaps not the first car one would look at but it has some serious atributes
including towing stability.

A rare opportunity came along recently to have a new one of these big wagons
for a week and this is what we found.

Believe me, a week is needed with this car, on first drive the power
handling and sheer ability to create its own hole anywhere in a traffic stream
is awe inspiring. Haven't felt anything as good since I first took a GU 4800
into traffic years ago, and the engine can get this 2.4T wagon to 100kmh in
under 6 secs whereas my petrol Patrol takes 11 secs almost.

The Porsche has a 283kw V8, wide track , reasonable ground clearance
and some traction aids which go well beyond the electronic brake controls
of normal cars.
But an overiding critera for me is fundamental stability. Patrols are the
best normal vehicles in this area but the Porsche matches them with a 48 degree
tip over angle, using a slighter shorter but wider wheelbase meaning that the
area enclosed by the wheels is roughly the same.

I couldn't personnaly check for ultimate ability up a rough track but can
say with confidence that a double difflocked Patrol has the edge here, and
also wins on wading ability.
The model Porsche I drove was not fitted with auto-controlled rollbar option
which increases wheel travel, however the Porsche can beat the Patrol by
climbing a genuine 45 degree slope.
Unbelieveably you can just take your foot off accelerator pedal on an
impossible to stand up on slope, get out of the car, take some photo's
and get back in whilst car hangs there all by itself, and then take off
cleanly without ever touching the foot operated handbrake.
(Wonder what happens if fuel ran out)

On a ramp the Patrol wins on articulation.

On back roads and mild 4wd tracks the Cayenne eats the Patrol even with its
standard 255/45/18 road tyres.
Suprisingly after laying down 500km the Porsche actually used less fuel at
an average of 15lt/100km than the Patrol (16.5).

The Patrol wins on storage space and packing ability, however the Cayenne can
carry eleven jerries of fuel internally.

In touring mode its another no contest - the Porsche wins everwhere from
quiet comfort to large screen sat-nav you can actually read in daytime, it
automatically turns on lights, wipers etc.

After a week though the gloss does start to come off the Porsche and you
begin to notice little things like the heavier steering , the fact that
despite having twin sunvisors per seat , a little gap is left for sun
to hit you in the eyes from near the B-pillar (Pajero's have little plastic slide
that stops this) , and that this is a big car in which you feel more disconnected
from the road than in a Patrol.

Service ability wise Patrols have proved to be more reliable and parts
and the ability to be fixed outback clearly favours a Patrol.

These cars are expensive ($150,000) but not stupidly so considering price of
some cruisers etc, and are starting to come onto second hand market.

If they really were superior everywhere then they would be a consideration
but in some areas that count a Patrol is better and so I will remember
it with admiration and stick with Patrol for now even though I
now no that even a 185kw 4800 GU could still definitately make use of another 100kw.

Robin Miller
Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: Member -Signman - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 13:22

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 13:22
What was that 'cut and pasted' from???
AnswerID: 242892

Follow Up By: PatNav - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 20:42

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 20:42
Hi guys
GEEE i thought i had prob's

will i go the navara or the GQ patrol or a 2000 PRADO????
LOL LOL
good luck with your choice

Cheers
0
FollowupID: 504007

Reply By: Gerhardp1 - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 13:38

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 13:38
You can have almost the same thing for much less money in the Touareg.

Even with the top spec diesel, it's around $125,000, and the 3.0 diesel is under 90,000.

If the power/torque is not enough with these two, you can put a chip in.

When you move out of the unrefined Patrol class of vehicle and into the "refined" class, you can also add Audi, Volvo, Range Rover, BMW, and maybe a few others which will all outperform your Patrol in the areas the Porsch/Touareg do,..... except in water fording, tyre availability, and roadside fixability.

You may find yourself in serious bother when the new Patrol hits, whenever that is. It's likely to be much softer than the current ones. So then you'll have to buy the Porsche..........

AnswerID: 242895

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 14:00

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 14:00
Hi Gerhardp1

The Porsche experience has made me now think Touareg is worth re-considering , as you suggest, don't need any more power than my Patrols got really and they do have a good diesel.

Friends have various range rovers, and technically great, but they break easily and I've had to tow a couple so don't think I'd go down that path.

Robin Miller
0
FollowupID: 503934

Reply By: True Blue - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 13:43

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 13:43
Good thread Robin, enjoyable to read.

The president of our 4wd club a few years ago took a dealer up on an opportunity to take one of his Porsche Cayenne turbo V8's away for a weekend in the Vic High Country. He was the trip leader and it included some very serious low range work.
He did manage to destroy one (only one) of it's unsuitable rubber, but he absolutely hated giving it back and was still in a daze for the next week just analysing what he had experienced with the Porsche. He said he would buy one in an instant if he could have afforded it.

I"m sure it wasn't cut and pasted, but was a a well written seat of the pants report on the Porsche.

Robin, how did it feel to hope back into the Patrol? Could you instantly relate to where the extra money for the Porsche was justified?

I've always wished I had the courage to take one of the twin turbo diesel V10 Toureag's for a weekend test drive, but I wouldn't have had the discipline to hand it back. I probably would have put a deposit on it and then started ducking out of the way of cut lunches when I got home.

True Blue.
AnswerID: 242899

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 13:56

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 13:56
Hi True Blue

May well have been one of my family members that supplied the Porsche for that trip .

Tyres aside - the Porsche was remarkably good , but a lot harder than my Patrol (which Ihave removed rear roll bar from).

I found this senerio more difficult than I would have thought - must admit my first reactions were this is a waste of time as far as real 4wding / touring goes , but
hey why not try , its not costing me.

However it became apparent after a couple of days that it was a seriously capable car , and anywhere except really hard stuff where I don't hesitate to lock'em all and drag chassis over something , that this Porsche could make a viable car.

Perhaps I'm kidding myself , but the experience was not to be missed !

I will re-consider Toureag True Blue, which I also dismissed without checking out.

Robin Miller

0
FollowupID: 503929

Follow Up By: True Blue - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 14:07

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 14:07
Robin, when our Pres. told the boys what he was driving on the h/country trip they all laughed at him. And indeed, he himself tried desperately to embarass the dealer by deliberately placing the vehicle in the most difficult of situations but the Porsche handled it all with ease. Instead of the Porsche presenting itself as some sort of source of amusement by the end of the trip, tyres aside, it had won them all over.

This was a couple of years back and those that were on the trip still talk about it.

I think we should organise a Toureag and go up to the Ruffy store for lunch.

True Blue.
0
FollowupID: 503938

Follow Up By: Gerhardp1 - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 14:15

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 14:15
Neither of you two are allowed to have the VW Touareg until you learn to spell it...

0
FollowupID: 503940

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 15:29

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 15:29
Ah, the Ruffy Produce store True Blue - I'll be there this weekend, but why wasn't I there saturday taking in the beautiful local wines ,cheeses and soyacinno's in the brillant sunshine after driving up a track.

Instead I went to the motocross track and my son's YZ50f disintergrated at 14,000rpm taking out the bigend/concord/cylinder barrel/crankshaft journal/timing chain/valves and I haven't even gotten up the courage to split the cases are see whats left of the gearbox - think I might be forgetting the Cayenne for a while,
but Gerphardp1 given us permission to go with a Touareg now that I know how to spell it and this could save a few now necessary dollars.

Robin Miller
0
FollowupID: 503955

Reply By: Andrew from Vivid Adventures - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 14:04

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 14:04
Saw a couple of Audi Q7s doing the Gibb River Road ten days or so ago... seemed to be burning up the bitumen... I mean bulldust, sorry.

They were on the highway itself, not heading up to Kalumburu or Plateau or anything really interesting and with the exception of the remaining few muddy sections and the rutted areas from the traffic during and after the rain, it was pretty tame, but it did make me wonder where they were headed, what the objective of the trip was, and how capable they might have been.
AnswerID: 242906

Follow Up By: Gerhardp1 - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 14:22

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 14:22
I am pretty sure the Cayenne/Touareg/Q7 share the same platform, and the Touareg/Q7 have the same basic 3.0 V6 diesel. Probably the transmissions & drivelines are the same as well.

The Q7 is extremely capable, but like all the luvly new stuff you can't fix it on the roadside and they don't have snorkels available so water fording is always a limitation.

Also not sure if you can put say 16" wheels with offroad rubber as they probably wouldn't fit over the brakes.
0
FollowupID: 503942

Follow Up By: Member - JohnR (Vic)&Moses - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 18:41

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 18:41
Andrew, a funny story I heard from a cousin about a friend driving his chipped Q7 down the motorway in the UK. He had a Suzuki 1100 GSR or something like that all over the back of his car so eased the accelerator up to 180 mph at a rocket paced urge. The bike dropped way back and the hand signals from the biker were a strong thumbs up.

The driver pulled over at the roadside to chat with the biker and the biker was just so impressed with the perfomance. They have point to point cameras there as we have in many places now of course, so the stop was wise. It amazed the Audi owner that the biker addressed him as Sir he was just so impressed.

The biker then was asked why he was using the term Sir to which he responded "well we have had a little fun have't we Sir?" then "I am an off-duty police officer"

He was lucky on that occasion where cameras now abound as here, it was an off-duty officer with a sense of humour and also wonder at a 3 litre diesel with rocket performance.
0
FollowupID: 503983

Reply By: Trevor R (QLD) - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 14:20

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 14:20
Look at a blower for your GU and the 100kw you are missing would instantly appear for a lot less than the 150,000 asking price of the Porsche.

I rekon the 4.8 Patrol would be a top base to do a really fast street and seriously capable offroader.

Cheers, Trevor.
AnswerID: 242907

Follow Up By: Member - stefan P (NSW) - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 14:39

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 14:39
thats right.....only got to see what the arab's do with their 4.8's

patrol v lambo

Cheers Stefan
0
FollowupID: 503943

Follow Up By: Gerhardp1 - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 14:50

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 14:50
But the Nissan lunched itself .......
0
FollowupID: 503945

Follow Up By: Member - stefan P (NSW) - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 15:11

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 15:11
but it won ;)
0
FollowupID: 503950

Reply By: TerraFirma - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 14:37

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 14:37
Robin, Shouldn't this thread wait for the Friday funnies..? I can't believe you are comparing these 2 vehicles , in fact has has anyone..? The Cayenne is not designed in the same marketplace nor the same application as the Patrol. You will be replacing tyres on the Cayenne every 20,000km's and your tyre bill will be huge. Comeon Robin why don't throw in the Range Rover as well and instead of Cape York we make it the Toorak Hills..!
AnswerID: 242913

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 14:55

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 14:55
Hi Terra

I've embrassed the hell out of Rover dealers before , but I was specifically told by Porsche people that ,tyres aside ,the Cayenne could take on my specific Patrol in the bush and not be shamed , I'm am happy the Patrol is just in front - but this advantage has been reduced to just a few uncommon situations.

Robin Miller
0
FollowupID: 503947

Follow Up By: Member - AVA 191 (QLD) - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 16:21

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 16:21
Is that the normal tyres you have to keep replacing, or the space saver spare under the bonnet. How many of these would you need on the Gibb River Road I wonder?

If I remember correctly, you have to pump up the space saver spare yourself, in the lower spec Touareg, b4 you can fit it to the vehicle. I always manage to get my flats in the rain, that's a PITA.

Interesting story though.
0
FollowupID: 503963

Follow Up By: TerraFirma - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 16:39

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 16:39
OK Robin, Perhaps when we compare the Patrol vs Cayenne we should include $$$. If money is no object and I mean no object you would take the Cayenne all day long, with some changes to the vehicle to suit. If money is an object and it is tight you couldn't serioulsy consider the Cayenne because it's bad enough taking a brand new Patrol or Cruiser bush and worrying about a few scratches and bumps, but a Cayenne, whoa...? No seree I ain't watching my $150k Porsche turn into an $80k Porsche after 1 or 2 trips to Cape York..! Money is a fundamental factor when comparing the 2 vehicles, the fact that you are even comparing them is a huge wrap for the Patrol or conversely a huge slap for the Cayenne.!
0
FollowupID: 503969

Reply By: F4Phantom - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 14:38

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 14:38
I love the cayene and would get one if I could. Did the one you had have the off road pack? This includes slide rails underneath, and double diff locks among other things. The cayene is a marvel of engineering, it can do a faster lap time than the old bmw M5, then (in turbo form) drive off road and kill a land cruiser in every area including ground clearance. Makes the tourag look good especially as the V10 TDI VW uses less fuel than the 3.0L petrol!
AnswerID: 242914

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 17:52

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 17:52
Hi F4

No did not have of-froad pack , but it still has diff locks , off road pack gives extra height adjustment and controllable roll bars.

I can't truly say who would win with it and appropriate tyres. What really surprised me as you say is that it was right up there with a well equipped Patrol, and beats it in so many less servre situations.

You'd have to do something about those indicator and wiper stalks which are on wrong side of steering column though.

Robin Miller
0
FollowupID: 503978

Reply By: Member - Tim - Stratford (VIC) - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 16:18

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 16:18
Robin,

Not sure why I'm asking this - no way can I afford a Porsche or VW - but what is the insurance premiums like out of curiosity, any ideas?
AnswerID: 242927

Follow Up By: Member No 1- Monday, May 28, 2007 at 16:37

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 16:37
in a word...dear!
0
FollowupID: 503968

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 22:27

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 22:27
what when you tell them you want to take it off road, or before?

I'd say buy KY in 44's.
0
FollowupID: 504042

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 10:29

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 10:29
Hi Tim

Did ask and its $1480 whereas my Patrol is $438 (AAMI $1000 excess Rating 1)

I know a couple of 20 yr olds have pay as much for their commordores.

Robin Miller
0
FollowupID: 504111

Reply By: Pomgonewalkabout - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 16:33

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 16:33
Now then the bloke who drives the tour truck up to Sillers Lookout told me a story that when they made an advert for the VW or was it the Porsche, the only way that they could get it up there was via Helicopter!!

I reckon the Cayenne is worth more than my house!
AnswerID: 242929

Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 19:42

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 19:42
I guess soon we will have an electronic thing to blow into thats connected to the computer and if we are free of drugs and/or had a few too many, the computer will not let the internet to connect. Yes the NEW Breathaputer.. i think we need it now!!! Michael. ;))
AnswerID: 242966

Reply By: blue one - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 20:09

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 20:09
Tub Thumping
AnswerID: 242982

Reply By: Andrew from 4wheelingOZ Magazine - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 23:22

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 23:22
Interesting read Robin. Having noticed that the non turbos had dropped under $100K second hand with low kms and an easy life, I too looked at this option late last year. Just an awesome on an offroad vehicle. I ended up staying with the GU and buying a new car - no compromise then and less $$$ overall. Main points against the Cayenne were service and insurance costs, bush repairability, tyres and the fact that my Patrol is already bush pinstriped. LOL

Andrew
AnswerID: 243046

Reply By: Richard W (NSW) - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 01:33

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 01:33
I guess we could also throw in the Merc ML 320 CDI.
I only drove it around the 4WD track at the Rosehill Show and after getting used to the levers and buttons was impressed with its traction control. Wheel travel was abysmal but I couldn't hang it up.
AnswerID: 243069

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 07:50

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 07:50
Hi Richard

I can say not an ML320 as we had one on a recent trip and it did get hung up on a big smooth and uphill rock which Patrol drove with open diff's.

The Cayenne really was in a class much closer to Patrol and would actually make a better tow vehicle. These cars are much bigger and more solid than it would appear.

Robin Miller
0
FollowupID: 504088

Reply By: The Landy - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 11:32

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 11:32
Hi Robin

Interesting discussion; clearly a capable vehicle, I'd be interested to know how easily it could be adapted for touring as most want to add bits and pieces to make them more suitable for extended touring etc?

Also, got your note on Hay River, thanks.
AnswerID: 243131

Reply By: mike w (WA) - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 13:28

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 13:28
>Its perhaps not the first car one would look at but it has some serious atributes
including towing stability.

You also forgot the airbag features.....
!MPG:6!

Have a gooden

Mike
AnswerID: 243177

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 17:54

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 17:54
Mike - I have obviously failed to research this subject properly.

I'll re-consider my conclusions
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Can I have two Please !

Robin Miller
0
FollowupID: 504191

Reply By: Dave B (NSW) - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 23:42

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 23:42
I think you would need about $3500 for 4 tyres for the Cayenne Robin.

I know a guy who did in a tyre on his X5 in the Flinders Ranges and had to wait for one to come from Melbourne, none in SA.

He was not a happy little vegemite.

Dave

'Wouldn't be dead for quids'

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

AnswerID: 243395

Reply By: Member - Ian M (QLD) - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 04:21

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 04:21
Some Touareg facts:
V10 diesel - 9.3 k/l touring on black top. 12.1l/100 towing T-Van from Brisbane Savannah Way, Lorne Hill, Brisbane. 100l tank gives it a reasonable but not great range. With 750Nm torque it pulls as though the 1.2 tonnes isn't on the back. Towing capacity 3500Kg with 350 on the ball - like "real" FWDs.
Tyres are my concern too - I have killed one and did that in the city on a broken concrete gutter! Cannot put smaller than 18" rims as it has the Porsche brakes. OEM tyres are $650 a throw - only got 25000ks from set of 4. Hankooks, 20mm narrower (255) and slightly higher profile are MUCH cheaper.
Air suspension has wading mode -still not huge depth though and no snorkel around I can find. Can get external full size spare on tail gate. Air suspension used to inflate dicky spare - and the air suspension can inflate tyres after sand etc... - fast. I carry a full spare on my trailer and have the emergency spare for just that.
Haven't found a bull bar - but then I try not to drive in the bush at night anyway so not sure I would put one on to carry spotties. It has bi-xenon lights standard.
Insurance is $1150 with full no claim.
Electronic "everything" is a concern in the bush but so far so good. Had an incident where it shut down all electronics when I tried to start and said "workshop" - but it started. I shat myself as a workshop was about 800ks away - turned out one of the two standard batteries was faulty and the shut down of all unnecessary stuff was to be sure it started. Smart, but scarey though! Battery location is "different". One is in the spare wheel housing and the other under the passenger's seat!.
Diff locks all round.
Wheelbase around same as 100 series - but much less overhang front and rear. Cargo area is not huge!
Funny bit is that few people have any idea how capable the thing is. Had a real laugh at a traffic controller out the back of Aramac who was telling his mate on the radio at the other end of the road works about the strange little Vdub coming through with a funny van thing on the back!
For what I want - touring the country without climbing mountains off road - and towing, it is the best vehicle I have ever had. Before it - over the years - were a non turbo Nissan, petrol Toyota 60, two diesel Saharas, 4.2l RR and ML270.
It has far exceeded my expectations! I have driven a Cayenne Turbo and its power is amazing - and no turbo lag! The diesel dub though I reckon is perfect for my purposes.
VW have trouble moving enough - I got a 15k discount, three years free service (even including oil) and 4.9% VW finance - still not cheap but not as bad as the sticker price.
It has exceeded my expectations by a mile - 18 months old now so I hope it just keeps on going, without dying out in the scrub somewhere.!

IAN
AnswerID: 243406

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 08:53

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 08:53
Thanks Ian -sounds like a pretty balanced run down.

From a number of points these cars do seem to deserve closer scrutiny.

Things like the fantastic torque and touring range of 1000km no trailer and sub 10lt/100km and vehicle dynamics are hard to find anywhere - in fact I can't think of another that has them all.

I'm an electronics engineer and believe that overall this has improved reliability of vehicles, just changed spark plugs on my car after 140,000km, if you had told me that 30 years ago, I just would not have believed.
It would seem that you have had at least 1 experience where cars internal logic has been of value.

Some of the things you mention are annoyannces that have to be worked around with most cars in one form or another , and I can only think of one structural problem and that is storage capacity. This however is completely negated if one makes the decision to take some form of trailer as so many do.

Robin Miller
0
FollowupID: 504351

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (9)