Battery chargers

Submitted: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 09:10
ThreadID: 46017 Views:2645 Replies:8 FollowUps:19
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I have been reading through previous posts, but still cannot determine whether a 15amp charger is more of an advantage over a 7 amp. From what i can gather, the 15 amp charger will only charge at a faster rate, is this correct?
I have been looking at the CTEK chargers, as they can charge all types of batteries. I have 2 optima batteries.
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Reply By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 09:30

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 09:30
Hi Brett

Yep thats the only reason, faster charging.

Robin Miller
AnswerID: 243103

Reply By: Gronk - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 09:31

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 09:31
Yep, your correct, both will do a good job for what you have, but the bigger charger will do it faster, depends on your circumstances !!

For me, it doesn't matter because my batts last for 4 days while I'm away then when I get home I whack the charger on and leave it for a day ( wouldn't matter if it was two )

CTEK ?? Yep one of the better brands.
AnswerID: 243105

Follow Up By: brett patrol - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 10:01

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 10:01
Thanks guys, much appreciated. Being optima batteries, which have a very fast charge rate, i think the 7 amp charger will be fine.
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FollowupID: 504109

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 13:09

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 13:09
Hi Brett

Your response is little worrying - the Optima won't charge any faster with a 7amp charger than any other type battery - maybe when its 15amp or above you'll begin to see a difference.

Robin Miller
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Follow Up By: brett patrol - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 14:20

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 14:20
Sorry Robin, i meant that Optima batteries charge alot faster than a normal lead acid battery, therefor a 7 amp charger would be fine in reference to speed of charging.
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FollowupID: 504147

Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 11:34

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 11:34
Brett,

Remember that you are charging two at the same time.

Rule of thumb is a charging rate of 20% of the battery caapacity is best.
Bill


I'm diagonally parked in a parallel Universe!

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AnswerID: 243133

Reply By: Russ n Sue - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 11:40

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 11:40
No offence, but you guys obviously don't know a lot about batteries and charging.

brett patrol, read this

site link - battery FAQ

and then make a decision abouta charger.

Cheers,

Russ.
AnswerID: 243135

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 12:51

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 12:51
G'day Russ,

There's a sheet-load of info on that website (I've been on it before too).....

What specific section are you suggesting the bloke looks at? He's asked a fairly basic question and I'm not exactly sure what you mean when you state that all the other respondents to the question "don't know a lot about batteries and charging"????

I'm confused by your response.

Cheers

Roachie
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Follow Up By: Russ n Sue - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 13:05

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 13:05
G'day Roachie,

Yeah, you're right mate, I should have been a bit more specific. There is a very good section in that page that refers to the stages of charging. For optimal charging and preservation of batteries, a charger that is specific to the type of battery you use is the best bet.

For lead-acid wet cells, AGM batteries etc, three-stage chargers are the go. Choosing between a single stage 7.5 Amp charger and a single stage 15 Amp charger wasn't going to be of much help to brett patrol.

Battery charging isn't just clipping on the leads and turning the charger on, it's a science, made easy by these modern chargers.

When I posted the link I was hoping brett would read all of the info so that he also gets an idea about total battery care, not just charging.

Cheers

Russ.

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FollowupID: 504134

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 13:37

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 13:37
Hi Russ - your reply is not correct

Using a 3 stage charger will marginally shorten a batterys life compared to a $10 regulated 1amp plugpak at the Optima's float voltage.

The science involved, as it applies to that battery, is only valid in the context of making it charge faster.

If you change Bretts question to include different types or "total care " or "rejuvenation" then arguements can be mounted for a 3 or more stage charger.

Robin Miller

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FollowupID: 504140

Follow Up By: Russ n Sue - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 14:07

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 14:07
Then we are going to have to agree to disagree Robin.

The "smarts" in these multi-stage chargers are designed to assess the condition of the battery and deliver the correct amount of charge when it is needed. The state of charge is a key factor of what is required to recharge any battery and this is what multiple stage chargers are good at doing.

Your 1 Amp plug pack will not do that, nor will it correctly charge a battery - even over a very long period. In fact it would be battling to overcome the internal losses of the battery. Far from preserving the battery, the poor thing would probably sulphate before it got back to any usable condition.

I agree that it could "float" a charged battery ok though.

I don't know your background but I assume you are in the electrical/electronics industry, as was I. Therefore I recommend you read the page I linked to, it is an excellent abridged reference. I spent 20 years dealing with lead acid battery banks of various persuasions and I'm going for the three stage charger over a single stage one any day, particularly if it has a decent output.

Cheers,

Russ.

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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 14:56

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 14:56
Hi Russ

Yep have plenty of professional R & D engineering references in this area but no need to go through that stuff.

We are not discussing the fastest way to charge a battery, or wether a 3-stage is better than a $10 item - we are discussing a time independant charge on a specific battery type. This is exactly what I have stated in my replies.

The 1amp charger will supply the 48ah that battery requires in 2 days and there is
no significant self discharge on an optima battery , so how on earth can you suggest it will not charge it ?

I can see in your reply that you have mixed up some battery types and effects
however I don't want to confuse issues - but am happy to move on and address every specific point , if you can provide an answer to how a correct volts 1amp plugpak will not charge a negilible self discharge battery.

Robin Miller


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Reply By: Outa Bounds - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 12:25

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 12:25
If you're considering CTEK you may also consider Durst. We ended up getting the Durst BCS-1215B (15amp), price is about equivalent of CTEK but at least it's an Aussie company and should you have any need for warranty or repairs I imagine it would be an easier process. They do also have cheaper models made mainly for the caravan industry where the lower price point is of more importance.

www.durst.com.au/

Had to use it yesterday for the first time. Flattened the battery when trying to start the car (turned out to be the starter motor). Anyway it took roughly 1.5hrs to get the Orbital 50amp battery to over 90% charge. The battery was initially at <25% going by the voltmeter. This particular model also has a temperature sensor which makes it a bit more efficient.

I would agree with the idea that all else being equal having a 7amp compared to a 15amp simply means it will take twice as long to charge, and going over 20% of capacity is a bad idea.

Our last camper had an Arlec charger in it from memory which is probably a cheap unit and it did the job just fine too.

Must say I was pretty clueless about chargers and the like before coming to explore oz and asking questions.
AnswerID: 243152

Reply By: Gronk - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 14:03

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 14:03
My KK had an Arlec basic charger when I 1st bought it and it worked just fine as well, as long as you didn't leave it on too long , which means you had to keep an eye on it ( pain in the neck )

A 3 stage charger is sooo much easier, just turn it on and 1 or 2 days time turn it off ( have AGM's, so once charged, no more charging needed )

I have 4 x 35ah batts with an Absorbed Power charger ( 10A ...$155 ) and works well
AnswerID: 243185

Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 17:21

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 17:21
>have AGM's, so once charged, no more charging needed

It is wise to give AGMs a top up charge at least every three months.

Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 00:51

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 00:51
Yes you are quite right, I meant no more charging for a while !! And no need to leave them on trickle charge !!
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FollowupID: 504328

Reply By: Member - Ian F (WA) - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 19:43

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 19:43
Hi Brett,
I purchased the CTEK 7000 a couple of months back and I am extremely happy with it. It certainly outstrips the cheap models, and it outshines in all respects
The only problem I found was don't have your Engel fridge on line while it/batteries are on charge as the Ctek doesn't like the fridge cutting in/out.
Ian
AnswerID: 243294

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 20:19

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 20:19
If you have access to 240v (which you must have if you're running the Ctek), then why not run the Engel on 240v as well?? That's what I do and it works fine (although I have a 15amp charger that Derek sells).
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FollowupID: 504238

Follow Up By: Member - Ian F (WA) - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 20:39

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 20:39
Hi Roachie'
I suppose I was being plain lazy (or stupid)
I thought it would be the same as the cheapies and decided to charge the starter battery which at that time I had my old 29ltre online . Since then I have added another battery via a 100 amp redarc isolator.
Ian
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FollowupID: 504245

Follow Up By: MichaelR - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 21:43

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 21:43
Hey Ian
What problems did you experience by running the Engel with the CTEK charger? CTEK seem to think this would be fine to do. I am thinking of doing this rather than purchasing a dual battery system (via an inverter). That is the charger would charge the auxiliary battery whilst running via an inverter from the alternator.
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FollowupID: 504272

Follow Up By: Axel [ the real one ] - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 22:06

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 22:06
What do you mean the Ctek doesn't like the Engle cutting in and out ? I have the Engle permanently on in the back of the cruiser , pull up into the garage and connect the Ctek to the starter battery , plug Ctek into power and switch on , charger goes thru its stages and then continually switches between fully charged and float as the Engle cycles on and off , been like that for months ,no problem.
I also use the same charger as the power source for the Waeco 80lt when pre chilling at home prior to plugging into the cruiser as the Ctek 7000 has the power supply function of 13.6v.
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FollowupID: 504285

Follow Up By: Member - Ian F (WA) - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 22:12

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 22:12
Hi Michael,
This is a copy of what happened.
Ray,

I have carried out a second test with my 29litre Engel connected to the battery being charged on normal mode.

There was a rapid rate in voltage to 15.7volts!

Then I isolated the Engel from the circuit, after turning off the charger, I reconnected the charger an it seemed to charge as per normal.

I can only assume this is caused by the Engel recycling.

There does not seem to any information in the manual.

It may be necessary to warn people regarding this matter.

Kind regards,

Ian Foster

Michael, these have 3 stages of charge and before any one say's I had the charger in normal mode not on recon mode.
----------------------------
have a look at the redarc site as they have a system where you can hook your fridge from your main battery via the redarc isolator.
Hope this helps
Ian
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FollowupID: 504288

Follow Up By: Member - Ian F (WA) - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 22:17

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 22:17
This also could be that mine was an old model Engel (27 y.old ) still runs ok but getting a little tired and have just updated.
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FollowupID: 504295

Follow Up By: Mainey (WA) - Thursday, May 31, 2007 at 12:06

Thursday, May 31, 2007 at 12:06
Ian,
When your fridge is connected to the battery and the fridge is NOT running, the battery should recharge as 'normal' as if the fridge was not connected at all.

However, if the fridge is connected to the battery, as they usually are, and INITIALLY not running, and the battery is charging as 'normal' - when the fridge does START some "efficient" battery chargers will increase their "regulated" current going to the battery, simply to compensate for the fridge drawing power from the battery.

This can be clearly seen on digital regulator screens and battery charge indicators.
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FollowupID: 504607

Follow Up By: Member - Ian F (WA) - Thursday, May 31, 2007 at 20:12

Thursday, May 31, 2007 at 20:12
Mainey(WA),
I probably jumped the gun a bit and good have left it fo a few minutes.
Ian
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FollowupID: 504715

Follow Up By: Member - Ian F (WA) - Thursday, May 31, 2007 at 20:15

Thursday, May 31, 2007 at 20:15
Could not good-------Spelling!!!!!!!!
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FollowupID: 504716

Reply By: Member - Fizz (NSW) - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 00:09

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 00:09
I sold thousands of SLA batteries to my scooter customers over 13 years.

Here are some tips:

A cheap charger will stuff SLA batteries. I saw it over and over again.

Use a properly regulated multi-stage charger.

The "Charged" indicator will come on when the battery is only 80-90% charged. The charger will then go into "trickle mode", and it will take as long (or longer) for the battery to get to 100% as it took to get the "charged" light on. So leave the charger on for a few days at least.

Our advice to customers was to leave the charger on while ever their scooter wasn't being driven. This gives the longest battery life, but can only be done with a good quality charger. We supplied EPS switch-mode chargers.
AnswerID: 243398

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