Incredibly cheap, top quality, great service, Australian made!

Submitted: Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 11:42
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It's amusing and enlightening to read posts here over a period of time.

1 We see, an at times almost maniacal obsession with getting the cheapest, cheapest cheapest deal.
Now, by itself there is nothing wrong with that, we've all done it at times.

2 The amusement sets in when we then see compliants about lack of informed sales people, service people, backup parts, someone who cares etc etc.

3 You also often get "why is nothing made in Australia" and "I hate being forced to buy Chinese, Indian, etc etc etc".

The answer to 2 and 3 lies in 1.

No business can survive on nil profit for very long.
Training good people costs, stocking spares costs, going the extra mile for the customer costs. Above all making a quality product in Australia costs (we have some of the highest labour cost per unit of productivity in the world)

Is it any surprise then that businesses opt to stay in business by providing what the customer wants (these are the customers who want the cheapest) and then trimming everything to make a profit.

There are Australian manufacturers making top quality goods backed up by great service. Often they only focus on industrial sales where the customer buys a package including training, backup, parts, service, resale value, not just a cheap initial price. They also exist in niche markets where an educated, informed customer base exists who is prepared to buy a package once again (some of the top shelf off road campers spring to mind to name but one)

Incredibly cheap, top quality, great service, Australian made, simply doesn't work as a business model. It never has and never will.

Perhaps next time we are contemplating a purchase we should consider giving someone other that the cheapest a go. We may even get more than we expected.

I realise I'm a voice in the wilderness, because the majority will always want cheap, cheap, cheap and then moan if things don't go to expectations.

I'd be interested to hear what others think.

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Reply By: derraux - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 12:18

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 12:18
Verry verry well said nothing to add
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Reply By: Willem - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 12:23

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 12:23
Quite so

It peeves me when people opt buy something from the USA like GPS for instance, and then want to know how to configure everything to Australian standards. Tyhe short term gain could be the long term grizzle.

Due to the high labour cost many Australian Companies are going off shore to countries who make the 'cheap' stuff as well and then reselling it here. That is part of the Global Market these days.

I try to buy as much as I can locally and will prefer to buy Australian Made. One local hadrware shop really sells products of low quality at Australian Prices and I have had to return goods time and time again. Now they sell GMC electrical equipment and advise you when you are purchasing that they do not handle warranty claims and that you have to direct to the manufacturer. So much for after sales service. I have now come to expect that small white goods(kitchen items) only have a 2 year longevity as many parts are outsourced to other countries for component manufacture.

Unfortunately the Australian workers ethic, as put forward by the Union movement over decades, demands extraordinary payment for work done, and costs of running a business become prohibitive and uncompetitive at times. There has been some pegging back of this recently(and I am not arguing for or against) but if Labour was to take over the administration of the country again, one can expect to see untold demands for low productivity.

The only things I tend to buy at the cheap shops are shop soiled Aussie Made chocolates......lol

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member -Signman - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 12:44

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 12:44
"Now they sell GMC electrical equipment and advise you when you are purchasing that they do not handle warranty claims and that you have to direct to the manufacturer."
The Consumer Affairs mob over here jumped on that over here a while back. When the iPods were first introduced, apparently the failure rate was very high. Retailers were forcing the consumers to get satisfaction direct to Apple. After many complaints- Consumer Affairs ruling across the board on any product is that 'you sell it- you handle after sales service'. !!! ie.- The retailer is responsible.
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Follow Up By: Member - bushfix - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 12:53

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 12:53
G'day Willem,

not intending to hijack this good thread (apologies Gone Troppo) and I am all for AUstralian Made...so I will just say a few words....

but thank God for the Union movement. They get their fair share of bad press as do company executives but I believe the Australian Work Ethic is where the Union movment started from, Fair Conditions and Pay for a Fair day's work. Standing up together against exploitation. Australian Unions do this for overseas commnities also via such organisations as APHEDA. This does not mean ambit claims or troublemaking for the sake of it, it is about stopping the downward slide in living conditions we have.

I disagree with the generalisation re demanding "extraordinary payment for work done." Other countries that Australia may move their operations to may have nowhere near the standard of living that we have, or would tolerate. Quite often I believe this is because there is no collectiveness for whatever reason, just the boot of the employer and government. The world getting smaller, (the Global Market quite rightly as you say) disolving the validity of tariffs for example, mean that obviously a cheaper labour rate is more appealing. In the end, it is no longer Australian made. Does not need to mean poor quality but the jobs are gone. If the jobs stay, and people just cop it sweet from the employer, where does that leave us? More and more in this country it is "what's in it for me?" The collectiveness is disappearing.

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Follow Up By: Kumunara (NT) - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 13:20

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 13:20
Willem

Well said. The pity of it is that when I go shopping I often look for Australian Made products and they no longer exist.

I will put in a plug for one company. Nippys fruit juices use Australian Oranges. Yes not imported concentrate but real Australian oranges.

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Follow Up By: Willem - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 14:10

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 14:10
G'day Bushfix

I won't argue with you on this one. We both have different ideologies. Mine coming from being an employer.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - bushfix - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 15:27

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 15:27
yeah no probs mate, was trying hard not to start one lol

dippin me lid.

Jeremy.
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Follow Up By: Frank_Troopy - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 16:42

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 16:42
Hi Bushfix,
I think you are spot on. Willem seems to have forgotten that it was a Labor (Hawke/Keating) government that related wage increases to productivity improvement and gained union support, bringing us years of low wage increases and a large boost in our prosperity. It is a pity that people have a different perspective on this issue depending on whether they see themselves as an employer or a worker. It's a pity we can't all base our decisions on what is right and fair. Rather than have a stupid class competition, wouldn't it be nice if we all were motivated by what's best for Australians as a whole?

Cheers Frank.
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Follow Up By: F4Phantom - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 19:49

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 19:49
I got a GMC nail gun, worked fine, it chipped a bit off the nail holder, I did the Internet thing after bunnings would not help, they sent a newie, so now I have 2 perfectly good units. The problem GMC were having is bunnings would take back units without question and people would take a generator camping, bring it home, snip the wires and get their money back. Down the road from me I have the GMC shop which sells all the returned crap, I got a 3 speed cordles hammer drill two batts, and all that $30. Chainsaw with crack in plastic $25, digital laser spirit level $10, air blower $20. I know quality is nice but I buy whatever I need when I need and dont have to pay, none has broken or been stolen yet but if it does I dont care.
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Sunday, Jun 10, 2007 at 08:41

Sunday, Jun 10, 2007 at 08:41
Bushie, the original reason for unions is a great idea, sadly they have lost their way and veil their corruption and self serving attitude and activities in "fighting the MAN for the worker". I have on more than one occasion seen them sacrifice workers for their own greedy serf supporting activities. I have had them claim responsibility for actions that I carried out myself and use these actions as a reason to Stay Union or rejoin. I have seen them burn 5 years of good relations on piffling claims that their general body of members couldnt give two hoots about.

Other than that theyre OK, if they can serve their members and save them having to cop it sweet for unscrupulous employers they are good. Havent seen a lot of that sadly.

But the Australian way of life and work ethos is Australian and not too many unions or organisers either understand that or bear out that ethos by their actions. Ever notice many union officials are from the UK????? Wonder why
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Follow Up By: Kumunara (NT) - Sunday, Jun 10, 2007 at 18:36

Sunday, Jun 10, 2007 at 18:36
Bonz

Spot on.

A union should work for the members - the workers. If a good employer works with a good union then they can agree for better pay and conditions in return for improved productivity and the system then works as it should. A win - win situation.

Unforturnately some union leaders have ideals which are so left wing they look at any employer as the enemy. They will not work with them but try to hamper any changes in the workplace which will improve productivity. The end result is that it is the workers who suffer.

We have an extremely good situation in this country at the moment with extremely low unemployment rates and good interest rates. The economy is booming due to good management. I hope people don't vote labor in again so they can bankrupt our country.

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Follow Up By: Member - bushfix - Sunday, Jun 10, 2007 at 19:05

Sunday, Jun 10, 2007 at 19:05
G'day Bonz, Kumunara,

I certainly do not disagree that there is a thug element involved. I hear you Bonz. However, I would confidently say that that element is far outnumbered by the good work done for individuals/groups and their families. I have been in the 'game' for 18 yrs and have seen a lot from the inside too. What makes it all the more frustrating is the cases of infighting and smearing, especially around election time.

BUT, on the other hand, I have seen, in my Union, a tremendous amount of good work and I still see it, and I am part of it. What is disappointing is the slowness of the movement to adapt to the current era, find new ways of working together not against each other, understand just how things have changed (at clause level) since Reith and Kernot got wave one through. The rate of change in the telecommunications sector, combined with an HR dept apparently whose policies were pretty much dictated by the federal govt is hard enough, let alone trying to fight the parade of hightop lawyers employed by the same. It's a pity not more companies are owned by Stan Howard, perhaps then some more people would get what they are entitled to.

Yes I have seen plenty of both sides, but am still proud to be a part of the Union movement, without a doubt. I believe the campaign run by the ACTU has hit home among people not normally inclined to listen. The govt has gone too far this time.

United we stand, divided we beg.

cheers guys.
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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Sunday, Jun 10, 2007 at 21:03

Sunday, Jun 10, 2007 at 21:03
bushfix

United we stand, divided we beg.

AMWU 3199665 5 **
ALP 982303

Cheers

Richard Kovac

You know why we both like Roger..... LOL
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Reply By: Trevor W(Brisbane) - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 12:28

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 12:28
And the other extreme
Left home this Morning (Brisbane Southside)
first Shell Garage 1.29 a litre
second Shell garage 1.29 a litre
Little friendly Outfit at Springwood 1.19 a litre
80 big bucks of fuel latter ,nearly 7 bucks still in my pocket
Little friendly fellow tells me he will be in trouble with his boss as he hasnt had a chance to put the price up yet
Dont know where this is leading but I do try and buy Austarlian
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Reply By: Member - Nutter (QLD) - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 12:32

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 12:32
Hi GoneTroppo, speaking from 1st hand experience as a manufacturer, we used to sell to retailers but not so much any more, sell direct to the public from our factory, a customer will SAY they want a quality product, however the benchmark in price seems to be what a similar looking imported item is , if the imported product fails more often than not no where to get a warranty satisfied or parts hard to get if at all, if you are a local manufacturer then your product has to be spot on or you will have problems, this as you say come at a price in a country that is not cheap to run a business in. We are told we have to be competetive with the rest of the world , a level playing field, our playing field has about a 75 degree uphill slope.

Nutter
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 12:47

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 12:47
Agreed
I deal in the international market place and the field is certainly not level when my labour costs 6 to 8 times higher than the people I'm trying to compete with.
My slope is also about 75 degrees :-)
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Follow Up By: Footloose - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 13:17

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 13:17
John, when you say "labour costs", I assume you mean in total, not what the individual worker is taking home ? One industry I'm intimately connected to costs labour at 80% of its total costs. BUT that includes a lot of tax and structural burdens.
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 14:27

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 14:27
Correct Jim but workcover and Super is a reflection of the earnings paid anyway.
IE, Super being 9% on top of the gross earning and Workcover being calcualted on the gross payroll costs.

I then have to cope with an industry that works in USD and given the AUD exchange rate, well it means life is getting harder all the time.
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Follow Up By: Footloose - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 14:34

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 14:34
John, I can see you being a Lib/CP supporter of the IR reforms :))
I could go on, but won't. I can see both sides of the fence. Sadly I live on the first rung of the electric one:))
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 15:00

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 15:00
LOL Jim now lets not change the thread to one of political persuasion :-)

A little story, One of my major clients (One of the worlds largest oil companies) 10 years ago informed me during a discussion we were having that the tanker fleet (Then under Australian Flag) he was managing had a labour cost on the largest of the ships of $2.5 million AUD above what he could crew and operate the thing for with foreign crews (Including on costs such as repatriation etc) he was fighting a losing battle with maintaining Aussie crews.
As I said that was 10 years ago, God only knows what the difference would be today.
Today this company have no Australian flagged ships and they have almost no staff in their Australian marine division, in fact all the tankers they now use are chartered from various overseas owners.
Thats just one owner, BHP has no fleet, ANL is no more the list goes on and the situation has been repeated right through the industry.

Oh and these chartered vessels get almost no work done within Australia as the onshore costs are so high as I mentioned above.

So thanks to the Maritime Union of Australia for your input into the Australian economy. Any wonder why there union membership is a pimple compared to what it once was.
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Follow Up By: Footloose - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 15:56

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 15:56
John, I have seen behind the scenes of the union movement, and in some cases it isn't pretty. However I have also had a glimpse at the flip side, nightmare stuff. There is no doubt in my mind that unions are a necessary evil in some cases. For example where I am, many school leavers are taken advantage of by their employers in two ways. By employing them under a Govt scheme knowing that once the scheme finishes, so does their employment. Then the employment agencies "recycle" them. And in the workplace, some single 18 yo girls are being made to stay back by themselves (and work after their finishing time to "put out the rubbish") until up to 12pm in places that are simply unsafe.
And then we wonder why these kids don't want to work !
As for the maratime unions, yes they used to be far out. But I note you didn't mention the tactics involved in bringing their power to an end on the waterfront :)))
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Follow Up By: Footloose - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 16:07

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 16:07
I forgot to mention, my real name isn't Kevin, nor do I have any political affiliations at all.
I guess it depends on which side of the fence you sit on as to how you see things. For example one economist recently pointed out that the labour cut of business profits has declined, whilst the business cut has actually increased.
I find that hard to believe, and my suggestion iwould be that you'd have to look at the mico rather than the macro picture, as it would vary on a sector basis.
I have no doubt that some businesses are doing it tough.
So are some of the ordinary blokes in the street.
But Govts at all levels aren't !
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Follow Up By: BennyGU - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 19:10

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 19:10
Bring back in Cabotage
Aussie cargo - Aussie Ships - Aussie Crews - Aussie Waters - Aussie Values
MUA quote 'pimple of what it was' unquote
Patrick is still 94% MUA

Waterfront dispute: who was right, who was wrong. Doesn't stop the 'Battlers Mate' Johnny praising a man who illegally fired a workforce, almost brought a country to its knees and put alot of people I know in very, very uncertain positions. In the final tally I wonder how long it would have taken Patrick-Corrigan to recoup the losses after the real workforce returned and the scabs were dismissed. Maybe an approach of mutual understanding would have been far better for productivity. In my workplace (wher I have been a union official for now 24.5 years) we have spent 18 days on strike in all that time by sitting down, being reasonable and both prepared for concessions. The days of striking over homebrand toilet paper are well gone (and so they bloody ought to be).

Every time I see the Workchoices (The Legislation formerly known as....) supporters I have to severely question thier motives. Peter Hendy on Sunday Business justifying why a 18 year old student store assistant should be on a lesser wage for longer hours so that 'productivity' can be increased. For all the productivity increases in recent years all I see is an ever widening gap between the haves and will-never-haves.

I do not want my children (or myself) to work 18 hours a day for a bowl of rice. Leave that to the developing nations, the only road for Australia is skills and training. Something neglected since '96.

Ben
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 21:42

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 21:42
"I do not want my children (or myself) to work 18 hours a day for a bowl of rice"

Ben neither do I, but they may be lucky to have a job in the future that pays them a bowl of rice in this country.

As far as your comments about 94% of Patrick's being MUA, well that may be the case except that they are no longer Patrick's its now Toll and from a workforce of 280 odd full timers on Web Dock alone as one small example here in Melb they now run the same dock with 35 full time and 80 odd casuals.
So by my figures 94% of 115 workers is a lot less that 94% of 280 odd.
Also in terms of productivity they now break 25 crane movements an hour as a matter of routine as opposed to being hard pressed to move 15 boxes in the old days.

So it begs the question Who really lost the waterfront war?
Somehow I don't think it was Mr Corrigan.

The world is changing and from the perspective of someone who has worked around the Melbourne waterfront for a long time its a real eye opener to see the difference.
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Follow Up By: BennyGU - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 22:51

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 22:51
My point is that the MUA still has the vast majority and they are here to stay. They won the moral war, the court of public opinion and the legal war. They can hold thier integrity shoulder high whilst the current government/patrick/corrigan are highly disgraced for thier part in the illegal acts that took place in 98. It doesn't surprise me that people of colalition persuassion would rather talk of container rates instead of people, thier lives and the conditions that these rates are achieved under. 25 containers an hour: no breaks (p!ss in a bottle) but hey thats the great new world we are told to live in. I reckon a Royal Commision into the War on the Waterfront would uncover some incredibly damaging information. If one goes down all I can hope for is to see the wonderfully independant former minister now jobs for the boys man the dishonourable Peter Reith behind bars :)

"but they may be lucky to have a job in the future that pays them a bowl of rice in this country" .................. on an AWA. A 2c/hr race to the bottom I, my union nor its members will be a part of and will oppose at any and every occasion.
Not under a union could this happen, I'll be damned if I let the rights and conditions that better people than I have given all to win for the working class that are enshrined in law be immorally cast aside without a fair fight. I wear my 'Rights at work' shirt with pride.
Fair days pay for a fair days work. As what I previously said I am prepared to negotiate and the results speak for themselves, the business of 350 people in question is currently at 97% union membeship, profits are records because happy staff work harder. simple

To all else reading this; this is a 4wd forum. I regret that it has been politicized but I could not let the above comments stand without challenge.

Ben

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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 23:29

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 23:29
Never disputed that the MUA have the majority, only that the majority was once a larger number than it is today.

The problem with your comments about holding their integrity shoulder high is quite simply that no one really cares anymore. 1998 was a lifetime ago.
The only people who continually make reference to what happened back then is those that have more interest in patting themselves on the back for their big moment in time, meanwhile the world has passed them by.
Even the once great John Coombs is a nobody these days and is not even known by those people who work on the wharfs and remaining ships today.

The Waterside Workers joined the Seaman's Union and became the Maritime Union of Australia, a pretty formidable union, today most people say the Maritime who?

As for Mr Coorigan, Mr Little from Toll rewarded him quite handsomely for his efforts.

As I said the world has changed and the MUA leadership stand around at the pub beating their collective chest and no one cares.

The ships (foreign owned) come and go bigger and faster than ever before and more boxes than ever before get moved everyday, the workers pi$$ in the bottle, Cabotage is a term of old and the profits are at record levels, who said the current workers and staff were not happy?

I should have also signed my replies

Former MUA Member who is a realist
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Follow Up By: Footloose - Friday, Jun 08, 2007 at 14:39

Friday, Jun 08, 2007 at 14:39
John, you're correct...again ! Getting to be a bad habit :) I meant John not John R...too early for me or seniors moment or whatever :))
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Reply By: Member - Matt M (ACT) - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 12:43

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 12:43
I'm not sure if you are a voice in the wilderness or not.

Certainly cheap seems to sell, but as I go in in life I find that price becomes less of an issue and quality and service become more important, for which I am happy to pay a premium. Perhaps this is just a stage of life thing with a few more dollars and a (little) more experience with nasty cheap goods. This is the reason that, for example, I won't use certain auto accessories chains any more. I don't care how cheap their stuff is, there is no monetary compensation for inefficient, ignorant or dismissive service.

I am a believer in the quality of Australian manufactured goods, but unfortunately the people who market and sell these goods are not always up to speed (plenty of exceptions I know). The recent international airline survey is probably a good example. QANTAS are the safest airline in the world and undoubtedly efficient, but they got hammered for general levels of service compared to other carriers who maintain a greater customer focus and leave QANTAS for dead in that area.

Australian workers are among the best paid in the world and this means that we pay a premium for manufactured goods we can rely on. But the service sector? I'm not so sure that we always get the return here compared with many other countries in our region and further a field.

Matt.

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Follow Up By: downtools - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 14:40

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 14:40
G'day Matt,

Talk about service?
I walked into a 4x4 accessories place today ready to part the folding stuff for a pair of lights for the 4b.
After 15mins of me looking through their gear no one had come near me, they were chatting to mates or girlfriends on the phone.
As I was leaving (almost out the door)one of them lowered their phone, covered the mouthpiece and asked if I was OK? I said "sure I'm fine but your service sux"
didnt phase him. straight back to the phone.
I don't get it??
Cheers nifty
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Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 16:51

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 16:51
Matt,

"QANTAS are the safest airline in the world and undoubtedly efficient, but they got hammered for general levels of service compared to other carriers who maintain a greater customer focus and leave QANTAS for dead in that area"

I'm happy with safe and suffering inferior service. The opposition airlines would'nt be able to serve the booze quick enough, as we plunged earthward, to make a worthwhile difference :)))))))
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Follow Up By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 19:08

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 19:08
I don't fly Qantas if I can help it as the seats are to close together - simple as that. By shoveing in a couple of extra rows to squeeze more dollars they lose customers.

Pity VB pulled out of Alice.
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Follow Up By: Member - Dunworkin (WA) - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 22:00

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 22:00
I'm with you Gramps, I would much rather feel safer and have a chance of landing safely than all the good service in the air and not arrive!!!!!!



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Follow Up By: Bware (Tweed Valley) - Friday, Jun 08, 2007 at 00:40

Friday, Jun 08, 2007 at 00:40
"This is 'Hypothetical Airlines', we are about to go down now, in the mean time, I will go down on you" - mmm, service.
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Follow Up By: Footloose - Friday, Jun 08, 2007 at 06:57

Friday, Jun 08, 2007 at 06:57
John R, you were right and I apologise. Blasted politics! I should have kept my thoughts to myself.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Friday, Jun 08, 2007 at 13:21

Friday, Jun 08, 2007 at 13:21
Footy I must have missed something there??
No John R post on here?
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Sunday, Jun 10, 2007 at 08:45

Sunday, Jun 10, 2007 at 08:45
Footloose posted this followup:
John R, you were right and I apologise. Blasted politics!

Member - John (Vic) posted this followup
Footy I must have missed something there??
No John R post on here?

Footloose WILL POST this followup:
Blasted alzheimers! hahahahahahahah
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Reply By: brushmarx - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 12:58

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 12:58
I somewhat agree with your statements, and in the past, generally had the practice of getting prices on three competative products, (or 3 prices on the same product), then selecting the mid price one.
This was done in the belief that the cheaper item was probably not as good, and the dearer one overpriced.
After many years of this practice, I realised that a poorly made item does not necessarily mean a cheap price, and vice versa. Many items were still rubbish no matter what price.
It would be nice if price reflected just quality, however, sometimes it just reflects greed.
Australian made is an excellent practice, but only if quality is guaranteed.
Unfortunately, this is not always the case.
I think I will stick to Research, Try, and hope like hell it will last, irrespective of country of manufacture or price.
But I will always buy Australian Made if the price and quality are equal to, or close to the imported opposition.
Cheers
Ian
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Follow Up By: Member - Gavin B (NSW) - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 13:43

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 13:43
Yep, good point.

There is no guarantee that Australian Made is necessarily the best quality and therefore justifiably commands the premium price. You need to do the research and make an informed decision.

I too will always buy Australian if the quality is equal or better than the competitors, however it becomes difficult to justify if the quality is not up to standard AND the price is still at a premium compared to the competition.
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Follow Up By: Bware (Tweed Valley) - Friday, Jun 08, 2007 at 00:54

Friday, Jun 08, 2007 at 00:54
I agree with you guys; although I may generally agree with Gone Troppo, the original poster, there are plenty of examples of inferior Australian products being sold as 'premium Ozzie manufactured goods' but are actually cheaply made with a huge mark-up
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Reply By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 13:07

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 13:07
I wonder where those executives at MC...bank who are on $30 million dollars a year salary buy their toys from ?
AnswerID: 245378

Follow Up By: Angler - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 20:49

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 20:49
These gods probably never "buy" toys, they are more than likely given everything just like out pollies.
Pooley
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Reply By: Member - Terry G (NSW) - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 13:35

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 13:35
I guess I am one of the lucky ones. I have a car dealer that has serviced my vehicles for the past 7 years and I have been extremly happy with the service. While he charges the going rate I know the job is going to be done. When it was time to buy a new car for mummy last year he got our business, even though his price was a bit higher than others around for the same vehicle. I appreciate the service and the knowledge that I can depend on him. I could get the job done cheaper, I'm sure of that, but peace of mind is worth a few dollars.

tg
AnswerID: 245388

Reply By: Redback - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 13:54

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 13:54
I try to buy Australian when i can, but what pi$$es me off is when you email them for info and they never reply.

I won't be buying anything from these guys that's for bloody sure now.

Yes i'm talking about you Baz at Tanami4wd and you blokes at Premier batteries.

Mongrels

Baz.
AnswerID: 245391

Reply By: Member - Wim (Qld) - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 15:46

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 15:46
Posted this once before and was howled down but here goes.

Just a thought.

"It is unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little".
When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that is all.
When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything,
because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do.
The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done.
If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run.
And if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.

"John Ruskin 1860"

In business I constantly hear complaints about the quality of the work of some in my industry. But the cheapest price always gets the job.

With that said, there is still no guarantees in life.
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AnswerID: 245409

Follow Up By: GoneTroppo Member (FNQ) - Friday, Jun 08, 2007 at 07:47

Friday, Jun 08, 2007 at 07:47
"In business I constantly hear complaints about the quality of the work of some in my industry. But the cheapest price always gets the job."

That's the point I'm making. Some do not and will not "get it".

Sending your suppliers broke by srewing them lower and lower is not much of a long term strategy


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Reply By: Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 20:43

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 20:43
Hi GoneTroppo

I can only give you feed back from my own experience.

I have been buying and selling products for over 25 years and have found that the big names make their money by buying off shore and selling to other wholesalers who then sell to the public.

I started questioning the prices I was paying and pushed for discounts and I hit a brick wall.

Next step, find their factories.

Now I skip the middle man and can supply factory direct and have signed up exclusive distribution deals on the way. Australian made is great and I support where I can but in the electronics and 12V industry not much is 100% local any more.

Regards

Derek.
AnswerID: 245473

Reply By: Middle Jeff - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 21:07

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 21:07
Hi

I love the ones who spend hours or even days trying to save ten dollars, I had a guy try to tell me he could get a job that we had quoted on that was worth nearly nine thousand dollars for twenty dollars less and would we match it, when I said no he got upset because the other company was going to take to long to produce it and he would have to use us, he just did not get it.

Have fun

Craig
AnswerID: 245486

Follow Up By: GoneTroppo Member (FNQ) - Friday, Jun 08, 2007 at 07:53

Friday, Jun 08, 2007 at 07:53
Love that story Craig. It's what I meant by "maniacal obsession"
It almost becomes a religious quest with some.

(Apologies all, for bringing religion into it, but you blokes brought politics into it first!)
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Follow Up By: GoneTroppo Member (FNQ) - Friday, Jun 08, 2007 at 07:54

Friday, Jun 08, 2007 at 07:54
Meant to add, good on you for saying NO.
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Sunday, Jun 10, 2007 at 08:48

Sunday, Jun 10, 2007 at 08:48
Now that is a classic story, Not my problem Buddy, I would have been thinking, have had the same thing a couple times myself.
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Reply By: poppy2 - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 22:41

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 22:41
My personal opinion....If you buy cheap... You buy twice.
and you get what you pay for!
AnswerID: 245516

Follow Up By: Member - Glenn D (NSW) - Saturday, Jun 09, 2007 at 00:00

Saturday, Jun 09, 2007 at 00:00
The Poor Pay Twice

This is my mates favourite saying !
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Reply By: John Cook - Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 23:28

Thursday, Jun 07, 2007 at 23:28
Sometimes cheaper is just as good. The dealer wanted about $4500 for a rear wheel carrier (included a solid cover with built in brake light).
TJM in Adelaide did the carrier (with licence plate light) AND an 80 litre fuel tank in the place of the underbody skinny spare, with an LED fuel gauge on dash.
Looks good, is solid, and does what its supposed to, for under $2900.
All Australian made.
Cheers
John
AnswerID: 245537

Reply By: Bware (Tweed Valley) - Friday, Jun 08, 2007 at 00:29

Friday, Jun 08, 2007 at 00:29
Wow, by the time I read all this thread I couldn't remember what the thread was about......Unions, I think ;-)))
AnswerID: 245547

Follow Up By: GoneTroppo Member (FNQ) - Friday, Jun 08, 2007 at 07:59

Friday, Jun 08, 2007 at 07:59
I never never never never even mentioned unions, politics, religion or homosexuals in my original post :-)

Seems I struck a nerve though!
Some interesting thoughts coming out of this.
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Friday, Jun 08, 2007 at 13:19

Friday, Jun 08, 2007 at 13:19
Religious homosexuals??? Must have missed that bit!
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FollowupID: 506643

Reply By: Kevern - Friday, Jun 08, 2007 at 15:00

Friday, Jun 08, 2007 at 15:00
I agree with you to a point, some if not a lot of companies go off shore to manufacture purely for profit, they want a bigger profit margin for the bosses/owners and all this is, is greed on their part. Personally I will always try to buy Australian made and am prepared to pay a premium for that and as for service as far as I can I will find an outlet/store I like then purchase from the product range they carry but I , at present , am in a financial position to do this unlike a lot of people in this country. When I see manufactures go of shore so they can maintain there over inflated profit margin it truly saddens me to see such greed. Just my opinion.
AnswerID: 245627

Follow Up By: Shaker - Friday, Jun 08, 2007 at 15:31

Friday, Jun 08, 2007 at 15:31
I think it is being naive to call it greed, unfortunately it is a necessity for survival.
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Follow Up By: Kevern - Friday, Jun 08, 2007 at 18:17

Friday, Jun 08, 2007 at 18:17
You may consider it naive but I will still call it greed [ where appropriate], I don't have it and I live, not just survive quite well thank you.
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Follow Up By: Kevern - Friday, Jun 08, 2007 at 18:28

Friday, Jun 08, 2007 at 18:28
On reflection may reply may sound sarcastic, sorry for that I did not intend it to be.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Monday, Jun 11, 2007 at 22:54

Monday, Jun 11, 2007 at 22:54
No offence.
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Reply By: grunter - Friday, Jun 08, 2007 at 16:23

Friday, Jun 08, 2007 at 16:23
In the areas or fields that i have an understanding of ( they are very limited ! ), my purchase is based on what i percieve, or know, is good value.
While i always seek out oz built products or services first, i will not pay an inflated price just because a product is made in oz, when i know the comparative product ( of the same quality ) presents far better value for my hard earned.

Having that opinion about the things i have an understanding of, the things i know nothing or very little about i approach differently.

I firmly believe that good service & advice is worth $$$.

eg: needed UHF for prado, don't have much of an idea.got good price off internet but still wasnt sure if right model & i didnt know how to fit.

went to local big name retailer & spoke to guy who didnt really know what he was on about & couldnt explain to me any more than the limited amount i already knew.
he gave me a price for complete unit, aerial etc, fitted.

on mates advice went to local auto elec,sound system specialist.from the minute i walked through the door i was treated very proffessionally.he straight away knew the type of information i was looking for & explained everything in detail & was able to answer all my questions.very impressed.

His price (without even "whats your best price") was much cheaper than big name retailer & only about $40 - $50 more than internet for exactly same items.

in my opinion $40-50 is not much to pay for getting the right advice on the best suited products for me.( and yes it was an oz made product ).

in my business i have a technical & working background in the products i sell,which enables me to provide the right products & advice for the desired application.unfortunately this isnt always valued as still a lot of people will only want cheap equipment or will buy blind off internet.

The people who appreciate & are willing to pay for good service/advice are unfortunately few & far between.
AnswerID: 245642

Reply By: Member - Brian H (QLD) - Monday, Jun 11, 2007 at 10:49

Monday, Jun 11, 2007 at 10:49
Interesting topic ....... my wife is after a new lounge suite and I'm pleased to say the good lady located one and is constructed in Australia and made very well indeed, much better than many over seas one we were shown. Where the parts come from no idea. At least its not mass produced overseas and then sold here.

Price $5600.00 from major furniture mob ........ rather buy something for my 4be but i'll keep the peace and shutup lol ......... anyway asked the wife to do a check on the internet for the same thing which is made from the same company (melbourne) and found it at just over $2700 mind you its in tassie (do we class this as overseas LOL).

I mean I'm very happy to buy aussie and did look at overseas brands proberly all made over seas but this one had made in aussie on it:).

I don't mind a mark up as people must make a profit to survive (no issue there) but whom is making the money here nearly $3000 differnce, any wonder people shop around and I'm sure many would buy cheaper overseas stuff if there is a major saving. One this one is simply some that shop fronts giving a bad name to aussie makers by hiking up there prices to get the people that will just buy aussie brand stuff or worse still force them to buy overseas at a lessor price but proberly make more profits

I see it in the lure industry as I'm tied up in this and it pis%es me off to see the mark up by some companies to a point that pushes people to buy overseas stuff as its cheaper in many cases.

My mates also into lure making and he will not sell to shops that put huge prices on his produced as he sees it this hinders his business as few people buy them but where its priced well he sells heap and this promotes his product and increases his numbers. The more people use his lures the more he sell and if sitting on the shelf not selling does nothing for anyone including the shop owner.

We have been asked to supply huge numbers of lures for open days as BIG SPECIALS and we are happy to do this but when asked what are the prices going to be we are told and its ONLY the price we drop it, they don't want to drop anything off thier profit so you can guess the answer we give them. Its not always the aussie manufactures whom give the aussie brand a bad name in cost I drop a lot onto the end seller as well.

Proberly went off topic a bit sorry

Brian


AnswerID: 246030

Follow Up By: GoneTroppo Member (FNQ) - Monday, Jun 11, 2007 at 21:13

Monday, Jun 11, 2007 at 21:13
You make a good point Brian, likewise all along I was talking about VALUE, which is comprised of many things. BTW my post was not so much about Oz made as the concept of value generally.

Along a supply chain from raw material to end user there are typically several stages at which a profit is taken, (it's what makes the world go round) it's when someone exploits a situation without providing value that the thing falls down.

Fortunately an informed free market provides a remedy for this, people buy elsewhere and the culprit goes broke, or changes his ways.

It does actually work, surprisingly enough.

The only time it does not is when you have cartels or collusion. (think oil, or transport in the 80's)

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