Generator and 3 Stage Charger

Submitted: Friday, Jul 06, 2007 at 22:04
ThreadID: 47461 Views:3994 Replies:7 FollowUps:20
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I need to replace about 35 amps used daily from a 100amp battery which is used to run a 40 litre engel and a versalite camp light. I was thinking of running the engel from 240 Volt on high while using a Ctek 15 amp charger to recharge the battery. I am led to believe I would need to run the generator for 2.5 hours to bring the battery back up to 90 % capacity. Solar is the other option but the availability of used generators makes this option cheaper as I only need it for three weeks use a year.
So what has been your experience, did the smart charger and generator method work out for you and based on your experience will I get by on running the generator for only 2.5 hours a day ?
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Reply By: Member- Rox (WA) - Friday, Jul 06, 2007 at 22:57

Friday, Jul 06, 2007 at 22:57
Yes the genset works but Nat parks don't like them. even if they're 4stroke.
Have you thought about running your 4WD on idel?
Are you going to be in 1 place long?
AnswerID: 251141

Follow Up By: kwk56pt - Friday, Jul 06, 2007 at 23:07

Friday, Jul 06, 2007 at 23:07
Yes a lot of people dont like gensets which is understandable
Yes I have thought about running the car but my understanding is this would take many hours ulness a smart rgulator is fitted $ 400 and provided the alternator can handle the increased demand.
Yes I am planning to be in one place for about two weeks.
And Solar cost of panels regulator and the cost of a rack / bars to roof mount them and before you know it I am thinking generator.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Friday, Jul 06, 2007 at 23:23

Friday, Jul 06, 2007 at 23:23
I would have thought an idling diesel would be much louder than almost any generator.
It always amuses me that the same people that come down hard on generators, are advocates for in car shower systems.
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Follow Up By: Sand Man (SA) - Friday, Jul 06, 2007 at 23:34

Friday, Jul 06, 2007 at 23:34
kwt56pt

My solar panel sits on the ground and the supporting legs fold out.

A 100 Ah battery is not really all that big and would be handled easily by the vehicle alternator. If the battery is an AGM it will charge the quickest.

If you are stationary, there are not too many alternatives mate.

The vehicle alternator.
A generator. (if you can use it).
A solar panel. (probably the best option for long term camping)

Unless you are considering a $98 "Bunnings special" generator, the cost of a solar panel can be as low as $550, including the regulator. This will give you a 40 watt panel which may be sufficient for your 40 litre fridge. (It is for mine)

No workable solution can be done "on the cheap".
Bill


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Follow Up By: Sand Man (SA) - Friday, Jul 06, 2007 at 23:37

Friday, Jul 06, 2007 at 23:37
Oh!

And unless you already have one, a three stage charger is going to add another $300-$400 dollars.

A solar panel is starting to look pretty competitive.
Bill


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Follow Up By: Member- Rox (WA) - Friday, Jul 06, 2007 at 23:46

Friday, Jul 06, 2007 at 23:46
Shaker, dont get me wrong, I laughed at a bloke at 12 mile Katherine NT that told me I coudn't use a Houda EU10i but If I ran the diesel on Idel he coudn't say a word cause it's not called a generator????

noise is noise (I would have thought) except when 1 is called landcruiser & the other honda generator. Still scratching my head. Least the honda would put out less Co2.

It makes you wonder.
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Follow Up By: pt_nomad - Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 07:11

Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 07:11
Fair call shaker,
BTW - I don't run either.

My experience has been the most people who run generators run them to power the camp site and not to re-charge.

I would not have an issue with a generator being used to recharge batteries during the day in the same manner as suggested by idling the vehicle.

I have had several experiences of campers running generators well into the night to power their camp site. In same cases everything is done on the cheap so its a very noisy generator to boot.

Its probably fair to say their is a time and a place for every thing.

Paul.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 09:30

Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 09:30
I agree with you, but what times do most people shower?
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Follow Up By: pt_nomad - Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 12:32

Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 12:32
Hi Shaker ,
hijacking the thread a little here.
I'd say showers are mostly miday to late arvo.
I guess that the numbers of engine bay mounted showers are falling - aleast in the areas I got to.
I think the advent of collapasble shower tents and $20 submersible shower pumps and heads means people are less likely to go to the expence of vehicle mounted units.
A mate of mine has not remounted his engine bay shower unit as the above alternatives are very convenient - using a 20l drum on the fire for hot water the whole family can shower easily.
There is also the gas type hot water heaters available now.
Paul
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 13:56

Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 13:56
>but what times do most people shower?

6 to 8pm. I like to get into clean clothes to cook dinner and sit around the fire, it also means I go to bed clean. Couldn't imagine showering at midday.

Mike Harding - who's feeling poorly and sorry for himself - again!
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Follow Up By: deserter - Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 15:47

Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 15:47
The other day I had an auto electrician check what amps I was getting to the caravan battery via the Anderson plug while the car was idling. It was less than 2 amps. He said its a bit of a myth that the car will recharge a battery in a couple hours. Have since verified this with my van manufacturer - Kedron.
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Follow Up By: Flash - Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 17:29

Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 17:29
Too true,
deserter. Spot on!
And you won't get a lot more than 2 amps even at higher revs either!
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Reply By: Garbutt - Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 08:39

Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 08:39
We have done exactly what you are proposing Kwk56. And the little Honda running behind a tree at the end of a 20 metre extension cord is barelky audible in the day time, we run for about 2.5 hours and recharge everything and enjoy the silence at night. Of course we only need to do this in a fixed camp when we are not driving.

GB
AnswerID: 251161

Reply By: MEMBER - Darian (SA) - Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 09:21

Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 09:21
I use a Yamaha 4 stroke inverter gennie, and a 25A 3 stage smart charger for the same purpose as yours. Works well as a setup in my view - have not had to use it a lot - depends on weather and our vehicle movements - quite efficient overall - can't supply records of course but my guess is that I could fully charge both the aux in the car and the deep cycle in the car with 1 hour run each day (the Waeco runs of the vehicle aux - just a light or two from the camper battery). I don't run the gennie of course if it could be a nuisance to anyone nearby....... one word about smart chargers - the first stage sees a lot of energy going through - the heat sinks on the side get quite hot and will pop the thermal overload in hot weather (when we need it most !!) - so, when its hot, even in the shade, if the ambient is up around 35C, the smart charger is really dumb. A decent solar panel is indicated there of course, but how much gear should we cart around Oz ?
BTW - re camp lighting - smartest thing we ever did is get the little LED miner's lamps - with a smal LED on the side of the camper for the kitchen, we can survive using rechargable AAA bats for the headlamps - safety re kids would change the equation, but for careful adults, I reckon camp floodlighting can be avoided..
AnswerID: 251164

Reply By: Mike Harding - Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 14:05

Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 14:05
I have a gas fridge and (mainly) dual fuel lighting so I don't have the issues of 35A per day but my Amateur Radio pulls 22A at full power so I use a $98 GMC two-stroke and a K-mart/Jaycar battery charger (about $100). I usually charge my battery every two or three days during the middle of the day and the setup works well. However I always camp in remote spots so disturbing others is not an issue.

What chemistry battery are you using; SLA/AGM etc? Only an AGM will accept a charge rate of 15A for long - assuming AGM and assuming the Ctek really does produce 15A (it probably will) then 2.5 x 15 = 37.5Ah - job done. All sounds like a lot of expense, kit and trouble for 3 weeks per year.

Mike Harding
AnswerID: 251181

Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 14:23

Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 14:23
Another thought: (oh Gawd... I hear you groan :) given that, by far, your electricity usage is governed by your fridge and, as you only use it for three weeks per year, why not swap to one of the top two 3 way fridges:
www.grangerscampingworld.com.au/

You won't need a gen, solar panels or batteries - the light will run from the car or you could purchase a small 20Ah SLA battery and recharge it every 3 or 4 days from the car. Or go to a Coleman Dual Fuel?

12V are great if you are regularly on the move or have an expensive battery/gen/solar set up otherwise there is a lot to be said for the 3 way - especially if you camp in one spot for a few days.

Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 17:05

Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 17:05
Mike, I too have a generator, I also camp in remote spots, if anyone wants to set up close enough to me to hear the generator ..... then that is 'karma'!
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Follow Up By: lifeisgood - Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 22:06

Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 22:06
But then there is that inconsiderate mongrel who pulls up alongside at the devils marbles campsite pulls out the generator and immediately it (at 4pm) goes off on his walk finally shutting it down at 8pm.
Certainly thought about sugar in the tank that night! (thoughts only)
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 23:15

Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 23:15
According to Mythbusters you would have been wasting your sugar!
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Reply By: kwk56pt - Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 14:11

Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 14:11
Thats exactly what I am discovering its expensive unless you are retired or on a around australia holiday. Solar is the best option. I have currently N70 lead acid batteries, one deep cycle and the other is a starter
AnswerID: 251182

Reply By: sastra - Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 15:18

Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 15:18
Do yourself a very big long term favour before you buy the gen and charger.
I concur with the portable solar panel solution. I've seen them on Ebay up to 100w with reg, connections and bag for about a grand.
We have camper now all solar and is way more enjoyable than it used to be with gen. Even though we have used gen in parks, Nat. and others, complying with their requirements, you are not popular. We always turned ours off at least an hour before time ( most rules are 2100hrs ) and I can still remember the cheers and applause from neighbours in the non generator area at Karijini Nat. Park some years back.
We still have gen but left her and the stinky petrol and noise home last trip and it was bliss. One jackman at Ningaloo about 100m away upwind of us ran his all night until he was made aware the next night at 2200hrs how inconsiderate he was being by a very polite lady to whom sleep is sacred. He complied and was ok from then on. Having to speak up is annoying.
I am not anti generators, except 2 strokes, and might reluctantly be forced to use mine if travelling longterm and weather conditions were not favourable to solar.
AnswerID: 251186

Follow Up By: kwk56pt - Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 15:41

Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 15:41
I bekieve a 100 watts will run a autofridge but not a engel which will need closer to 160 watts. I think the panels need to be roof mounted on the vehicle, leaving them sunning themselves on the ground in camp while I have a swim or go for a walk, well I just expect the panels to dissappear. They are expensive and attractive. So the rack is another cost and with solar you either need a back up power or bigger battery capacity to cater for the odd overcast day etc.
So I am just getting into this extended bush camping to avoid the refugee camp / style caravan parks. It will only be used on a annual vacation as more driving is done on weekend and long weekend getaways.
I have to assume the reputation of gas fridges is deserved otherwise most people would have one rather than exciting their camping neighbours by trying to charge batteries.

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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 15:49

Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 15:49
>I have to assume the reputation of gas fridges is deserved
>otherwise most people would have one rather than exciting
>their camping neighbours by trying to charge batteries.

Given that they have been around for a _very_ long time and a major multinational company still manages to sell enough of them to justify the continuation of the product line perhaps you should assume, instead, that all the people paying up to $1400 for them are a bunch of idiots?

Don't believe all you read - especially on this forum, there is a product elitism here which needs to observed, long term, to be believed!

Mike Harding

mike_harding@fastmail.fm

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Follow Up By: disco1942 - Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 21:45

Saturday, Jul 07, 2007 at 21:45
Most of the poor reputation for 3 way fridges come from the badly installed ones in caravans - particularly the notorious 4401 (or was it the 4410) model. The only ones that I have experienced that were not running up to scratch were badly installed ones and correcting the installation cured the problems.

The portable ones will be much better in operation as they only have to be leveled and given sufficient air space and they will work well.

The detractors mostly have been the ones that have had bad experiences with van fridges and have not had guidance in correcting their installations (or have listened to the self opinionated ones who have passed on what amounts to 2nd or 3rd hand scuttlebutt.)

I suggest you listen to those who have used portable 3 way fridges successfully and you will save yourself $600 - $1000.

PeterD
PeterD
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Follow Up By: Ron George - Sunday, Jul 08, 2007 at 16:48

Sunday, Jul 08, 2007 at 16:48
Disco, re the bread maker, I was toying with that idea the other day, I`ve a trip coming up, remote for about a month, I do the damper thingy but nice fresh bread would be heaven, what wattage do they pull??? I`ve a honda IE2000 I reckon would do the job, but sometimes appliances with heating coils can catch you out.
Cheers Ron.
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Reply By: Muzzgit [WA] - Sunday, Jul 08, 2007 at 01:03

Sunday, Jul 08, 2007 at 01:03
Having a generator myself but regularly camping with a mate who has solar panels I am none the wiser as to which is better. I have to carry petrol and the gennie is heavy and a little noisey but my experience with the solar set up has not been favourable.

One thing gennies are good at is running a breadmaker while charging the car battery and the camera battery and the laptop battery, all while it's cloudy or raining or you're parked under a big shady tree!

My only problem of real concern with gennies is coming across morons who use them at night in roadside stops and let them run until they run out of fuel (usually after midnight). AAARRGGGHHHH !!!!!
AnswerID: 251269

Follow Up By: Mainey (WA) - Sunday, Jul 08, 2007 at 18:01

Sunday, Jul 08, 2007 at 18:01
You can't just go out and buy a Solar panel (or two) because it looks 'nice'

First you have to know what power you have to REPLACE on a daily basis.

Then you have to have a battery or batteries that can comfortably supply that power for a few days with-out needing topping up.

It will also greatly assist if the Battery is AGM technology, because they will recharge much faster than any conventional wet cell or sealed battery.

Is the solar regulator capable of delivering "equalising" and "boost" power or just the basic single "on/off" charge.

Then last but not least, the technology of the Solar panel has to be taken into account, will it work in low light conditions, what is the panels "efficiency" rating.

When you go shopping for a solar system you have to ask price last, as it will be the solar panel performance you need to know most about, not if the panel is 'cheap' usually if it's 'cheap' it won't perform.
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