Lack of Broadband and technology infrastructure.

Come on John stop talking so much crap....

How could that work, it's an election year WE can do anything.. LOL

:))

Hi Richard
Anything what?
Ohhh!! You mean get Singtel Optus to undertake a fibre optic roll out across the country, yep for sure just like they are so quick of the mark to build mobile infrastructure across the rural towns and cities of Aus.

Or are we suggesting that little Kevin Rudd will do it??

Don't hold your breath on either :-)

Read somewhere a while back that there is PLENTY of capacity between the capital cities especially on the Eastern seaboard. There was huge investment in the 90's, so much so that there is apparantly lots of "dark fibre" on the major intercity links. Capacity that is "dark" or idle because when they DID actually put in the long distance trenches they looked ahead and laid far more capacity than was needed because the cost of digging it all up to put MORE capacity in would be so much money and it was cheap to do it all at once. The major links are long since in and paid for.

The problem is that last couple of miles from the exchange to the houses. There is just not the density to support the investment in fibre to local streets. This is the hot topic with Fibre to the Node (FTTN) and is where Sol and his sidekick Phil are jumping up and down and chucking a tanty until they get a favourable regulatory environment (sustainable monopoly) to make it worthwhile to do the 4 billion dollar buildout and charge inflated wholesale rates just like they do with ADSL1.

Labour says they will build it using public money! Typical Labour - stick it on credit and work out how to pay for it in 20 years...

I do agree totally that the govt has done good by encouraging Optus/Elders to get a competitive network going in non-urban areas. We NEED competition. It might even be duplication but without it we only have a monopoly. Might stir Telstra to action to provide something decent rather than billions in profits.

We may never have the density advantages of a South Korea to get to stuff like Fibre to the Home but I am sure we could do so much better that what we have now! ADSL2+ is fantastic but only if you can get it. We are building a house in a brand new estate 20km from Adelaide CBD but our Telstra exchange is a tin hut on blocks and can support ADSL1 only and even that is patchy from what I have heard!

Muddy

Only joking John

The little Irish guy on teely is telling us that if we want faster BB. move to Japan .. lol

A lot of people go on about comparing Australia with the rest of the World. I agree with your statement, big land little people.

and by the way when we once again rule, boy things will be different, just you see :-)

Richard

I know that Richard :-)

So Muddy why not ring up Optus and ask them to build a new exchange??
In this market competitive environment it must be really worth while to stick all that money in and they can then let Telstra use the facility for a pittance.
The use of Melb - Sydney was just an example, maybe use the analogy of say Sydney to Perth would be a better example as its only about 4000 km's and say 1 million in Perth and 4 in Sydney and I don't think there is much in the way of dark capacity on that route??

Richard description is very adapt, "Big land little people" It also applies to other infrastructure like roads.

I do hope that if the Optus Elders scheme is built (WiMax) that it is not a repeat of the Cable Television rollout that literally cherry-picked all the areas that were 1)easy to do, and 2) had demographic profiles fat with potential high income customers.

Infrastructure investment takes years - In many places Telstra are still using the same old copper wires that were put in 50 years ago or more with minimal upgrades since. Yes they do have significant advantages in terms of installed base. But I do think they have sat on that as an advantage for far too long in the face of very little competition.

Optus is probably the only current local player that could do anything (even as part of this G9 group) but it will take time. I am a shareholder in Telstra and a multiple service customer but I still want to see other companies try an flourish a bit to get some competition in the market.

The WiMax proposal sounds like the quickest way to get an alternative network in rural areas (even though it is pretty much untested in this setting - No-one else in the world has tried it on the scale proposed here in Oz)

Whatever the case - I am just glad it is now a mainstream political issue because that is perhaps the only way that SOMEBODY will eventually make the required investment - public OR private.

Not disagreeing with anything you are saying John, I want to see good braodband everywhere just as much as you do. Just adding my 2 cents....

Cheers
Muddy

Don't read that crap below,, he will get over it.. like the way people can say thing without... .... .... {:)

Muddy have a look at the $1bil Optus/elders coverage map for their new wimax roll out. It is covering the easiest areas & a major double up of whats already there, even not covering areas that are already coverd also. Why as a Tax payer am I paying for that double up? Why as a Tax payer am I paying for a private venture at all? What would we all say if the government gave $1bil to Singapore Airlines to come & compete with Quantas on the Australian routes?

I personally don't understand why this is such a "Major" issue, there are a lot of other issues that have been promised to be fixed & are still in a shambles. But all of a sudden BB is the most important thing there is. What about our Roads, Hospitals & schools? or wont we need them anymore if we have 100Mb BB to every home?

ddr,

I don't see how you can claim 'major double up' based on looking at those high level maps. It's not necessarily the 'easiest' areas being covered, it is the areas where there are reasonable numbers of population where they cannot currently get service. More remote areas are already covered by satellite and will continue to be.

The tender from the government is to provide BB to 'underserved areas' - that means areas where there is no service or not enough to go around. Explain how that is 'doubling up'? The whole idea is to get service to people who do not currently have access to it. So you're not paying for duplication.

And I should know - I'm working on the rollout. The $1billion hasn't gone to a foreign company - it has gone to a domestic company that is a joint venture between Optus and Elders called OPEL. They have management of the money and have to account for every $ to the government - all Optus are providing is the experience in telecommunications, access to IT for ordering and billing the services and providing access to the backhaul network that Optus already has in palce across the nation to help make it work.

Steve have a look at the Tel$stra coverage, opel is covering the area already covered today, how is that not a double up? Also by saying "It's not necessarily the 'easiest' areas being covered, it is the areas where there are reasonable numbers of population" So in other words the easiest areas where most profit can be made.

& Optus is a totally Australian company now? Since when? Has anyone told Singtel?

Where do I say Optus is an Australian owned company? OPEL is a company that is Australian, as opposed to SingTel which is foreign. OPEL is an Australian entity that is in partnership with Optus and Elders - OPEL will be paying Optus for use of its IT and backhaul capabilities (depending on the solution that we implement), OPEL is certainly not run by Optus or SingTel or even Elders (it receives input from these entities).

If you look at the OPEL coverage maps, it identifies locations of existing ADSL and ADSL2+ coverage, and yes there are some areas where it already exists but it does not cover all of the population in those areas (i.e. the area is underserved by Telstra) - by far the vast majority is in areas where there is absolutely no coverage at present. Also, you are assuming that because an existing area of coverage on the map is ringed by an area that will be covered by WiMAX that the existing area will also be included? That's a pretty big assumption for someone who does not know exactly how the infrastructure will be installed........

Hmmmm!!!

It looks like a Optus, It smell like a Optus well I'll be damned, It is an Optus!!

However you like to spin the ownership of OPEL it is still Optus.
You could use the same argument on its own right to say that Optus is an Australian company just because it is registered in Aus, when the ownership is Singtel a company who's majority owner is the Singapore Government.

The argument won't change, they won't supply infrastructure to areas that won't be viable in the long term.

Well, a lot of people here seem to know a lot about something they have absolutely no involvement in!!! Perhaps as an expert actually involved in the field - and the actual project - I should just take advice from here...;-)

"The argument won't change, they won't supply infrastructure to areas that won't be viable in the long term".

You don't even know what the terms of the government tender were, so how do you know who decides where the infratstructure goes?

As said before, the tender is to provide services to underserved areas - these areas are already identified by the government, so how do you figure anyone else decides much about where it is going to be rolled out? The tender responses were reviewed by the government, and the winner decided based on factors such as their expected ability to rollout the network and their coverage of the areas the government feels require it.

The money has gone to OPEL as the joint venture company, not to Singapore (or even Elders - which IS an Australian company), and OPEL has to account to the government for how and where every dollar is spent in delivering the network and services - whether to Elders for their part of the solution or to Optus for theirs. Even the payment to Optus means the money stays here, as the infrastructure and services the money pays for actually take place here not overseas.

Perhaps you might want to wait until it is rolled out and delivering services before you complain about presumed things that have not yet been completed. There is still a lot of discussion and negotiation going on that will determine a number of aspects of the network, so why people are complaining already is beyond me.

"I also agree with Sol and support his stance, as one example if Optus (a foreign owned company) wants to compete then let them compete on an equal footing and build their own network not ride on the coat tails and be subsidised by a majority owned Australian company".

Ahh, how quickly people forget.

The Telstra copper network was built by the government (they owned Telstra remember) before the company was privatised - sure they have added bits and upgraded exchanges to new DSL technology, but the vast majority of the network was already there and handed to them on a platter when they became private.

So how does that put them on an equal footing with any company (not just Optus) trying to take on the encumbent and provide competition?

Best thing the government could have done would have been to retain ownership of the physical network and sell off the retail and business parts of Telstra, rather than the whole lot - you'd have real competition then, along with probably a whole heap of FTTN already as well.

Yeah yeah that argument about the copper ownership continues Steve, it continues to be raised by the foreign competition that wants to pick the eyes out of the communication network in this country.
The counter argument is that the copper network was valued as part of the original structure of Telstra and sold to the Australian share holders when Telstra was made a public company so now that infrastructure is owned by the Telstra share holders.

If Optus or anyone else want to use it then fine, but let them pay a commercial rate accordingly and that commercial rate does have a discount component built in allowing for the original infrastructure cost, but they still whinge.

The point is everyone is quick to blame Telstra for not providing the infrastructure but Optus can also install the equipment required if it so wants in the exchanges etc if it wants. so the question is why won't it?

:-)

Boobook

That's exactly what we're finding. Many of the Exchanges are enable, but Telstra won't release the service.

Regards

Kim

What a stupid statement.

If Australia livend in its own little internet world then the comparison of speeds and content would be partially valid. BUT you dont get it. the internet is global. Maybe you are ok with your commodore 64, but for the real world business have to comepete on a world basis and high speed internet is one tool that helps.

It is not a fasion stalement, it is becoming like water and electricity.

Go back to commodore, dial up and your other dead technologies. Pr go back to Sri Wanka...DH

So why don't Optus build an exchange to service your needs?
Or is that pure penny pinching on the part of Optus?

Ask Optus, not me.

Stevesub

We build DSLAMS in the TEBA space of Telstra exchanges to provide broadband access.

No-one builds new exchanges unless there is a new suburb built (or an existing one expanded beyond anyones wildest dreams) that cannot be serviced by an existing exchange.

Your the one complaining and quick to blame Telstra.
You ask Optus why they won't add capacity to the exchange?