Standard Wiring & Plumbing layout for caravans?

Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 07, 2007 at 12:22
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I'm thinking about buying a really cheap caravan (say less than $4000) & rebuilding the interior. Caravan will be mostly parked at a holiday site somewhere but i will occassionally tow it somewhere else for holidays. Hence I was wondering if anyone knows where i can find some good wiring & plumbing layouts as a start point for my rebuild.

It will take me a while to do the rebuild so want to install the core wiring/plumbing components first & then build on it over time (so i dont have to radically alter the core wiring/plumbing each time i add another component!)

Some of the considerations i am thinking of are:
Wiring: ability to operate off 12v only if required, hence mostly 12v wiring/appliances but with a couple of 240v outlets off an inverter (for maybe a small microwave & small TV?); couple of 12v batteries onboard, provision for multiple external charging/supply sources (12v from car or solar panel, 240v from c'van park or generator). BTW how do you get the 240v appliances to automatically switch to the 240v external source when available rather than still go via the inverter?
Plumbing: really just a kitchen sink ... & shower for SWMBO. 12v pump for both sink & shower. hot water supply (instant?).

Anyway ... if you know where i can get my hands on these sorts of plans as my start point that would be great (did a search on google but couldn't find what i wanted)
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Reply By: Member - Matt Mu (Perth-WA) - Tuesday, Aug 07, 2007 at 15:35

Tuesday, Aug 07, 2007 at 15:35
Drew, sounds like a good plan and while I cannot help you directly with any plans....there is a good book written by a motor home enthusiast/electrician from years ago that has some very good plans.

Sorry I cant help more Google may.

One point to note...I found out when I did the same with a camper trailer, bought a very basic model and built the rest myself.

I now have the entire trailer powered up on 12v, including lighting at kitchen and tent, Pioneer CD player, 12v power outlets and a stepped battery charger. Then additionally I have a 240v power system that the 12v charger plugs into. So if I have power the 12 v system is charging and I have 240V power outlets positioned around the trailer.

Otherwise I just have 12V and nothing really redundant.

Works a treat but it was very hard to find anyone who was willing to install it due to mixing 12 and 240v systems.

I think the regulations are pretty strict and you must be a certified electrician to do any work whatsoever.

I designed the system and got my electrician father to check before and after the install and has been on there for four years now.

The system is 15amp (most camp-sites require this) inlet with ELCB and double pole switching...this is recommended in case you dont know what the supply you are using is switched on active or neutral.

All the best with it...sounds like a project.

Matt.
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Reply By: Member -Dodger - Tuesday, Aug 07, 2007 at 17:47

Tuesday, Aug 07, 2007 at 17:47
Try here for many interesting articles.

http://www.caravanandmotorhomebooks.com/articles/index.htm

Have a good read.
I used to have a handle on life, but it broke.

Cheers Dodg.

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Follow Up By: Member - Matt Mu (Perth-WA) - Tuesday, Aug 07, 2007 at 17:56

Tuesday, Aug 07, 2007 at 17:56
Ahh Dodger...you just beat me to it..after a search I found the link to Collyn Rivers a very informative read!

Cheers!

Matt.
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Reply By: Camoco - Tuesday, Aug 07, 2007 at 21:20

Tuesday, Aug 07, 2007 at 21:20
Hi Drew,
I am currently doing what you are about to start. I bought my van (well it's for the in laws and they bought it but I'm stuck with it) for about $4000 and gutted it completely.
We went for a '73 Millard alum frame dual axle 17.5'. A great starting point.
I replaced all windows, roof, a-frame (was too short), all interior sheeting and roof framing, door, electrics (you get the picture).
I have almost finished it and it will have been twelve months since starting, just working weekends (almost all of them).
It now has new roof with galv steel frame to support air cond and two all seasons vents, tinted screened windows, shower, toilet, all interior furniture, 12V lighting and appliances, two 80w solar panels, 190L 12v fridge freezer, roll our awning, electric brakes, etc. Oh, and it's fully insulated too. I was pedantic about insulating everything and everywhere for noise and temp.
The shower uses an instant electric HW system and a 12v pump from the two fresh water tanks. The HW system is 240V though and you need the genny or land power for it. No probs yet.
I have used 12v throughout for all applications except for the microwave, air cond, HW, and a few powerpoints and one light (ext).
I use the solar for charging the two 100a/h AGM's as well as via the 240v inlet using land power or genny. This is an automatic arrangement.
I had many people suggesting to charge also via the tow vehicle but as this van is intended to be used by many family members, it was not practicable to do it for all so none were setup.
As such, the fridge can and does operate solely from solar (as I use it even when at home for a "refreshment storage". I also use the lights, LCD TV, CD player and water pump via the batteries, and only freshen the charge up if actively using the van (opening the fridge many times a day etc.) via the genny or land power.

All in all it has been a large undertaking building a van for free for someone else from almost the ground up.

Was it worth it? I think so, especially as it is still less than $20k for a basically brand new custom made van setup exactly to suit the owners and it is safe electrically and mechanically as well.
I just have a few woodworking bits to do (the cupboard doors etc and a new rear bumper, tyre holder, and a new front boot to house the gas bottles, hoses, and odds'n'ends.

Electrically, I had a sparky run all wiring 12v and 240v and fit safety switch and cb's and all new gear has been used.
I thought I had it all worked out before I started as I modelled it all in 3D first, but as you build things change. (reversing camera was a notable forgotten inclusion). I do not use an inverter as I have no need (yet).
I bought Collyn Rivers books, and while great for motorhomes etc, they didn't seem to provide me with the answers I was looking for for a van rebuild. I am not sure anything would have :).
Plumbing was not installed prior to wall sheeting except for the shower and I ran it through the internal wall and through the floor, same for the kitchen. All other plumbing is under the van but protected by sheet metal sheeting from rocks.

Don't forget to take heaps of build photos, especially before covering anything up. Makes drilling into the walls and avoiding the
electrics that much easier.

Hope this helps.
Maybe one day I will produce a historical build document of it, but I am sure once it's finished, so will I be.
AnswerID: 256314

Follow Up By: Member - Drew T (Melbourne) - Wednesday, Aug 08, 2007 at 09:56

Wednesday, Aug 08, 2007 at 09:56
wow what a massive effort!!! I'm not looking to do such a major rebuild (hoping the roofing, windows, interior sheeting etc will be sound enough (even if not pretty enough) to keep) but obviously there will still be a lot to do.
couple of questions for you though:
- did you install a combined shower/toilet? what type of toilet? (i was thinking of a separate toilet & just using the porta potti i already have to keep it simpler
- what brand fridge did you go for & is it just 12v?
- what brand of roll out awning did you find best?
- is your LCD TV 12v?
- what is the 'automatic arrangement' you have for the charging system selecting between the solar & 240v inputs? are there any obvious choices for 12v/240v charging/switching gear?
- what type of 12v lighting did you go for .. 1w LEDs?

- was there a particular supplier that you found particularly useful / comprehensive?
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FollowupID: 517414

Follow Up By: Member - Drew T (Melbourne) - Wednesday, Aug 08, 2007 at 10:01

Wednesday, Aug 08, 2007 at 10:01
sorry but one more question while i'm on a roll ......
- what aircon system did you use .. one of the caravan type or a small domestic house unit (i notice that a few folks find the power draw of the smaller units acceptable but i'm not sure where they find the space to put the compressor unit)
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Follow Up By: Camoco - Wednesday, Aug 08, 2007 at 11:04

Wednesday, Aug 08, 2007 at 11:04
No worries Drew,
Firstly the "original" intention was do do just what you intend to do.
But that changed as the project drew nearer.

The shower is custom made by me using lamipanel and timber framing but using laminex jointing and sealing goo. The toilet is just a porta potti that can be used in the shower for privacy (and smell evacuation as it has a powered vent) or it can be taken outside etc. It is stored either in the shower or for travel it is stored under the bed in a galv steel "safe" leakproof box. easy to get in and out when required but with enough bunding to contain a possible spill.

The Fridge/freezer is a 12V only 190L Isotherm that was being imported by Evakool on the Sunshine Coast. It is a marine fridge and now works very well with only about 4amp draw when in normal use. It can draw 6amp when operating from a warm start. We had issues with it at first with not cooling the fridge area but that was two reasons, one being sitting around not being used for 12 months. That doesn't happen now. It feels just like a domestic fridge to use but doesn't have the baggage. I fully insulated the housing for the fridge and it vents with assistance of an additional 12v fan when required from the floor to an outlet on the side. I do not have side louvre vents for the fridge cavity.

The roll out awning is a Dometic 9000? series with the permanent roll cover to prevent aging of the material in the sun when not in use. This awning is too easy even the oldies can use it. Sets up in under a minute easily. (colours also match the van). I looked at others but the deal and operation of the Dometic were too good.

The TV is just a 12v Vue from major retailers. No inverter and it comes with it's own car adaptor that I chopped the end off and installed a 12v plug for use with our 12v wall sockets (same as the Fridge).
The automatic arrangement comes from the BP solar charger and the 3 stage 240v charger that work well together. All major electrical supply items came from Derek Bester Affordable Batteries a sponsor of this site.
All main power is 12v from the batteries. These get charged by solar constantly (during daylight) and topped up by the 3 stage charger whenever 240v is present.

Lighting is 12v (except one 240v outside light just in case of battery failure) with a 12v incandescent entry light/handle, 12v halogen downlights for mood and direction and the remainder are 11/18w fluoros. These came from Camec. Walk around pick what you need.

The Air Con is a Dometic roof mount. Their biggest non-reverse cycle but with a heater element that works well. I figure if you are going to have enough power for the Air, then you have enough for the heater element. It was on special for $1000. Much cheaper than any other reliable alternative and is meant to be banged about. That is the reason I went for a steel framed roof rather than Millards timber framing. I cannot understand why they have an aluminium frame walls then use timber in the roof???

The only issue with the roof mount is the extra running height it generates. Mustn't forget to know your total van height when clearance gets tight.

I looked at domestic reverse cycle cheapies but in the end they just didn't suit versus the gamble of failing compared to the roof mount that distributes the air along the ceiling better than the others as that's where it starts.

You and I didn't mention TV aerial either. I have been avoiding this issue for two reasons. One, when the sheeting was not yet on i forgot about it. Two, there are many expensive options to choose from. In the end I opted for a through the wall connection and manually place the fold up aerial on a pole mounted to the draw bar. For the small amount of free to air TV watching we do it is a good solution. Mostly watch DVD's whenever the chance is available.

Sorry for the long winded reply but there really isn't much deep info about in one location.

I cannot suggest that the methods and solutions I have used are the best or the cheapest, but for me they have been worthwhile. I am not sure if I would change too much a second time around (other than not doing it of course).

Hope that helps
Feel free to ask again.

Cheers Cam
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FollowupID: 517421

Follow Up By: Member - Drew T (Melbourne) - Wednesday, Aug 08, 2007 at 11:25

Wednesday, Aug 08, 2007 at 11:25
thanks Cam, that give's me heaps of background as a start point to do some detailed planning. looks like i have a bit of work ahead of me

cheers ... Drew
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FollowupID: 517427

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