Amptech 120 A/H AGM for Mainey

bugga - wrong button!

This page seems to support Mainey. No mention of AGM anywhere there! Just plain ol Deep Cycle Sealed Lead Acid.

{Reaching for popcorn}

Muddy

Muddy, I've got wide shoulders, I accept that people make honest 'mistakes' lol

But I find it hard to accept that Derek would still have what appears to be the obvious facts wrong, as I have pointed out the same web page 'appeared' to be showing incorrect information some months ago.

Post 254555 Submitted: Thursday, July 26th 2007

Does popcorn go well with Bourbon ??

My thoughts exactly,

but seems Mainey is our resident expert.

Perhaps he can lock horns with Derek when he comes back, and take it up, maybe involve David too eh?

Derek is a good advertiser on here, and I have had good service from him in past and bought a few things from him.

So I'm not slating him, although it would appear others are.

I'm over with this post, I have a product I'm happy with, why others have to jump uninvited into the ring, and kick it off is beyond me.

Yes I know I posted Mainey in title but I cannot find the initial thread where he joined in, on a comment from one of Mike Hardings posts about bush tucker in his new Chescold.

Anyway, I spend too much time camping to give a.....

So I will bow out and leave Mainey to argue with Derek.

I'm happy with my setup.

PERIOD.

Ron, yes you invited me, or baited me, to your thread by using my nic.

I can see no useful purpose in your statement "he can lock horns with Derek" and why would I want to "maybe involve David too eh" as I believe neither want what you have suggested.

I can only assume as you say "others have to jump uninvited into the ring, and kick it off is beyond me" because they know something about AGM battery specifications and realise that when a manufacturer states a battery is a particular type they should be able to rely on the written technical information given as being correct.

When the written technical specifications do not add up to expected AGM specifications, they then ask questions.

As I told you previously in the post you can't find, the 'advertised' internal resistance and also the self discharge rates of the advertised $313, 120 AH AGM battery do not equal the general specifications of AGM batteries, but yes, they are similar specs to 'common' wetcell batteries, this tells me the battery then has the specifications of a common wetcell battery, so why would anyone pay the much higher price of an AGM battery, only to get low specs of a common wet cell battery ??

You have stated you only paid $220 from a different battery supplier for the exact same battery Derek has advertised for $313, fortunately I don't believe Derek would sell a $313, AGM, 120 AH battery for only $220.

You also say your $220 battery has a 200AH label on it, but "the rep has informed you it's only 120AH" and you say it's a "huge" battery, yes all this information is from your lost post, and indicates you don't have the same battery Derek has advertised at $313 as his battery is a 'standard' sized footprint battery.

Makes you wonder what you buy when you don't even have the correct label on the battery, because there is only it's physical size to give you some idea, but then how do you know if its a Common wetcell, VRLA, SLA or AGM battery ??

Just too many questions and no logical answers.

You need to get out more

Ron,
your correct, I do need to get out more, I only travel 5 or so months of the year and I have to take the gf to Kho-Sumui & Penang in late October for a fortnight, I really don't 'have to' - I want to, she look so hot in a bikini, lol


But first, some posts about your battery intrigue me as they don't appear to be technically correct :-((

AnswerID: 256011 Submitted: Monday, Aug 06, 2007, Ron173 replied:
Was out this weekend with both sucking off my 120 a/hr agm.

FollowupID: 520861 Submitted: Wednesday, Aug 29, 2007, Ron173 replied:
Battery is an Amptech, and its HUGE in physical size.

FollowupID: 520896 Submitted: Wednesday, Aug 29, 2007, Ron173 posted:
Dunno?, was told it was an AGM, paid $220 for it.

FollowupID: 520999 Submitted: Thursday, Aug 30, 2007, Ron173 posted:
Mainey, same battery elsewhere was $285.
It actually says 200ah on side, but rep says its 120 and got wrong sticker on it.
Its biggest batt I ever had, and it was a tight literally sliding fit in the biggest box I could buy.
Top has the handles as part of mouldings, and nothing else on it apart from the lead poles, totally flat, no plugs or even vents.


Ron,
the 120AH Amptech battery is only 33cm or ~11 inch long.
Yes, the same size as a 'normal' Cranking battery, so they are not "huge" at all, just 'normal' and they will fit into any normal battery box.

Derek's battery is $313 not $285 and is not "huge" but just the 'normal' Cranking size battery.

Yes, maybe you do have a 200AH battery after all :-)

But, you say the battery label is wrong ?
Maybe if you actually measure the dimensions you will then see what it is, because some batteries have to be charged at different rates, but I'm sure your battery supplier advised you about the correct charging methods for the battery he sold you.

The "invoice of sale" must have the name & size of the battery on it, yes for WARRANTY purposes.

Does it have a 6 month warranty or 12 month ??

As I said so many puzzling and un-answered questions !

Got any other details on it??

Thanks Kev

Norm,
I'm not a bad person, or trying to hyjack a thread started by Ron using my name ...

However, reading the technical specs actually written on your Alco battery, is your 120AH Alco battery rated @ the 10 hour rate ? ?

Mainey, Due to the way I have the battery installed in the Hilux, I can't give you the exact detail from the side of the Battery, and I don't feel like pulling it out at the moment. But when I bought it, Val Rigoli from Fridge and Solar (the supplier) pointed out that the battery is rated at the 10 hour rate and not the normal 20 hour rate.
So yes, it is the 10 hour rate.

Norm,
they are shown on the ALCO website as "20 hour" rate.
So yes, the ALCO website tech specs are wrong.
As you, Val and I know they are only rated @ 10 Hour.

(120 ah @ 10 hr)
is different capacity to
(120 ah @ 20 hr)

Mainey, your statement 'they are only rated @ 10 Hour', suggests this is a bad thing. In fact, a 120AH battery rated at the 10hr rate will generally have a higher actual capacity than a 120AH battery rated at the 20 hour rate. A battery rated at the 10 hour rate may have 10 to 15% more capacity than a similar battery rated at the 20 hour rate.

This is due to the Peukert effect, where the faster a battery is discharged, the less AH available for use.

Suspect you may have known this, but since your post may be read to suggest a 10 hour rate is inferior to a 20 hour rate, I thought I'd attach this in any case as these things hang around in archives and appear in searches for a long time.

The following (copied from the net) explains this a bit better than I could.

Why amp-hours are specified at a particular rate:
Because of something called the Peukert Effect. The Peukert value is directly related to the internal resistance of the battery. The higher the internal resistance, the higher the losses while charging and discharging, especially at higher currents. This means that the faster a battery is used (discharged), the LOWER the AH capacity. Conversely, if it is drained slower, the AH capacity is higher. This is important because some folks have chosen to rate their batteries at the 100 hour rate - which makes them look a lot better than they really are. Here are some typical battery capacities from the manufacturers data sheets:

Battery Type 100 hour rate 20 hour rate 8 hour rate
Trojan T-105 250 AH 225 AH n/a
US Battery 2200 n/a 225 AH 181 AH
Concorde PVX-6220 255 AH 221 AH 1 183 AH
Surrette S-460 (L-16) 429 AH 344 AH 282 AH
Trojan L-16 400 AH 360 AH n/a
Surrette CS-25-PS 974 AH 779 AH 639 AH

Sorry I tried to format the table, but a bit hard.

Norm C

Norm,
I've used the word 'only' to indicate a lesser number only, and not as a reference to being any disadvantage, and did not mean to denigrate the term, I'm sorry for any misunderstanding :-))

I truly don't believe the 10 Hour rating is 'bad' or any word with a similar meaning, because my own 2 x 100AH AGM's are 'only' rated @ 10 hour, and yes, that does make them higher capacity than 100AH @ 20 hours, hence I often refer to them as 200+ah.


As you say to compare 100ah @10hr with 100ah @20hr, the current draw changes with the loss of capacity and internal resistance with-in the battery.

The batteries, current draw and testing methods (time) have to be "identical" to be compared accurately and if there is any variation it alters the equasion, as you have posted.

Geez Derek,

confusled? just a bit.

You know the battery I eventually purchased and I recall you actually told me it was a great battery.

Wether its an AGM or not? remains suspect... hence Mainey getting a bit concerned, why I dont know?.

Anyhow it works fine for me, and runs an engel 40ltr on fridge and a Waeco 18ltr on freeze, and the 60w Kyocera seems to keep up, and on a sunny day tops out on fully charged.

No doubt Mainey will tell me that its not possible or something, and I'm running a nuclear reactor to keep up.... LOL

Some people get just a tad too serious.

So just for the record, (and I am not really too fussed on outcome) is it an AGM or not then (Dereks reply only requested)?

I'm really not phased either way as it does the job perfectly well with everything I can load it with.

And I thank you for your help Derek, my dual battery system I bought from you works a treat too.

Rgds

Ron

Hi Ron

I have not seen the battery and you are welcome to send me a picture.

I would say you have the AT121200D AGM Battery.

Regards

Derek.

Derek,

found receipt, yep thats the one AT121200D, big bugger too.

thanks

Ron

Thanks too Ron

Perhaps I will receive an apology from M. I seem to have been bashed without reason above.

Derek,

Dont hold your breath, I should be due one too, but dont see it coming.
I copped all this for owning a 'non AGM' battery, and in a previous post I couldnt find.

Regards

Ron

Ron,
your initial post, to which I replied stated ->

"" Its from Derek's site, and is the battery I was actually going to get from Derek ""

This is obviously the battery in question, because Ron, YOU claimed it's shown on Derek's web site and YOU included the web address with your post

Battery LINK 120AH AGM battery 331x173x230h


Ron, there is NOT an AGM 120AH battery the SAME physical size as the battery pictured on Dereks web site, look at the specs Derek has posted for you...
the list only shows a 'common' SLA battery at that size !!!

and you wonder why people get confused ..


Derek, are the technical specifications with the web site picture correct, or are they only relevant to a (non agm) 'Deep Cycle' battery ?

Derek,
This is NOT a 'you verses me' thread ??

My current Amp-Tech product catalogue, as also the present Amp-Tech web site, does not mention any AGM batteries.

I don't have access to any old price lists to compare products that were imported by SuperCharge previously, but I'm aware no AGM batteries were delivered to any distributor here in West Aussie or NT or SA.

Can I suggest that the price paid by Ron of $220 is below the Wholesale price and he got a clearance bargain.

As you have not replied to my post above, can I ask you why the addition of the term "Limited Stock - Phone orders only" as placed on your web site recently against the Battery Ron "wanted to buy" from you if the stock is not now as you say - limited ?

M

Ron did get his AGM at almost cost price but not below wholesale.

I bought the last few (Ritar) 120 a/h AGM's from QLD branch last week. I only have 2 left hence not allowing customers to pay for items via the website and then be told they are 4 weeks away.

Supercharge Batteries have informed me the next container is 4 weeks away after which the "ADD To CART" button will re-appear.

D

Will these new batteries be the same specs as those advertised presently ?

Is the 120AH AGM battery advertised only the "normal" size battery of 331x173x230h - as shown on the website ??

OR

Is it a larger footprint battery ??

M

Supercharge have told me they are the same. They are coming out of the Ritar factory. Yes they have a square footprint the same size as the top.

Specs are on my website.

Please call Supercharge direct if you have any further interest in the batteries.

Contact person is Les Hicks (Qld state manager) 07 3711 8900

D

Derek,
my stock catalogue shows the 120AH battery as being larger in physical size than the 100AH battery, as you would expect.

So obviously the SuperCharge battery specs catalogue is wrong...??

Ummm, so the SuperCharge website is also wrong too... ??

Ron claims his is a "big" battery, so he's also wrong ??

Derek, let's not get into a blu about this, as it is a simple thing to measure the two batteries in question, one will be larger than the other, and I don't believe the 100AH will be larger than the 120AH battery, and I don't beliueve they are the same size footprint either.

You say "Specs are on my website"

They tell you a 120AH battery is only ~33cm long, when the SuperCharge website claims ~40cms, so you believe the SuperCharge website and also the catalogue is wrong too ??

The point is, if someone has a battery tray that can only handle a battery up to ~36cm long, then will a ~40cm battery fit - the answer is .. no, it won't fit.

You have advertised a 120ah battery that is claimed to be only ~33cm long.

Mainey,

dont you get it???

your the only one running with this, everyone else has given it up, I almost had too but for the annoying repetitive emails in my inbox.

I dont wanna know.

Derek doesnt wanna know.

Your the only one with an issue.

Why dont you just forget it, who cares??

We dont care or give a ???? what you think.

Derek sells good batteries.

I got a good battery.

Why dont you go buy one n give us all a break about your boring footprint analysis???

Who cares??

get a life, go see your super hot gf, and give us peace, were all sick of your pathetic wingeing over nothing.

Fair dinkum youd argue witha sign post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

leave it alone, no-one cares.

Ron,
You started this thread, you used my own Nic in it's heading, you wanted to make a statement.

All I wanted was questions answered, is that so unreasonable ??

Unfortunately your 'information' you have posted about YOUR battery actually CONTRADICKS, and is NOT relevant to the same battery that Derek has advertised on his website, that you have stated, YOU wanted to buy.

I will clarify it a bit better for you, and make it easier for you to understand... (I will type a bit slower, lol)

(A) Your 120AH battery is a different PHYSICAL size to Derek's !
(B) Your battery has "battery posts" each end - Derek's does not !
(C) Your battery is only $220 - Derek's is $310+ and he won't sell them for $220 and also stay in business.
(D) to tell you to buy a battery elsewhere just to "avoid paying freight" is totally unrealistic
- reason being, I live in West Australia and I have sold Batteries & Solar Panels to (various) forum members, at 'mates rates' in both Sydney and in Melbourne at the EXACT same price as I charge here in West Australia, which is cheaper than they can buy them 'locally'

Ron, as I said in the beginning, there is NOT an Amptech 120ah AGM battery that is the EXACT SAME SPECS as is shown on Derek's web site, the List Derek has posted (above) actually proves that absolutely and beyond ANY doubt at all, if you can't see that then I Ummm....

That is the battery we are talking about, the battery you wanted to buy, and YOU have said your battery is a different size (footprint) to Derek's battery - not me !!

If you can show me I'm wrong - please do so, and yes I'll apologise !!
But, please keep it to definitive FACTS not your own opinion.

I don't believe I'm arguing with anyone, I'm only asking questions and getting no answers !!

As to getting a life... I enjoy mine, so does she, lol

As to your last statement "leave it alone, no-one cares"
Your wrong, I do care :-))