mounting spotties on an ARB roofrack

Submitted: Tuesday, Sep 11, 2007 at 20:09
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G'day all, seeing I will be doing some long night drives to collect our truck once its fixed I am loking at mounting some spotties on the front of our ARB roofrack on our 100 series, has anyone been down this path, I want to keep the wind deflector on the front if possable so it will involve cutting some slots in it to have the mounts pass through it.
So if anyone has "been there done that" could you pass on your experiances, good or bad.
Thanks.
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Reply By: Stu-k - Tuesday, Sep 11, 2007 at 20:40

Tuesday, Sep 11, 2007 at 20:40
The guys in the blue light taxis will have you, spot lights are not meant to be higher than your headlights
AnswerID: 261605

Follow Up By: BennyGU - Tuesday, Sep 11, 2007 at 21:13

Tuesday, Sep 11, 2007 at 21:13
Depends where you live, as far as I know, in the great slightly less regulated state of QLD there is nothing preventing them being mounted up there. Check out any 4wd magazines and you will find alot of trucks with them up on the roof rack, Overlander 4wd have the Genuine Land Rover spotties on thier sydney based RR Sport TDV6 roofrack..........4wd monthly have similar on many featured trucks...........

Just like the rod holders on the bullbar (they are alllowed in QLD if they do not protrude beyond the 'line' of the vechile, mine are mounted with the tubes just above horozontal permantly but are about 2mm within the vertical line from the leading edge of the bullbar, some 'smart' young copper tried to have a crack at me about it during a RBT and was presently surprised when I produced a webpage from the Dept of Transport and then proceeded to show him just how close I was to the line :) he waved me on rather quickly!) I think there are alot of misconceptions about things like this.

I have been 'thinking' (dreaming) about putting a few Lightforce 170s on fatsos roofrack and was just wondering how/where the electrical connections are made. Are the wires run up the inner guard, under the windscreen surround and out below the snorkel or another way?????
Also as the roof rack is not permantly mounted (surfboards :)) is there any way to have snap clip thingy so I can drop the rack on connect up the wiring in a few secs and have a dash mounted on/off switch?

Go the Wallabies!!!!!!!!!
Ben
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Follow Up By: Rock Ape - Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 12:10

Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 12:10
Yep can't mount them up there legally, sorry you can as long as you don't use them on road, also think of the amount of reflection you get on your bonnet
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Follow Up By: Member - Andrew (QLD) - Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 15:12

Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 15:12
Hi Rock Ape,

Where does it specially say that you cannot use them? Read the following document and make an informed judgement:

VSI_G_1.0_Auxiliary_Driving_Lamps_Fitted_to_Motor_Vehicles

Andrew
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Follow Up By: Rock Ape - Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 19:21

Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 19:21
Andrew
Yep, must admit I am living in the past, your right I couldn't find anything to say you can't mount them on the roof.



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Reply By: Grungle - Tuesday, Sep 11, 2007 at 21:00

Tuesday, Sep 11, 2007 at 21:00
I will second that. We had to have a stowable folding light rail on our 4wd comp trucks. Reasons were that they had to be road registrable to enter competitions (except for tyres) and this meant that the light bar had to pivot backwards so that the spotties were below the line of the roll bar and not facing forward.

Check your local regulations though as some states will accept light covers on them as acceptance that they will not be used on the road.

Aside from the legalities, I have seen antenna mounts (c-clamps or wrap around types) used to fix the spottie to the roof rack. Better than welding tabs on and wrecking the powdercoat.

Can also buy a single roof bar like Rola or Rhino and mount them to that. That way they are easily removed if need be (if asked by the Police) and stowed. Bit harder if mounted on the roofrack.

Regards
David
AnswerID: 261614

Reply By: the mightyQ - Tuesday, Sep 11, 2007 at 21:37

Tuesday, Sep 11, 2007 at 21:37
Yeah! Ok Rod, you got me and what are there, if any, reasons to have spot lights on the roof?? Or do you want to join the rest of the dill bricks. What? your normally mounted spot lights are no good? Use your head maybe some brighter bulbs would be a better idea

andy
AnswerID: 261626

Follow Up By: BennyGU - Tuesday, Sep 11, 2007 at 21:46

Tuesday, Sep 11, 2007 at 21:46
True you could do an upgrade on the current spotties but the height at which the light is mounted does not change (also a decent HID conversion would easily be the cost of a decent set of spotties). My thinking comes up with the theory that the higher up the light the greater spread of the beam and hence greater chance of seeing skippy at a greater distance, any got anything different???

Dont make lighthouses 100 feet tall for the fun of it.....
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Follow Up By: Member - Willie , Epping .Syd. - Tuesday, Sep 11, 2007 at 21:55

Tuesday, Sep 11, 2007 at 21:55
Benny ,
I don't agree with you , sorry .
Willie .
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Follow Up By: BennyGU - Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 08:28

Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 08:28
Willie
you dont agree with me, cool, but whats your reasoning?.
Not being a smart @rse just wanting to know, that all :), as the bucks of 4x Lightforce 170's could be spent else where if the reasons are tangible.

Ben
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Follow Up By: Member - Willie , Epping .Syd. - Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 10:12

Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 10:12
Ben ,
The higher up the light , the less spread of the beam . It can spread out further the lower it is . I can never see why people mount them on racks unless it is too point them down to see just in front of them - and even then , without the light being a flood type , the lit area is very small .
Cheers ,
Willie .
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Follow Up By: robak (QLD) - Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 17:10

Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 17:10
Benny,

I don't agree with your reason either BUT, I think there is a legitimate reason for having the lights on the roof.

A conventional light sits BELOW your eye height, so that your viewing angle of the road is greater then that of your lights.
What difference does that make?
Well, your lights will not be able to shine into potholes in a road. So you will see the pothole but it will appear black and you cannot judge it's depth. I am sure we've all experienced this off-road. A similar situation will happen when going over a crest of a hill. You will see over the hill, but your lights will not shine there.

With lights on the roof (ie, above your eye height), every hole that your eyes can see will be lit up and cleary seen.

But there is a draw back, and I am guessing that this is precicely the reason why roof lights have been illegal for so long (until 1st July 2007).

When on a road going over the crest of a hill, your roof lights will "dazzle" the driver in the oppostie direction long before you see their standard lights and realise that they're there. And according to the legislation, if your lights dazzle other drivers, you can be fined.

So if you can't use your roof lights on any road, the only reason to have them on the roof is for show (and when on private property.

From Transport Operations (Road Use Management—Road
Rules) Regulation 1999

219 Lights not to be used to dazzle other road users
A driver must not use, or allow to be used, any light fitted to
or in the driver’s vehicle to dazzle, or in a way that is likely to
dazzle, another road user.

further reading:

http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/T/TrantOpRUVSSR99.pdf

http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/T/TrantOpRURR99.pdf

R.



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Follow Up By: BennyGU - Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 20:26

Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 20:26
"A conventional light sits BELOW your eye height, so that your viewing angle of the road is greater then that of your lights.
What difference does that make?
Well, your lights will not be able to shine into potholes in a road. So you will see the pothole but it will appear black and you cannot judge it's depth. I am sure we've all experienced this off-road. A similar situation will happen when going over a crest of a hill. You will see over the hill, but your lights will not shine there"

I stand corrected :)
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Reply By: Mike - Tuesday, Sep 11, 2007 at 21:48

Tuesday, Sep 11, 2007 at 21:48
Firstly, the lights will be illegal if used on the road.

Second, if you do use them, you should paint your bonnett matt black, roof lights create a terrible reflection and really take a lot of getting used to, to the point of being a serious distraction.

Happy trails, Mike
AnswerID: 261629

Follow Up By: Member - Coyote (QLD) - Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 14:19

Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 14:19
If lights on the roof are illegal then whay is that Jeep and Landrover are able to sell vehicles with them already fitted by the factory? I'm in Townsville and I would say that about 30% of 4WDs up here have lights mounted on the roof. I find it hard otbeleive that the police are ignoring all these 'obviously illegal' vehicles and no one ever gets pulled up for it?
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 17:07

Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 17:07
The police seem to ignore all the vehicles that drive with their wanker/fog lights on in clear conditions.

The law clearly states that they are to be used only "in inclement conditions"
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Follow Up By: Member - 'Lucy' - Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 17:38

Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 17:38
First thing I do when I switch the lights of my 05 JEEP on is LIGHT UP those fog lights.

Best piece of illumination apparatus known to mankind other than HID'd which I am told aren't to bad either.

I am sure the police had better things than to do than worry about whinge-ing 'haroldites'.


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Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 19:08

Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 19:08
I was merely making a point about lack of police interest.
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Reply By: Member - 'Lucy' - Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 00:57

Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 00:57
"The lights will be illegal."

Nup! can't agree with that one as there are vehicles now imported with just that configuration.

JEEP for one.

Its no problem placing the lights up there as long as they don't interfere with the drivers forward vision and are firmly fixed to the vehicle.

The PROBLEM comes into play when you turn them on.

There are a few rules and regs re the turning on thing, which if you don't comply with then you may may find yourself knee deep in chit, and words like 'un-roadworthy' being bandied around.
AnswerID: 261655

Follow Up By: Middle Jeff - Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 09:18

Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 09:18
Lucy, the lights will be illegal, the Jeep you mention had to replace the globs with low wattage and call them clearance lights, so they could sell them. The law is very specific on lights, that’s why there was a problem with the 100 series that 4wdrive monthly did.

Have fun

Craig
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Follow Up By: Member - 'Lucy' - Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 10:34

Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 10:34
Craig

Yes & No


No - they are not illegal to mount up there as I said before.

Yes - there are problems with wattages, switching controls and where and when you can use them plus alignment, if and when you power them up that is.

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Reply By: Member - Rod M (NSW) - Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 09:14

Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 09:14
OK sorry, I should have added that they will be removable, not permanantly mounted, the reasoning behind the use is I will be doing an all nighter with a trailer & 4 drivers over to Oodnadatta. More like a 2 & 1/2 day'er. Once we leave the leafy confinds of the city I want to be able to have good night vision for obvious reasons, Yes I know the lights will be above the 1200mm height requirements for NSW, but once we get away from the busy streets of most country towns there won't be many people to dazzle, I have a pair of twin hella work lights on the roof of our truck & they give great views of skippy's country cousins lurking in the table drains way out west.

I want to get the same security for the 100 on this trip,
Now for the upgrades, yes I have HID lower beams & have retro fitted my IPF's with a kit as well, but you still cannot see into the shadows in the drains where most strikable objects appear from, forget for a moment that I may, in your view be terrarising the mertopolitan area at night blinding people, hell my cruiser is not even a daily driver, I just want to have good vision on the long "outback" night haul.
One may ask if I'm that worried about hitting wildlife to 1, not drive at night, sorry but we do a lot of night driving, hence the HID upgrade, it's a good way to travel many 100's of boring miles, 2, fit a shoo-roo, sorry again but I've seen the result of people driving with these thing blindly into the night thinking they are protected only to slam into a bullock, goat, sheep or other animal that was too stupid to understand that the noise meant they should have been running for the hills.
I don't want to offend anyone, blind anyone or cause an accident, I just want to protect my investment & friends who will be assisting me in my journey.

Thanks for your input.
AnswerID: 261675

Follow Up By: Middle Jeff - Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 09:30

Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 09:30
Hi Rod

Craig from Triple Diamond, how are you going.

I know you are going to do this so the only help I can give you is make sure they are far enough back so they do not light up the bonnet or bull bar ( the glare will hurt your eyes within an hour ) and if you have any shiny aerials cover them in electrical tape. As far as mounting them and if it is not a permanent thing, something like water pipe clamped at either end. You could run the cable down your snorkel into the engine bay and plug them into a relay off your other spotties, or high beam, and make sure you have a good battery.

Have fun

Craig
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Follow Up By: Member - Rod M (NSW) - Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 11:40

Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 11:40
G'day Craig, how ya going, long time no hear / see, yes I will end up doing it regardless of what people say or think is right.

How is the club going, please hit me off list for a catch up.

I know about the wiring / switching, I've been doing my own auto elec stuff for years, it was more to see if anyone had mounted any lights on one of the ARB racks & if so had there been any particular fitting or bracket they had used.

Cheers.
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Reply By: brushmarx - Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 09:47

Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 09:47
Hi
Many years ago, I mounted roof rack spotties on a Mini Moke for a trip around Qld.
The higher mounting gave a better perception of the depth of potholes and ruts than the lower mounted lights, which tend to show shadows in much lesser depressions.
The lights has stone mesh protection and I had to stuff alfoil in the bottom to block out light on the bonnet and a couple of metres in front of the vehicle.
Can't help in your specific query on the 100 series, but I found the concept and practicalities of high mounted lights well and truly worth the effort.
Cheers
AnswerID: 261679

Reply By: DIO - Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 10:37

Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 10:37
Driving, Spot or Fog lights are illegal to operate if mounted on the roof. If you are relying on what you see in magazines as a guide to what is correct and legal THINK AGAIN. Just because someone else might do it is a pretty poor reason for you to decide to break the law. If someone else kicks their dog, beats their wife, abuses their kids, steals from their boss, and so on are you going to do it as well? If you consider wildlife and wandering cattle a likely hinderance to you, then you always have some choices such as slowing down and not driving at night. Mate most vehicle with a decent pair of driving lights mounted down on the bull bar have more than sufficient light to provide them with an excellent view down the road.
AnswerID: 261684

Follow Up By: Member - Rod M (NSW) - Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 12:22

Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 12:22
DIO, is that your name or just how you hide your identity, please explain if they are illegal then why are there 4wd's & semi's on the road that have them as standard fittings when imported ? & freely available to be used. Jeep & Scania.
No I am not relying on anything I have read in any magazine anywhere & who are you to tell me weather or not I should /could /would break any road regulations.
I DO TAKE OFFENCE TO BEING ACCUSED OF KICKING ANY PET, BEATING MY FAMILY IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM & I DO NOT STEAL FROM MY EMPLOYER, Yes i'm shouting because you give me the bleep $.
We travel at night over long distances because we choose to, this is after all still a free country, I do not travel at high speed's because of the chance of striking something that will wander onto the road into my path, I do have good lights at present & yes they are great but there is & always will be the chance of not seeing something that will walk up from the table drain in front of you, we have hit wildlife in the past, I know many country people who have, some with shoo-roo's, it very common away from the bright lights of where ever it is you live.

This thread has cause way too much heated debate seeing all I was after was some simple answers to my question, "mounting spotties on a roofrack"" not weather they are safe / legal / going to cause owls to get cancer or anything else. I did'nt & don't need to be preached to by those who see themselves as the right & just over all.

I thank you for your input ,but I will not bother responding to any further reply's.

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Follow Up By: Member - Andrew (QLD) - Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 14:59

Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 14:59
Unless i am mistaken it is NOT illegal everywhere to fit driving lights to a roofrack in most cases. Obviously as long as it complies with all applicable standards then it should be ok eg doesn't break the following rule (varies somewhat from state to state): "Not capable of causing glare to the driver directly or indirectly by illuminating the vehicle or reflecting of mirrors or other surfaces" etc.

In general the various states seem to shy away from any one standard, rather stating as long as it doesn't impede the ADR, then it is acceptable. For instance, the queensland standards, found Here state that "There is no individual height specification for the fitting of driving
lamps."

If it is illegal to install on the roofracks, then by all means state the relevant Standard/Clause that is being violated. If not, then please respect others opinions without resorting to abuse etc.

I'd like to see a photo when finished Rod...should look good, if nothing else :-)

Andrew
(responsible forum member, unlike some others) ;-)
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Follow Up By: Pnut (cns) - Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 15:09

Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 15:09
Dio, for once on this forum, get of your high horse & respond to the question (i.e regarding mounting spotties on a roofrack). You don't know the people you respond to, so stop judging them as if they are second class citizens who should know better.
Given some of your previous dribble, it is hard to take any replies with the word 'DIO' in it seriously.
Lighten up, and go back to providing a CONSTRUCTIVE answers.

Cheers
Mark
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Reply By: Member - 'Lucy' - Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 16:18

Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 16:18
This is how I do it.





If necessary and when I am back home its a matter of undoing two nuts, dis connect a single electrical fitting ( all of 3 mins) and remove them.

These are Ironman Supa-Nova HID's which turn night into day by frying a gnats eyeballs at 500m.

The other noticeable effect is that the roo's in particular just sit there staring and to date haven't made any effort at all to move into the path of the vehicle.

They are operated by the headlight h/beam switch and also have their own isolator on the dash.

Reflection has been taken care of by painting the top of the bonnet black.

AnswerID: 261726

Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 16:50

Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 16:50
They're illegal anyway, driving lights have to be fitted in pairs!
The ADR 7.3.2.1. states .... Two or four.

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Follow Up By: Member - 'Lucy' - Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 17:23

Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 17:23
Shaker

Do you mean like this





1200mm from ground to centre and 600mm between centres on the top ones.

Exactly legal


Anything else you would like to comment on
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Follow Up By: Member - John L G - Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 19:01

Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 19:01
Lucy

Forget the spotties Lucy, but am interested to know whats lurking under your bonnet.

It's either a V16 with triple super dooper super charger stuck on top or is it a 1940's long stroke diesel running at 1000rpm

Curious!!!!

As for lights, who cares how many, just keep squeezing them in until they fall off the end of the bar methinks :-)
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 19:09

Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 19:09
Isn't that 3 across the top?
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Follow Up By: Member - 'Lucy' - Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 19:14

Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 19:14
Shaker


Oh! my wordy lordy yes!, indee I dood I day Yes!.

The 2 x 2 on the front equals 4 which satisfies your regs.

The three on top are just extras - in case type of thing.

Like extra spare tyres/wheels.
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Follow Up By: Member - 'Lucy' - Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 19:17

Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 19:17
John LG

Something like that. Secret Lucy Business at the moment.

However just set Roachie off - its had another compliance plate added in the last week or so.

One that his vehicle doesn't have.
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Follow Up By: Member - John L G - Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 19:21

Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 19:21
Love it !!!!!

Keep me posted lol :-)
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Follow Up By: Middle Jeff - Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 19:21

Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 19:21
Hi Lucy

Do not get me wrong, I do not care if you have a hundred lights, I just know that in NSW if you upset a boy in blue he will defect those lights. The bottom set are the closest to being legal but if you want to be picky the tops stick out past the profile of the bull bar (but this will depend on the year off your car), the two on top off the bar, forget it they are too high, block vision and outside the profile of the bar and the ones on the roof are too high and not in a pair.

My point here is I do not care how many lights you have just do not advise others it is legal.

Have fun

Craig
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FollowupID: 523193

Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 20:29

Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 20:29
Good looking truck Lucy :-) nothing like a Troopy eh?

I currently have 2 driving light on my roof rack and when Uncle Eric AKA Rock Crawler finally remembers to order them I will change those two for 4 Light Force 170's.

After driving all over the country no copper has ever worried about what I have or don't have and contrary to what others may think they do make a difference being higher up.
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Reply By: Shaker - Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 16:54

Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 16:54
If it is so important to have multiple driving lights, why is it that the vehicles that do most miles at night in the Outback, ie. Road Trains, usually only have one set of driving lights?
AnswerID: 261731

Reply By: Member - 'Lucy' - Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 17:33

Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 17:33
Just as an aside to the hysteria this post has caused to the forum 'haroldites', I have just returned from the local shopping centre and whilst there purposefully took notice of what driving-light set up the 4WD had.

Over 50% had some sort of arrangement up on the roof, and a lt of others had the bull bar arrangements with the new plastic fantastics all having these 'murderous' fog lights.

Rod there was a 100 series there with an ARB roof rack with 4 low profile driving lights fitted between the top and bottom front rails of the r-rack.

All this dude had done was drill a hole (approx 8mm) in the sheet of steel that leads back from the bottom front rail, just in behind the rail.

The Light fitted in there perfectly.

No idea how he controlls them though.



AnswerID: 261736

Reply By: Kev M (QLD Bound) - Thursday, Sep 13, 2007 at 13:16

Thursday, Sep 13, 2007 at 13:16
Rod,

Have you tried to use the work light mounting brackets for the rear of the ARB roof racks. They seem to be low profile so you should be able to fit them under the air deflector

see pic below they are front mounted Light force lights



Hope this helps

Cheers Kev
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