Battery Advice

Submitted: Wednesday, Sep 19, 2007 at 17:13
ThreadID: 49858 Views:3606 Replies:6 FollowUps:9
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Have done some research on this but doing a last check round. I am goint to buy a 12v battery, mount it in a plastic case with external power outlets and use it to run my 110ltr fridge when camped up for a time. I will re-charge the battery using a Projecta 3-stage automatic charger hooked up to a generator for a few hours per day while camped. The generator will ultimately be replaced by a solar panel to keep the battery topped up but insufficient funds at present for this one. I want a sealed battery and ideally something with a minimum 80amp hours rating. The cost would ideally be no more than $350 for the battery and I don't want to have to replace my battery charger to suit it. I am located in Perth so the supplier would ideally be in Perth.

So, what battery do you recomend?

and

Do you think a few hours re-charge per day will be enough to keep the fridge going? (fridge will be running all the time with ambient temps around low 30's during the day and 15-20ish at night)
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Reply By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Wednesday, Sep 19, 2007 at 18:33

Wednesday, Sep 19, 2007 at 18:33
Robert, an ideal battery for your proposed set up is an AGM. Read about them here if you are not familiar with them:
Fridge and Solar AGM Info

Lots (and lots) of info available on this site too if you do a search.

Whether a few hour a day will be enough will depend entirely on what size charger you use and how much power you use during the day. A major factor in power use is ambient temp. Your fridge will work much harder (run more often) in temps in or above the 30s.

For your size fridge (assuming you will also run some lights and stuff as well), I'd be going for a 100 or even better a 120 AH AGM, combined with a 20 or 25 Amp charger.

If you have a 120 AH battery and run it down to 50% (should not run it down more than that regularly), you will need to put in 60AH. Wiith a 20 Amp charger that will take about 3 hours on bulk charge to get to the click over point to the final stage. Battery is not fully charged at this point, but close and not worth running generator to get it all the way up as the charge will have cut back to just a few amps.

Using 60 AH in a day is a reasonable expectation with a fridge of this size, particularly if you are heading North.

Norm C

AnswerID: 263012

Follow Up By: Member - Robert G (WA) - Thursday, Sep 20, 2007 at 09:39

Thursday, Sep 20, 2007 at 09:39
Thanks Norm, thats great info to have and pretty much what I was looking for.
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Reply By: Faulic_McVitte - Wednesday, Sep 19, 2007 at 21:58

Wednesday, Sep 19, 2007 at 21:58
may find you need to sell your Waeco 110 and buy a smaller fridge as my friend did. Was impossible to keep the power up to the 110L as they use 75amps in 24hr
AnswerID: 263053

Follow Up By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Wednesday, Sep 19, 2007 at 22:22

Wednesday, Sep 19, 2007 at 22:22
Never has a Waeco 110 litre (or any Waeco for that matter), but this test":
Waeco 140 litre test

Showed that at a room temp of 26 to 20 degrees C, a 140 litre Waeco used 42.2 AH in a 24 hour period with fridge running at 5 degrees C.

On this basis, my guess is that a 110 litre would use 35 to 45 AH, depending on how often it is opened, how often hot stuff is put in, the temp it is running at and most importantly what the ambient temp is.

Can't find their rated current draw when compressor is running. If I could, it would be just a matter of maths from there, using reasonable assumptions.

Not saying you are wrong and it would never draw 75AH. Set the fridge temp low enough and the ambient temp high enough, open it regularly and keep putting hot beer in and I'm sure you could make it draw even more.

But based on the Fridge and Solar test and reasonable assumptions, I suspect 75AH is a tad high for normal use.
Norm C
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Reply By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Wednesday, Sep 19, 2007 at 22:37

Wednesday, Sep 19, 2007 at 22:37
Found the specs:
Waeco 110 Litre Specs

110 litre draws 3.5 to 3.6 Amps when running.

Use whatever assumption you like to calculate AH per 24 hours.

On max with compressor never switching off, it would use 86 AH.
At 12 hours per day it would be 43 AH.

I'd be planning on being able to supply it with 40 to 45 AH per day. Add a bit for lights and a margin of error and you get to about 50 to 55AH per day required. This supports my earlier post of needing a 100 to 120 AH battery and a good sized charger and the need to charge every day.

AnswerID: 263058

Follow Up By: Muddy doe (SA) - Wednesday, Sep 19, 2007 at 22:40

Wednesday, Sep 19, 2007 at 22:40
115AH Trojan wet cell runs the 40 litre weaco just lovely for up to 48 hours. pulls about 25-30 AH per 24 hours in average conditions. So am guessing a 110l would do about double that!

Muddy
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Follow Up By: Lochmonster - Thursday, Sep 20, 2007 at 11:48

Thursday, Sep 20, 2007 at 11:48
Hi Norm. Mate, you seem to be a font of knowledge for fridges/amps so I am after your advice if you wouldn't mind.

I'm running my engel 40 ltr off the dual system, deep cycle. I'm not sure of the amp draw but I have attached one of those 'two-way' sections to increase fridge area by about half.

I understand the engel is now working harder, and it's not as cool in the additional section as below, but I accept that and can work with it.

Do you have any idea what the unit would be drawing now? And how can I test what it is drawing?

Thanks mate.
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Follow Up By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Thursday, Sep 20, 2007 at 13:49

Thursday, Sep 20, 2007 at 13:49
Loch, you assume too much. Although my first trade (via Army apprenticship many years ago) was Electronics Technician, I am a looooong way from being an expert. Bit of basic knowledge added with life experience.

Your 40 iitre Engel should draw about 2.5 Amps if working well before your add on. It will draw the same now, but will run more often due to the increase in area to be cooled. Assuming a good seal on the joins and lid after the add on, I'd be guessing that you would be using close to 50% more AH now than with the standard fridge.

I've never used one of the 'two-way' add ons, but my understanding is they are more for keeping fruit, vegies and the like that needs cooling, but not necessarily at the 4 degrees or so that yo probably run the fridge at. That is, they are not intended to be as cool as the fridge, so yours is probably working as it should.

To confirm that the fridge is drawing around 2.5 Amps when running, the best thing is a clamp meter which has jaws that you open and put one of the cables in. This is really the only way to measure Amps without breaking the circuit to put a metre in series. They are pretty expensive, but most auto electricians should have one, so a friendly one might do a quick measure for you if you ask.

The biggest issue though, is how long and often the compressor runs for. This will be the main factor driving your power consumption.

I'm guessing that if you previously used about 30 AH per day (fair rule of thumb for a 40 litre Engel I suspect), you might now be using 45AH or so.

Lots of guesswork here, but I suspect I'm in the ball park.

Don't know if any of this helps, but that's about the limit of my knowledge and guesswork on this.

Norm C
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Follow Up By: Lochmonster - Thursday, Sep 20, 2007 at 13:59

Thursday, Sep 20, 2007 at 13:59
Thanks Norm,

Mate, you have helped shed some light on the subject and I appreciate that.

You're right, we'll be storing items like salad, etc in the top component, stuff that doesn't require the 4 degree's (that's for the beer).

As for your 'appy school' days, won't hold that against you cobber, us type of the light green are everywhere!

Cheers

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Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Thursday, Sep 20, 2007 at 00:44

Thursday, Sep 20, 2007 at 00:44
Robert,

An AGM battery will suit your purpose very well.

Last time I did some checking you can get a Fullriver 80Ah (HGL80-12) for about $220, or an Absorbed Power 75Ah (GT12-75C) for $260. I bought the Absorbed power because it's footprint allowed me to fit it in the car cradle, but you won't have this restriction.

Oh, and the Battery Charger you mention.
I have a 15 amp Projecta 3 stage unit and they work very well. They suit both wet cell and AGM style batteries.

The AGM battery should reach a full charge in 3 hours or so, even running the fridge while charging it.
Bill


I'm diagonally parked in a parallel Universe!

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AnswerID: 263071

Reply By: Member - beachbum - Thursday, Sep 20, 2007 at 08:24

Thursday, Sep 20, 2007 at 08:24
Robert I run the 110 Waeco off an AGM90 Ap (Purchased from Sam at Weipa Auto Electric) and live in Central Qld with most travelling being in the north and thus with reasonably high ambient temperatures most of the year and find that by running my Honda for around three hours per day and having the fridge connected to 240v and the charger (currently a Mobitronic MBC-1200A) direct to the battery I have no problems. Prior to buying the AGM I have used wet cell 95 A/h batteries with a variety of fridges for around 30 years with no problems. It is imperative that all cabling is sufficiently heavy to create a minimum voltage drop between the battery and the fridge. I have found that the plug where the power is connected to the Waeco can be a source of problems if it gets the least bit dirty so include it my regular pre trip maintenance schedule. I hope this helps and is reality and not just a comment as a lot of replies here can be.
AnswerID: 263094

Reply By: Member - Robert G (WA) - Thursday, Sep 20, 2007 at 09:41

Thursday, Sep 20, 2007 at 09:41
Thanks to all who replied. Got the info I was looking for. I am heading out to look for a battery this arvo and will be settling on a 100-120a/h AGM.

cheers
AnswerID: 263106

Follow Up By: Mainey (WA) - Thursday, Sep 20, 2007 at 12:18

Thursday, Sep 20, 2007 at 12:18
Maybe the technical specs are "100 Amp Hour"
B U T
the rate at which they are measured is just as important as the AH number, if it's measured @ 10 hours then it's 100 Plus (+) Amp Hours.

Make sure it's a DEEP CYCLE AGM battery and not a Cranking agm battery etc.
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Follow Up By: Rowdy6032 - Thursday, Sep 20, 2007 at 18:25

Thursday, Sep 20, 2007 at 18:25
Hi Robert

I have just been down this track.

I ended up with a Remco 100AH AGM from Batteries Plus in Cannington for $264. This was about $100 cheaper than some of the others.

Prices were about to go up.

Also if Cargills is still open they had Engel Battery monitors for half price as they are closing down.
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Follow Up By: Mainey (WA) - Friday, Sep 21, 2007 at 09:30

Friday, Sep 21, 2007 at 09:30
quality batteries, Remco, used by most Winnebago dealerships
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