Try to work this out.

Submitted: Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 10:49

ThreadID: 49961 Views:4728 Replies:12 FollowUps:21

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Steve from Top End Explorer Tours

In order to protect children in Aboriginal communities Mal Function has changed the law in regards to Alcohol in the NT.

This in itself is not recent news, but work this out:

The fact is I can get take away at the Jabiru Golf club as I am a member, but it is cheaper to buy it when I'm in Darwin.

If you buy more than $100 worth of alcohol you have to fill out a form including your name, address, and were you intend to drink it, in other words if I buy bulk beer and wine in Darwin to bring out to Jabiru I have to fill out the form, this is now recorded.
And if I go to Darwin and buy more bulk beer and wine I fill out another form -- and I now could be considered a Grog runner.

Here is another doosy, All of Kakadu and Arnhemland is Aboriginal land, so you cannot consume alcohol on Aboriginal land.
Remember, this is to protect Aboriginal children, the only problem is that west of the South Alligator River you have an exemption because there is dispute as to who owns what.
Jabiru and Cooinda are exempt because they are a different lease. Spring Peak outstation is exempt because it falls within the disputed area. Spring peak outstation allows alcohol to be consumed by its Aboriginal population.

The rest of Kakadu that locals and visitors can acces are now alcohol restricted, any outstation in the restricted area was already a dry area, the only other place you can drink alcohol on Aboriginal land is in your boat fishing in the restricted area.

So I can't go to my favourite camping spot in Kakadu and sit around the camp fire and have a beer, and neither can you.

As I said ALL Aboriginal land is alcohol free, EXCEPT if the community already had a licence to allow you to obtain alcohol or if there were lisenced premises, EG: Oenpelli has a licenced premises and still serves alcohol today.
Maningrida has a system that allows residents to obtain alcohol and you can also get a permit to drink alcohol on Melville Island.

So what I can't figure out is that all Aboriginal land that wasn't affected by alcohol is now alcohol restricted -- but the Aboriginal land that had an alcohol problem can still serve alcohol or allow you to obtain a permit and there are no alcohol restrictions.

Cheers
Steve

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Reply By: Steve from Top End Explorer Tours - Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 10:57

Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 10:57

Map:
http://www.facsia.gov.au/nter/docs/map_detailed.pdf

Overview and exceptions to the alcohol bans:
http://www.facsia.gov.au/nter/legis_alc.htm

Cheers
Steve

AnswerID: 263573

Reply By: Crackles - Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 11:05

Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 11:05

So if I get this right Steve it is possible to drink grog around the camp fire if you park your boat close enough & sit in it :-))
They are trying hard to stamp out the alcoholism but obviously have no idea how to do it & in the mean time tourist opperators who have clients that like a drink are being treated like 2nd rate citizens.
Cheers Craig..........

AnswerID: 263575

Follow Up By: Steve from Top End Explorer Tours - Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 11:49

Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 11:49

Hey Crackles.

yeah if you put your camp fire on the bank, you can sit in your boat and have a beer.

As a guide I can supervise my clients having a drink.

Cheers Steve.

FollowupID: 525174

Reply By: Hairy (NT) - Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 11:33

Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 11:33

Gday,

Thats not all, now the "grog card" is comming in, probably not a bad thing IMHO, but not on top of all the other laws that have proven to be a complete waist of tme and inconvienience.
(try living South of the Bemriha Wall) yes I mean WALL the line we could step over, so Clare has built a wall!
Heard the one about Austar??? Looks like getting cut off in the Territory, comes under the new Porn laws.
At least they got this one right....Under the new grog laws the police can go into a house and arrest anyone on Aboriginal property if they are drunk! I know Im going to get crucified here, but think about it.....the other night the cops were getting called out to Hoppys camp continually because uf the usuall fights, assuults (on Ambos going to help), thefts, rapes, fires...you know the story, and know one else could get help from the police when they were getting broken into, assulted, cars stollen, property graffitied etc etc etc, because the police were getting attacked at the town camps.
So...know they get a complaint....go to the premisis...get told to F%$# off you white pig! and they grab them (all of them) and lock them up. This then frees the police up for the night. So when Im getting attacked by the "BLOODS", "CRYPTS" and any other pathetic spineless gangs that now walk the streets of Alice (assulting the elderly from the front and anyone else from behind)
you can leave your gun in the safe get the Mrs. and kids in side and call the police, and actually expect them to turn up.

I agree a lot of the new laws are put in place with no thought and realy have no affect, but why are they making them? I know who is really causing the problem...me ...because Im funding it!

Yeh if you havent gathered from that, things arent getting any better down here..LOL

Cheers

AnswerID: 263578

Follow Up By: Member - Lionel A (WA) - Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 15:14

Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 15:14

Jeez mate,
And I thought that crap only happens in my town....lol.

Lionel.

FollowupID: 525205

Follow Up By: Member - Clive G (NZ) - Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 18:56

Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 18:56

Hairy.
I know what you mean, but it’s not just an NT (or Alice) problem, You could take your description and apply it to a lot of small towns and bigger city southern burbs in New Zealand. This of course doesn’t make it any better or worse but just demonstrates the hopeless situation all politicians (except the hand ringers) are up against. Same thing, Bloods, Crips and other wannabe gangs, oh for a machine gun licence. Booze (Grog) and P (ice) is behind it all every where coupled with a well founded belief that they are untouchable. I have been in Alice many times and know your problems well, but apart from one incident I have felt safer there than after midnight in my own town.
Regards. CliveG (NZ)

FollowupID: 525227

Reply By: Hairy (NT) - Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 11:50

Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 11:50

Rainbow valley was bought up on here before, here is the latest in the paper

Dont know if I can make this work? But here goes..

AnswerID: 263583

Reply By: JimDi - Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 12:06

Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 12:06

According to the Courier mail this morning three young men aged 2x17 yr old and 1x18 yr old were pulled over by police with a ute load of grog purchased by their parents. $2000 all up, some 19 cartons of beer. Heading for a weeks holiday on an island off Brisbane.
I have no experience of the Northern communities or their problems,so can only take the various Govt's word for that.
Love a beer myself especially when out bush. But perhaps we should all take a step back and have a good look round as the drover having his breakfast said.
JimDi

AnswerID: 263588

Follow Up By: BIG_red87 - Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 12:52

Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 12:52

that's some pricey beer - $105 a carton!

FollowupID: 525185

Follow Up By: JimDi - Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 12:59

Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 12:59

I gather that the load was not all beer. Might have been a few bottles of the heavier stuff as well. Assuming the Courier Mail report was correct.

FollowupID: 525186

Follow Up By: Pezza (Bris) - Tuesday, Sep 25, 2007 at 10:31

Tuesday, Sep 25, 2007 at 10:31

This IS a newspaper we're talking about here, it was probably only 1.9 ctns at $20 before the sensationalist proffessionals got at the story.

Cheers
Pezza

FollowupID: 525465

Follow Up By: BIG_red87 - Tuesday, Sep 25, 2007 at 11:10

Tuesday, Sep 25, 2007 at 11:10

haha newspapers being sensationalist...never!

FollowupID: 525469

Follow Up By: JimDi - Tuesday, Sep 25, 2007 at 11:53

Tuesday, Sep 25, 2007 at 11:53

I know what you blokes mean about the sensationalism of the press etc. Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
I was watching the young blokes being interviewed on TV, suddenly because of the adverse publicity and their age the faces have to be blurred. But apparently the story is close to the truth.
Residents on North Stradbroke Island (Qld) are sick of schoolies coming over and wrecking the place. These young blokes were now claiming they did not intend to do any harm. Just drink 19 cartons of beer and several bottles of spirits over a week. Where's the harm in that, some people might say.
I dont care what they or their parents do or say, as long as it is not next door to me.
JimDi

FollowupID: 525479

Reply By: Member - JohnR (Vic)&Moses - Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 12:22

Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 12:22

Steve, you are trying to make light of a Commonwealth legislation where Mal Brough is trying to overcome a lack of action by the Territory Government where it has some control. I don't have sufficient knowledge of communities you do, but I am sure that Brough has to use a broad brush approach. It has been interesting seeing other states come into line to support intervention, even though it may require some tuning. There are a lot of communities that have come to support the intervention, despite what can be seen as irregularities.

You are asked to have your clients comply with a form of Responsible Serving of Alcohol Legislation that all states ask hotels to comply with and having guests in our homes we should also. It is in your interests to do so having a market to satisfy and continue your business and do the same, even though you have compliance issues. In the businesses I am involved, compliance is a daily issue as is beeing seen to comply. It is a fact of life, I have to get used to that.

Quote - "The fact is I can get take away at the Jabiru Golf club as I am a member, but it is cheaper to buy it when I'm in Darwin." What is new in that? Beer is cheaper in Melbourne than locally, petrol even more so, and diesel even greater differential.

As I said above, you know the irregularities of particular communities that I couldn't possibly know, but the irregularities are different now. We know it was irreguar under the previous community rule. It will take time to get it the same across all the Territory. You hadn't expected to hold your breath about that I imagine. Like so may issues, you can work your way through it I guess.

AnswerID: 263589

Follow Up By: Steve from Top End Explorer Tours - Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 13:03

Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 13:03

John

I am in no way making light of this, 70 % of the beer or wine I buy is at the golf club, but when I go to Darwin I may buy bulk because it is cheaper, I was just making a point that now I could be considered a grog runner.

I don't serve alcohol on my tours, but if I did my clients would be exempt and I wouldn't.

The Territory Gov initiated these changes and asked the Fed Gov to help, A 200 page document of the findings was put on Mals desk and he never read it before he made his changes, I know this for a fact as I was told this by one of his advisers.

In fact Mal thought there were only 16 communities in the NT and that they were all affected, the fact is that there is over 200 communities in the NT and 90% of these are dry, My point still remains in the fact that in most of the areas that were affected you can still get or sell alcohol and the areas that weren't affected are now restricted.

Mal Brough, Dave Tollner and Senator Nigel Scullion voted on a 500 page legislation without reading it their own admission.

So am I making light of the new laws and legislation based on the fact that they won't and can't work, Or is Mal Brough making light of the changes he hasn't even looked at.

I'm not worried how it will affect me, but how it is still affecting those that it was put in place to protect.

Cheers Steve.

FollowupID: 525187

Reply By: Member - Doug T (Qld) - Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 13:38

Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 13:38

Steve
Just another case of Government Stuff Ups, I don't care what Party is in Federal,State, or Local they can never get it right first time, with some issues it's 2nd and 3rd as well .Who remembers the bungling with HF CB, 23ch, then 18ch instead of 40ch in the first place, Pay TV Cables hanging everywhere instead of Sat' , like the movie "Never Ending Story"

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AnswerID: 263595

Follow Up By: Rock Ape - Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 15:33

Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 15:33

You nailed it

FollowupID: 525209

Reply By: Member - Lionel A (WA) - Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 15:18

Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 15:18

THE POLLIES FIDDLE WHILE AUSTRALIA BURNS.

AnswerID: 263607

Reply By: Member - John P (NT) - Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 22:59

Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 at 22:59

Steve
' I often read your jottings in the forum and they are normally quite sensible .However todays entry on the new Aboriginal laws is quite silly and often inaccurate.
e.g."And if I go to Darwin and buy more bulk beer and wine I fill out another form -- and I now could be considered a Grog runner." This Rule will hopefully allow police to identify people who are grog runners,and you know that this is long overdue.You are not being accused of being a a grog runner by this measure anymore than everyone pulled up for a breath test is accused of being drunk.
It is very easy to be a knocker in this world but it is a very complex problem and to see someone finally trying to do something about it should be applauded not criticised. Sure they will make mistakes and come under a lot of pressure from groups with vested interests (you know that the confusing rules about tour groups being able to drink on aboriginal land was due to pressure from tour operators- does that ring a bell) .
It is very easy to find faults in such a large and complex undertaking but you know that no N.T. government of either side has made any serious attempt to remedy the problem-no votes in it as Hairy will tell you.
To all the critics of our pollies remember the old addage "countrys usually get the politicians they deserve "-and as some of you could obviously do so much better I hope you will have your names in to stand for the upcoming election.
All the best John.

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AnswerID: 263666

Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Monday, Sep 24, 2007 at 06:20

Monday, Sep 24, 2007 at 06:20

Agree. Can't believe how fixated on booze some forumites are.

FollowupID: 525280

Follow Up By: Member - Lionel A (WA) - Monday, Sep 24, 2007 at 07:37

Monday, Sep 24, 2007 at 07:37

Hi Al,
I think that its not so much the fixation on booze thats the main issue, rather the limiting of the majority of the populations freedoms.
If for example milk, bread, tea or coffee were subject to the same bans I think the posts would be identical, if not, more critical.

The principle is more of an issue than the booze itself.

I think they call it DEMOCRACY.........LOL.

Cheers mate..Lionel.

FollowupID: 525287

Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Monday, Sep 24, 2007 at 08:04

Monday, Sep 24, 2007 at 08:04

Lionel.

Understand the principle but believe something had to be done as nothing else seems to have worked. Civil libertarians and other vested interests will always play the freedom and racist cards. Booze is a luxury and hardly essential to anyone.

Neither Federal nor State governments of ANY political persuasion have been able to resolve these LONG outstanding issues. We've heard all the do gooders on this Forum spout on about how this intervention is doomed to failure but I've yet to read anything from the know it alls regarding a realistic alternative.

Sorry mate, but I believe most of the objectors do worry more about booze than the principle.

FollowupID: 525288

Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Monday, Sep 24, 2007 at 09:55

Monday, Sep 24, 2007 at 09:55

Well said John P

FollowupID: 525305

Follow Up By: Steve from Top End Explorer Tours - Monday, Sep 24, 2007 at 12:02

Monday, Sep 24, 2007 at 12:02

John.

Not one word of my post's above are inaccurate, I challenge you to prove other wise.

Look at the map I provided the link to, you will see that Melville Island and all of Arnhemland are restricted area's, yet you can get a permit to drink alcohol on Melville it cost $55, some friends of mine returned today after 3 days of fishing and they obtained their permit on Thursday, Oenpelli sports and social club serve alcohol from 12pm to 1.30pm and 6pm to 9pm daily.and Maningrida has a permit system that allows it's residents to obtain alcohol, these permits and licences can't be removed under the new laws.

Find a map of Kakadu and you will see that you can have a beer at Cooinda but not 1 km away at Yellow Water car park, yet you can sit in your boat at Yellow Water and have a beer, you can't drink a beer at Gunlom water fall yet 15 km back down the road you can drink what you like at Kamboldgie Creek camp ground, mind you Gunlom is a managed camp ground, Kamboldgie Creek cg is 1 km from and out stations, you can't drink at JIm Jim billabong camp ground yet 6km away you can buy alcohol and drive 30 km to another out station in Kakadu and drink there.

Mal Brough, NT fed MP David Tollner and NT senator Nigel Scullion have admitted to not reading the 500 page legislation that produced these laws that don't affect the affected area's but now affect you and me.

This is what bleep es me off and you call me silly, Prove me wrong or apologize.

Gramps it's not about the alcohol it's about the laws that they passed without looking at them that won't and are not working.

Mike once again you jump on someone else's band wagon without an intelligent response.

Cheers Steve

FollowupID: 525325

Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Monday, Sep 24, 2007 at 13:03

Monday, Sep 24, 2007 at 13:03

>Mike once again you jump on someone else's band wagon without
>an intelligent response.

So I can't express agreement and support of someone's opinions now without being criticised.

Looks like you're the one with the problem Steve.

Mike Harding

FollowupID: 525328

Follow Up By: Steve from Top End Explorer Tours - Monday, Sep 24, 2007 at 14:10

Monday, Sep 24, 2007 at 14:10

So what are you agreeing with and supporting?

If I buy bulk alcohol once, twice,or three times a month for argument sake in Darwin and bring it to Jabiru through a restricted area, but to a non restricted area, every time I spend more than $100 dollars I have to give my name address and place of consumption, I could be considered a grog runner and that is a fact.

John also stated that no NT Gov did anything about the problem, That in itself is crap because Claire Martin started this and asked for Fed help and was then run over by Mal Brough's out of control road train.

I have stated more than once in this thread, how the laws were passed and how they aren't working.

So give me an intelligent response and I will respond accordingly.

FollowupID: 525332

Follow Up By: Steve from Top End Explorer Tours - Monday, Sep 24, 2007 at 14:20

Monday, Sep 24, 2007 at 14:20

Just to clarify I only go to Darwin once or twice over a three month period, my statement above was for argument sake.

There is no take away alcohol in Kakadu except Jabiru Golf club, you have to be a member, more justification of any one buying bulk alcohol in Darwin and bringing it back to Jabiru of being accused of grog running.

Steve.

FollowupID: 525333

Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Monday, Sep 24, 2007 at 14:37

Monday, Sep 24, 2007 at 14:37

Steve: as you frequently do you're simply trying to stir up some trouble and are looking for an argument but you're out of luck today mate because I don't want to play.

If you really believe there is a problem with the current intervention into the NT then do something about it rather than just bitch to a few people on a 4WD forum.

Mike Harding

FollowupID: 525336

Follow Up By: Steve from Top End Explorer Tours - Monday, Sep 24, 2007 at 15:45

Monday, Sep 24, 2007 at 15:45

Hey Mike

Would you like a glass with that whine ?

Steve.

FollowupID: 525341

Reply By: Member - Willie , Epping .Syd. - Monday, Sep 24, 2007 at 09:29

Monday, Sep 24, 2007 at 09:29

Are you the same Steve that is at Top End Fishing ?
Willie .

AnswerID: 263702

Follow Up By: Steve from Top End Explorer Tours - Monday, Sep 24, 2007 at 11:06

Monday, Sep 24, 2007 at 11:06

FollowupID: 525315

Reply By: Member - Barnesy (SA) - Tuesday, Sep 25, 2007 at 09:35

Tuesday, Sep 25, 2007 at 09:35

These sort of happenings occur when two things happen. 1) governments try to do a rushed job when it comes to Aboriginal affairs (at least ten years to enact federal legislation like this and only action after pressure in polls). 2) Trying to centralise laws.

It's always more complex when it comes to Aboriginal affairs than politicians like to tell the general voters. The details never emerge until well after the fact, after the hoo ha has died down and it's no longer an election issue.

Lets hope these laws do have a positive impact on Aboriginal communities in trouble, what else can help?

Barnesy

AnswerID: 263834

Reply By: Gone Bush (WA) - Tuesday, Sep 25, 2007 at 11:13

Tuesday, Sep 25, 2007 at 11:13

It's all too complex.

At Fitzroy Crossing the two pubs that sell huge quantities of beer and are currently fighting attempts by the WA Govt to ban take away sales are actually owned by Aborigines.

I can't help looking at things in a simplistic way:

Isolation has not helped the Aborigines at all.

I was born in this country, why do I need a permit to travel through it and why should a minority tell me I can't have a stubbie around a camp fire?