Bio Diesel _ B100 from South Australia Farmers Fuel (SAFF)

Submitted: Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 15:01
ThreadID: 50123 Views:4874 Replies:10 FollowUps:17
This Thread has been Archived
Approx 5,000kms ago I posted a thread that in essence said That I swapped to SAFF B100 Bio Diesel ,and that I would give a feedback report re same after using it for service period, which in my case is 5,000kms.

(1) Cost – Usually 3-4 cents cheaper than petro diesel

(2) Availability – only 4 stations in Victoria with one in Melbourne (Boronia) close to my daughters residence, so no problem attending, accessing same.

(3) Type of Bio Diesel used – B100 where available an B20 elsewhere. (B100 close to 100% Bio – B20 80% diesel/20% bio)

(4) Bio Diesel Source – Canola oil (aust) however Aust Govt has quota on how much Canola may be diverted to fuel production. In absence of Canola , Palm oil is imported from Indonesia . (yes! there are all sorts of moralistic issues with this, however, until the govt allows more canola for fuel production, that’s the next source of suitable vegetable oil in large quantities).

(5) First fuel load produced a noticeable quieting and smoothing out of the engine at idle. Power was unaffected. Black smoke under load disappeared and smell was like fish and chips (canola) I don’t think there was any increase in power, only a quicker response to the pedal which gave one the allusion of possibly a bit more power.

(6) Downside – used noticeably more fuel to produce the same outputs of diesel. ie fuel consumption up and less kms in range.
Now having said that, my test run went from Melbourne to Warraweena, to Port Lincoln, to Fowlers Bay, to Ceduna, up Googs Track to Woomera, to Kadina, to Melbourne, in the filthiest wet gale force wind 3 weeks of this year, whilst towing a CT with a GCM of 5 tonnes.

I didn’t bother looking at the fuel to cost ratio as if I had I would have turned around and come home. (LOL) Funnily enough a heap of caravaners I spoke to on the trip were having the exact same problems and had also resorted to ignoring all things fuel consumption/cost related.

(7) Fuel filters – I use the CAV system and only change the fuel filter every 20,000 – 40,000kms after inspecting the two fuel bowls of the unit for any chit, water etc etc.

Regular inspections of the aforementioned fuel fowls revealed nothing, however an in line filter I have on the reserve tank showed a fair bit of rubbish, water etc so I changed that only.

(8) On the Trip to SA and Back I was on B100 approx 60% and B20 for 40%. This was due to availability as not all SAFF servos have the B100, due to insufficient bowsers/outlets in some of the country towns. Note: the whole trip was on either B100 or B20

(9) I have gone back to BP Petro Diesel to see how the fuel consumption goes and for another reason which I will Post on later.

Summary

Would I use Bio Diesel again, yes I would and will. I am currently experimenting with something else and running Petro Diesel re same, however I fully intend going back to the Bio Diesel for more test purposes .

Never experienced any softening of rubber or leaking seals.



Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: madfisher - Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 15:45

Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 15:45
Excellent report Lucy, good to see someone with an open and inquiring mind
Cheers Pete
AnswerID: 264372

Follow Up By: Member - shane (SA) - Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 16:01

Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 16:01
thanks Lucy for report, i noticed you mentioned bp diesel. i have found i seem to get a better run out of the bp diesel than others, have you or anyone else noticed this.
0
FollowupID: 526106

Follow Up By: Member - 'Lucy' - Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 16:44

Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 16:44
BP Diesel - Oh! my wordy Loedy Yes! indeed I dood I day (LOL)

Yes! I do Use it and when available only BP.

My 05 CRD KJ JEEP has had nothing but BP in it and never missed a beat re fuel issues.

Thought once that I had a crook load of ufuel from a BP in Sydney, towards Penrith - rang BP and they went after them like a hound after a fox.

Had to call them off two days later as it wasn't the fuel itself, just the computer management computer for the fuel that was having a 'bad day' because the Transmission computer had a 'headache' due to a slipping torque converter. (what a bitch to diagnose).

Also when I had the after market turbo fitted to the Troopy the Pump Shop that tricked up the pump and injectors (techo) advised me that BP was the cleanest unadulterated diesel on the Aust market so I have used it ever since.

More power/more economy - Yes if you drive sedately (whatever that means LOL)

Got a tank of fuel at Tiborrburra (spelling) in NSW's outer outback once,and everytime I started it and stopped there was a thumping explosion from the engine.

Don't know what was in it, but as soon as I got to Broken Hill and loaded up with BP, all was well again.

BP is dearer, however I put up with that to hopefully get a reasonable product.
0
FollowupID: 526110

Follow Up By: TD100 - Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 18:07

Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 18:07
i also only use BP now after some experimenting with other dino diesels and find it the pick of the bunch.cheers Paul
0
FollowupID: 526117

Reply By: PeterInSA - Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 16:33

Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 16:33
Lucy, thanks for the great report. re your comment

(7) Fuel filters – I use the CAV system and only change the fuel filter every 20,000 – 40,000kms after inspecting the two fuel bowls of the unit for any chit, water etc etc.

I have heard that Bio Diesel cleans out the fuel lines/system and you should rigorously change the fuel filters on a frequent basis otherwise you will have injector/pump problems and once you have gone thru this process eg 5 Fuel Filter changes, you should only run Bio D.

I change the fuel filter every 10,000kms and after a reluctant tankfull of Bio the next tankfull is Petro/Diesel if at all possible.

I wont change for the moment, but your report and future updates will help to dispel some of the myths and legends probably put out by the oil companies.

Peter
AnswerID: 264378

Follow Up By: Member - 'Lucy' - Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 19:49

Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 19:49
The 'filter thing' and Bio fuel. ???????

Ok! this is what I did. I researched the net as far as I could and because its a relatively new technology (Not the diesel technology) where a new fuel product ibecomes commercially available, which hasn't been tested over serious time spans as to compatibility with other materials such as rubber, polymer, urethane etc etc; I found that there had been instances of some rubber based compounds softening in the fuel systems that had been attributed to Bio diesel.

However the main body of opinion was that anything manufactured after 1995-96 shouldn't be a worry. My 1HZ was manufactured in 1997 so at this stage I am not too worried about this side of things.

Next I checked out the filtration side of things. Most crediuble sources all said basically the same thing - Bio fuel is an excellent solvent and will strip all the chit out of your tanks and lines , including varnish and the dreaded black algae slime, which will block filters very quickly.

So with this in mind I kept checking the CAV filter unit which has twin glass bowls - one for the agglomerator and one for the filter,
as well as the in line filter which gets changed every 5,000kms.

The in line one showed a clollection of rubbish, water and had turned brown but was still working ok.

The glass bowls showed absolutely zero - clean as.

So I didn't change them for the 5,000k service interval that I had the Bio Fuel on.

At the aforementioned 5,000k mark I put LPG injection on the Troopy ( No questions please as I will post re same in a day or two) which resulted in cavitation at 3000rpm.

So I changed the CAV filter which fixed it immediately and proves that the CAV filter system does its job. (much smaller micron flow compared to other filters)

I had a look at it afterwards and it was quite brown inside, most probably a tad of varnish from the tanks. Couldn't see any solids.

So I may change the CAV filter at 10,000kms for awhile. At $4.00 a pop they are cheap enough.


Now I only used SAFF bio diesel as it is a commercial product from an original vegetable source. Not a product that has been made from subjecting used cooking oil, mixed with animal fats, cockroach pee, white lightning etc etc to some sort of rejuvenating process to give you and end product of 'bio-diesel'.

The government also monitor it for quota compliance and excise, which means that every now and again they will do an audit to make sure SAFF are complying with content. Because if they don't, it means a loss of revenue.

Hope this answers your queries.


0
FollowupID: 526129

Reply By: Shaker - Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 17:46

Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 17:46
I think it is quite a coincidence that the price is within a few cents of petro diesel.

It would need to be a much bigger difference in price for me to take the risk.

I agree with other posts about BP diesel, I also find Mobil very good, as far as the others like United & Liberty ..... not a chance!
AnswerID: 264382

Follow Up By: Member - 'Lucy' - Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 19:56

Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 19:56
Shaker

For the commercial fuel sellers the Fed Govt has them right under the thumb tax wise.

It wouldn't matter if it reached the pump at 1c a liter, by the time you filled your tank and walked to the cash register it will have increased to what ever the Fed Govt thinks is Politically palatable and will be accepted by the population in general..

Just a sad fact of life in the country.


0
FollowupID: 526131

Follow Up By: Member - Rotord - Sunday, Sep 30, 2007 at 09:45

Sunday, Sep 30, 2007 at 09:45
Not true , or the price of gas would be the same as petrol and diesel .
0
FollowupID: 526180

Follow Up By: Member - 'Lucy' - Sunday, Sep 30, 2007 at 19:38

Sunday, Sep 30, 2007 at 19:38
Is so to true.

The Fed Govt sets excise and taxes on fuel how it sees fit.

Not so long ago, some skirt wearing politician decided it would be nice to add a penalty tax to diesel because it was 'unclean'.

LPG is another example. Cheap now, however over the next few years it will be ratched up tax/excise wise to match petrol.

So, if the Fed Govt was fair dinkum re clean fuel, they would cut the excise by half or remove it all together to give people an inducement to use it.
0
FollowupID: 526237

Reply By: Member - Doug T (Qld) - Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 18:59

Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 18:59
Lucy
I too notice a big improvement when using BP. I usually give the Woolies fuel dockets away or just chuck them , On the way over from the West I filled up all tanks at Southern Cross BP , I bought the next main lot at Pt Augusta , I did add 90 lts at Ceduna just in case but didn't need it , I got 2000 klm from 360lts towing the van pictured below, there was a little left when I got there,
The Transport Co I used to work for in Brisbane has used only BP since 1976 when the business began ,
gift by Daughter

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

AnswerID: 264385

Follow Up By: Member - 'Lucy' - Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 19:22

Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 19:22
Doug

Now that is Déjà-vu if ever there was Déjà-vu.

I was born in Southern Cross and lived there and Marvel Loch for the first sixteen years of my life.

Back to the fuel subject.

That is an extremely good result, especially with towing the Van and all.

Does your troopy have a turbo fitted.

0
FollowupID: 526123

Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (Qld) - Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 19:26

Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 19:26
Lucy
No it has no turbo, Abloke ask me once did it have cruise control. I told him hell yeh....it's attached to my right ankle.

Doug
gift by Daughter

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 526125

Follow Up By: Member - 'Lucy' - Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 19:51

Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 19:51
Ah! thats why you have such good fuel consumption.

The turbo is great, however the fuel gauge goes down as the foot goes down. (Real bugger that is) (LOL)

I like the cruise control story. Must remember that.



0
FollowupID: 526130

Follow Up By: Member - 'Lucy' - Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 23:47

Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 23:47
Eh! Doug.

Just noticed my attempt to spell Deja-vu the French way ended up being reproduced by the forum fairies as Djja-vu. How weird is that.






0
FollowupID: 526168

Reply By: Felix Oflanigan - Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 20:02

Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 20:02
Lucy who told you that SAFF only use bio made from canola?
AnswerID: 264393

Follow Up By: Member - 'Lucy' - Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 23:44

Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 23:44
Felix

Absolutely no one.

They told me that SAFF prefer to use Canola and will do so until they hit the Fed Govt quota on use of food source product.

Saff the allegedly use Palm oil from Indonesia which Indonesia iis going gang busters on to produce enough to service the Indian and Chinese markets.

In so doing they (Indonesia) are demolishing rain forests and anything else available so that they can plant Palms f or palm oil production. This is having a wide and diverse effect on flora and fauna in Indonesia as well as allegedly contributing to the global warming.

Now whilst in Port Lincoln, the SAFF dealer there told me the above and that whoever he talks to to arrange supply, told him to expect Palm oil in the next shipment as the Canola quota had been reached.

When I arrived back in Melbourne and re filled with B100 (SAFF) I had a conversation with the owner of the servo and he confirmed the above and thought his last re supply had been Palm Oil.

If you have any info to the contrary, please elucidate same so we may all benefit further on this subject
0
FollowupID: 526167

Reply By: Member - Kim M (VIC) - Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 20:34

Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 20:34
Saff

Interesting subject. Some time ago we were asked to submit an Investment response for a major Bio Plant down here in the Village. During the research and planning of the submission, two things became evident.

Firstly, almost all of the richest agricultural area in our location (Casey and Cardinia) would have to undergo a significant short term change without any significant Government Infrastructure support or planning.

Secondly, we became aware of huge Government subsidies for investors. From memory this was something like $0.30+ a Litre.

Given that we all pay tax, I have a bit of difficulty in getting too excited about unstainable Bull Tish that has to be supported at this level.

What go's in one pocket, comes out of the other!

Regards

Kim McFarland
Phone/fax (03) 97821702
Mobile 0409213403
e-mail kimmc@satlink.com.au
Bus Phone 97055467
Bus e-mail kmcfarland@casey.vic.gov.au
AnswerID: 264401

Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 21:23

Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 21:23
that's the second time you're done that.. ;-)
0
FollowupID: 526143

Follow Up By: Member - 'Lucy' - Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 23:56

Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 23:56
Kimmy, Kimmy - look at moi!

Second time you have done what old son. C'mon, don't be bashful let me in on whatever it is. (LOL)

Also what were you planning to do with Cardinia and Casey areas:

Demolish all the native vegetation ????

Remove all the fauna - native plus exotic ??????

Grow Palms or canola etc ??????

Or was all that space require to build the Bio refinery plant. ????




0
FollowupID: 526170

Reply By: Member - Kim M (VIC) - Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 22:00

Saturday, Sep 29, 2007 at 22:00
Richard

Your dead right. Probably need a another Missus to keep me under the thumb!

LOL

Regards

Kim
AnswerID: 264419

Reply By: Nick R (VIC) - Sunday, Sep 30, 2007 at 09:44

Sunday, Sep 30, 2007 at 09:44
Lucy,
I found fuel economy was shocking on the way to warraweena also, was much better on the way home.....
Nick
Carpe Cerevisi

Lifetime Member
My Profile  Send Message

AnswerID: 264443

Follow Up By: Willem - Sunday, Sep 30, 2007 at 09:53

Sunday, Sep 30, 2007 at 09:53
Yeah........ the way home was down hill.....lol
0
FollowupID: 526182

Follow Up By: Nick R (VIC) - Sunday, Sep 30, 2007 at 22:52

Sunday, Sep 30, 2007 at 22:52
yeah true, warraweena to timboon west is a decline of nearly 300 metres.....
haha
Carpe Cerevisi

Lifetime Member
My Profile  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 526293

Reply By: Member - joc45 (WA) - Sunday, Sep 30, 2007 at 11:07

Sunday, Sep 30, 2007 at 11:07
Hi Lucy,
Interesting reading. Re (6) I've used the SAFF B20 last year on my travels thru SA, and didn't really notice any difference, but in NSW, I filled with B50 and noticed quite an increase in consumption over 2 tankfulls (should that be "tanksfull"?). The reduced cost of the bio was cancelled out by the increased consumption.
There is one supplier of bio (B20) here in the West, but I haven't seen the cost benefit in changing to bio at this stage coz of the above.
cheers,
Gerry
AnswerID: 264451

Reply By: Gone Bush (WA) - Sunday, Sep 30, 2007 at 23:11

Sunday, Sep 30, 2007 at 23:11
On the assumption that my new TDV8 is a much more complex engine with finer tolerances than my 80 series 1HZ, I shuffled into the Service Dept of a Toyota dealer on the south coast of NSW (during a trip over there) and asked them for their thoughts on BioDiesel.

They had just come back from some industry conference on the subject with statements from a whole range of interested parties from manufacturers (like Toyota), to bowser manufacturers, to injection manufacturers (Denso, I think) and they ALL recommended NOT to use biodiesel.

The conversation was fairly brief but they were convinced, and so was I.

BioDiesel will not knowingly go into my vehicle.
I'm glad I ain't too scared to be lazy
- Augustus McCrae (Lonesome Dove)

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

AnswerID: 264527

Follow Up By: Member - 'Lucy' - Monday, Oct 01, 2007 at 00:15

Monday, Oct 01, 2007 at 00:15
Dear Mr Gone Bush.

If you have a look at the responses to the first reply to my originating post above (tricky I know) you will see that I mentioned that I have an 05 CRD KJ JEEP.

Because it is a much more complex and sophisticated piece of technology than your run of the mill TDV8, it has never been on bio diesel - only ever had BP diesel in it, other than the four drops of yank whatever for delivery purposes.

However, the Troopy is your basic non electronic, fail safe piece of go anywhere, anytime technology ,that you aren't chitting your pants waiting for for an engine management light to come on and spoil your day.

I had my share of that with the JEEP when it was new and just today was talking to a gentleman with a year old 4.2 Nissan that is playing up something chronic with an intermittent engine check light and dropping into limp mode when not expected.

From his description of same and what has been bandied around this forum I would guess that it maybe the MAF sensor. However all the experts apparently have had different ideas, and the 'mother' comes and goes or doesn't appear at all when being tested.

I digress, appologies, back to the fuel thing. Chrysler dealerships have told me point blank never to accidentally put petrol in the JEEP and run it, as it will literally 'kill' the electronic pump which then has to be removed , replaced, and sent back to the manufacturer for a rebuild.

The ones I have spoken to re bio in the JEEP, all have said they don't know, however wouldn't want to be the one to be the first to try it.

Sooooo! I play around with the Troopy and the 1HZ and toe the 'party line' with the JEEP, until further information comes to hand that suggests otherwise.

0
FollowupID: 526303

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (9)