OT Refrigerated or Evaporative Air Con for your house

Submitted: Friday, Nov 16, 2007 at 20:56
ThreadID: 51684 Views:6793 Replies:12 FollowUps:15
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After seven years of living in a house with Evap, we now have refrigerated in the place we have just built.

As far as I am concerned you can shove evaporative cooling up your pudenda.

Even in Melbourne with a fairly dry heat, the refrig leaves the evap for dead.

I know, I know, the evap is cheap to run, but it needs regular maintenance to clean the pads, has water flow issues etc. I reckon we spent more on maintenance of the last evap unit than the power to run refrig.

And on the odd humid day we get in Melbourne the evap doesn't cool the place and just makes the place wet.
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Reply By: porl - Friday, Nov 16, 2007 at 21:19

Friday, Nov 16, 2007 at 21:19
They don't even market them in Queensland. I went to my bro's house in canberra last month and they were everywhere but I had never heard of them ...

Love my mitsubishi electric air cons. THe bedroom one is 2.5kw and is rated at 6 out of 6 energy stars, I didn't even know they made things capable of 6 stars.
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Follow Up By: Member - Effie C (ACT) - Friday, Nov 16, 2007 at 21:52

Friday, Nov 16, 2007 at 21:52
Not true they are used in Qld but in specific places like laundries (Royal Brisbane Hospital had hundreds of them) as refrigerated units can not handle the latent heatload caused by the huge amounts of water vapour in a laundry area.
I too have refrigerated A/C and I can not see why anyone who lives in an even mildly humid area would want to have a swamp box to cool their house, also there is the water usage problem as they are heavy users of water and I feel they should be banned from use with water restrictions that are in place in most of our city's.
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Follow Up By: Member - Gaz@Gove (NT) - Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 01:45

Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 01:45
Manufactured and Sold in Mt.Isa.
Mmmmmmmm, now where do we go next?

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Reply By: Member - 'Lucy' - Friday, Nov 16, 2007 at 21:43

Friday, Nov 16, 2007 at 21:43
You been on the red wine again, haven't you.

Thats the only reason I can think of as to why you are denigrating pudenda's.




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Follow Up By: Jimbo from Best Off Road - Friday, Nov 16, 2007 at 21:50

Friday, Nov 16, 2007 at 21:50
Ken,

You are life's living, breathing (only just), waliking, talking, pontificating, version of life's pudenda LOL.

Next time you pop into the factory, give me a little notice so that I can set the appropriate time aside to chat with you.

Kind Regards,

Jim

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Reply By: Willem - Friday, Nov 16, 2007 at 21:49

Friday, Nov 16, 2007 at 21:49
Hmmm.... Evaporative aircon only functions well in areas of very low humidity. Melbourne may be dry but I doubt if the humidity is low.

Australia has gone the American way building poorly insulated houses of wood and tin and some silver foil with no large verandas or high roofs to keep the heat or cold at bay and so refrigerant airconditioning is applied to make living conditions bearable. This in turn ads to the the whole global warming saga and is in my view pretty unhealthy living if not comfortable for a short period of time.

The outer walls of my stone cottage are 1 metre thick. After a week of 38 degrees or more the walls will heat up. In summer temps inside the couse are 8-10 degrees cooler. We have overhead fans for the hot days and set on a slow pace just turn enough air inside the rooms to keep life liveable. The studio outside is built of woodframe and plasterboard and has a refrigerant airconditioner. Really hot days see us disappearing into that space until the sun drops below the horizon.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 14:08

Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 14:08
Well said Willem.

What's air conditioning? Especially at home? This is Australia - it's hot - we need to learn to live with it.

Mike Harding
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Reply By: Brew69(SA) - Friday, Nov 16, 2007 at 22:05

Friday, Nov 16, 2007 at 22:05
I love my evap. Cheap as chips to run. Self cleaning pads. 4 yo now and has not missed a beat. And the overflow goes onto the garden.
AnswerID: 272101

Follow Up By: Member No 1- Sunday, Nov 18, 2007 at 16:56

Sunday, Nov 18, 2007 at 16:56
err Brew....no such thing as a self cleaning evap...the dump valve only reduces sediemnt build up. which may reduce cleaning time...one should always clean their evap evry three months during the operating season...thats 3 time per year minimum
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Follow Up By: Brew69(SA) - Sunday, Nov 18, 2007 at 18:46

Sunday, Nov 18, 2007 at 18:46
well i must owe mine 12
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Monday, Nov 19, 2007 at 07:52

Monday, Nov 19, 2007 at 07:52
well get up there and do it before the hot weather hits...belt probably needs tightening or even replacing anyway..if it has one
check all water sprays to make sure they aint blocked and pump filter...listen for undue noise suggesting bearings may be crook and on their way out
as you havent done any servicing for 4 years get new filters why you at it...even celdeck should be replaced every 3-4 yrs at least...spend some of those $$$ you keep hoarding
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Reply By: Member - joc45 (WA) - Friday, Nov 16, 2007 at 22:55

Friday, Nov 16, 2007 at 22:55
Been running an evap in Perth for the last 15 years. I reckon it's great in Perth's summer heat. Even on the odd humid days, the movement of air makes it pleasant, and the brick house never heats up.
Sure, not a nice as a refrig, but whenever I receive the power bill, I always smile.
Gerry
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Reply By: mfewster - Friday, Nov 16, 2007 at 23:01

Friday, Nov 16, 2007 at 23:01
I think Willem has it about right. If the house is well designed, AC shouldn't be necessary. Our house has a wall of glass facing west. Luverly ocean views but very inefficient until I can afford double glazing. We have a swampy. Works well in Adelaide.The water goes into a header tank which in turn flushes the loo as required. Rumour has it the the water usage in electricity generation is very high, but because it is used in the cooling of the generators, we aren't aware of the real water cost.
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Follow Up By: Sand Man (SA) - Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 09:08

Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 09:08
Hmmm,

Can't agree with you there.

I was brought up in a solid brick home with a high roof and no air conditioning, back in the 50's & 60's.

I distinctly recall summer nights when it was so hot, we slept out on the front lawn on a blanket. Course, back in those days there was virtually no risk of some spaced out peckerhead looking to bash & rob someone of enough cash or goods for their daily fix, or jollies.

The advantage of reverse cycle airconditioning is that the process is even more efficient and effective at pumping heat into a home, as it is in cooling it. It is in fact, one of the cheapest forms of heating when compared to other forms of heat sources for homes. Coupled with ducted air flow throughout a house there is very little else that can compete with it's efficiency and economy.

And on evaporative cooling technology, there is no cheaper and more efficient, more effective form of cooling for a house in those parts of Australia where high humidity is not a constant problem. The principal of evaporative cooling is to encourage large volumes of cool air flowing through a house, thus expelling hot, stale air.
This is common in places such as large shopping centres where external doors are being constantly opened. Some domestic evaporative air conditioners such as the Brivis Contour, use very little water to provide this cooling process and evaporative air conditioners can be used at night with a very low fan speed, with or without the evaporation process, to provide gentle air flow when sleeping.

So, there are pros and cons in both forms of Air Conditioners and it's purely up to homeowners to determine their own individual needs.


Bill


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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Sunday, Nov 18, 2007 at 17:02

Sunday, Nov 18, 2007 at 17:02
filter for filter and for the same amount of cooling capacity they all use the same amount of water....celdeck pads v aspen wood does make a tad difference to efficiency based on surface area etc etc of filter..

"This is common in places such as large shopping centres where external doors are being constantly opened"...not in adelaide it aint...its all refigerated air the large shopping centres

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Reply By: Hairy (NT) - Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 01:35

Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 01:35
Gday,
I cant believe you would have air conditioners in Melbourne!!!
Isn't it raining one day and miserable the next!

LOL

Cheers
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Reply By: Member - Davoe (Yalgoo) - Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 09:45

Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 09:45
theres no question refridge works better than evap.
But for maintance costs - Buy a ladder, these things aint rocket science. i recently cleaned out my air con and hosed out those honeycombe pads (just dont get water in your ceiling as i always seem to).
The costs of running refridgerated are massive so there are big savings to be made.
Contrary to what you say Melbourne is very humid which is why your common bobtail lizard doesnt live there and will die (as a freind found out) if you take them there.
this could be part of your issue - they may not be suitable for your environment.
Same as Solar Hart as i found out, works great in kalgoorlie but not so well in cloudy rainy Perth
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Follow Up By: Jimbo from Best Off Road - Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 11:03

Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 11:03
Davoe,

I can tell you from experience, Melbourne is not very humid. I lived in Townsville for 8 years, that is humid.

Melbourne's hotter days are usually driven by a hot, dry northerly wind. Rarely do we get a stinker combined with humidity.

Hence evap cooling is effective in Melbourne by bringing the temp down by 8 to 10 degrees. Thus on a day of 42, you can expect a best of 32 in the house. Now 32 is better than 42, but not what I call comfortable.

ATB,

Jim.
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Yalgoo) - Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 11:30

Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 11:30
Montly humiidy stats for melbourne
9am 3pm
Nov 61 % 51%
dec 60% 48%
jan 60% 48%
Feb 64% 49%

Thats probably where the problem lays
But yea evaporative does loose effectiveness over 35 deg
I find it best if its going to be hot turning it on from the morning and leaving it on. Even if you go out for a bit still leave it on.
Still I prefer that to the alternative. My parents replace dudted evap with ducted refridge and started getting bills of $700
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Follow Up By: Jimbo from Best Off Road - Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 12:04

Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 12:04
From the Breezair website


What is the maximum recommended humidity?
For best results, a maximum relative humidity at the hottest part of the day of about 70% is best. This will provide a minimum temperature reduction of between 8 and 10°F. In areas where humid days happen from time to time, great relief is often achieved by turning off the water pump (a standard feature of all Breezair coolers) and simply blowing fresh air - moving air always feels cooler than still air.

Back to top

How much will it reduce the temperature?
That depends on the temperature and humidity of the outside air. The chart towards the bottom of our Scientific Facts page shows how much the temperature can drop given a large range of conditions. For example, at a temperature of 90°F and a humidity of 40%, the air supply will be a very comfortable 73°F - a drop in temperature of 17 degrees.


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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Sunday, Nov 18, 2007 at 17:05

Sunday, Nov 18, 2007 at 17:05
17 degrees...is that F or C...just checking in before i may dispute
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Follow Up By: Jimbo from Best Off Road - Sunday, Nov 18, 2007 at 19:03

Sunday, Nov 18, 2007 at 19:03
Nudie,

The thing didn't copy well, it says a drop from 90F to 73F, a decrease of 17F. Don't know here the 901 and 731 came from, it's a computer thing.
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Monday, Nov 19, 2007 at 07:45

Monday, Nov 19, 2007 at 07:45
okay so its breezair talk for the yanks...we are now C not F...which is why I was questioning....cos i always thought (from trade school pschyometric chart plotting days) not to expect better than 10td (it was 18 in F talk back then too...)
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Reply By: mfewster - Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 11:34

Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 11:34
Hi Sandman
Agree with you generally on evap Units, but reckon house design has moved a long way since the 50s and 60s As a kid I also lived in a solid brick house with high ceilings in Perth and remember unbearably hot nights. There was no consideration however in the design to insulation under the roof; orientation/shading of windows/ double glazing, airlock design entry to houses; air movement around appliances that create heat.like fridges. or design of house to control air movement by convection. All of which make a very big difference to how much electrical or evap cooling you need, or whether you need them at all. I would still maintain that in a well designed modern home, aircon should not be necessary. There is a place in Brunswick, Melbourne called Ceres that have a display house showing how even a traditional inner urban weatherboard can be modified to dramatically recuce the energy consumption, including cooling, costs. In Alice Springs there used to be a standard government home that was open for inspection about once a month that had bee renovated for a similar outcome.
I've never understood why we haven't picked up a thing or two on housing construction from the area around Santa Fe in USA. Lots of houses there constructed by bulldozing down into the ground. . Relatively cheap, very energy efficient, saves a lot of expensive cartage costs of materials to remote areas.
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Reply By: marcus - Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 11:49

Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 11:49
I will put my hand up for evaporative cooling in Melbourne.The humid days are not that common and the units will do whole of house including bedrooms at around 5cents per hour as against $3.50per hour to run a refrigerated unitfor basically one room.On those nights where it stays about 30c all night the evap stays on providing a good nights sleep.The air entering the home is filtered by the pads removing all the pollens and pollutions providing a heatlhier environment to live.They are such a simple system there really is little to go wrong.
Cheers Mark
AnswerID: 272168

Reply By: Member - andrew B (Kununurra) - Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 15:23

Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 15:23
Its hot, we currently have 2 of the 6 air cons in the house running, where its cold people run heaters. Although I spend most of my time outside, the bills add up, $7 or $8 dollars a day on the aircons, which is nothing compared to the beer bill, which would surely escalate if the aircons weren't running (I come in ocasionally to cool off.) (note the wife spends most of the day inside, and the kids are in and out all day.)
Cheers Andrew
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Reply By: Member No 1- Sunday, Nov 18, 2007 at 17:15

Sunday, Nov 18, 2007 at 17:15
spare a thought for the man who gets on or in the roof on a stinking hot day (45) to fix your rudy poorly maintained mongrel aircons ...evap or refigerated

your all a bloomin bunch of woooses :))))

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