caravaning accidents

Submitted: Sunday, Jul 20, 2008 at 18:39
ThreadID: 59950 Views:3539 Replies:9 FollowUps:6
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hi all just wondering if this is a common occurence at all.
i have a friend who was in kakadu on the road between jabiru and pine creek, just come over a bit of a hill where the road had recently been surfaced. the van got a sway up that bad it spun the car around the van ended up sliding of the road down the verge and hitting a tree stump , it then just folded. he said no warning just started a big sway , he was doing 85klm the van was a 18 foot pop top. any one had any experiences?
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Reply By: Member - Axle - Sunday, Jul 20, 2008 at 18:47

Sunday, Jul 20, 2008 at 18:47
Hi Zacc

IMHO, Either something broke on the rear suspension of the towing vehicle, or the caravan supension failed somewhere. Other wise something would have been noticed beforehand.

Cheers Axle.
AnswerID: 316197

Reply By: Notso - Sunday, Jul 20, 2008 at 19:00

Sunday, Jul 20, 2008 at 19:00
It happens occasionally. A lot of problems with sway are caused by either loading the van too heavy at the rear or too heavy in front. Or as said above some sort of failure in the system.

There are techniques to stop the sway once it starts but the worst thing you can do is hit the brakes on the tow vehicle.

AnswerID: 316199

Reply By: zacc - Sunday, Jul 20, 2008 at 19:05

Sunday, Jul 20, 2008 at 19:05
yeh he tried to accelerate out of it but no good.
AnswerID: 316200

Reply By: donks1 - Sunday, Jul 20, 2008 at 19:16

Sunday, Jul 20, 2008 at 19:16
Hi Zacc

It doesn't seem to be so in this case but when i was in FNQ, I worked at the RACQ depot. Every year at about the same time we would start to get the callouts for van accidents and rollovers. Generally the cause was trying to dodge a Roo, giveing simmilar results as you mentioned above, but often much worse.
Most of the time the owners were new the Vaning experience. You are generally better off hitting the roo than trying to avoid it.
I hit three in the 3 years i lived there, but i wasn't amout to swerve at 100kph plus.

Donks
AnswerID: 316202

Reply By: Kim and Damn Dog - Sunday, Jul 20, 2008 at 21:00

Sunday, Jul 20, 2008 at 21:00
Zacc

It's more common than most people think, including camper trailers. Worst one I ever came was just before Curdimurka on the Oodnadatta road.

It was immediately after a dip. I reckon the fella got airborn and the whole rig got pear shaped after that.

Both the car and caravan were a complete write off.

Regards

Kim
AnswerID: 316231

Reply By: Nomadic Navara - Monday, Jul 21, 2008 at 02:02

Monday, Jul 21, 2008 at 02:02
There are a lot of things that could have done this. Loading is critical. You see too many vans with tool boxes, fuel , water and other things hanging off the bumper bar. Things appear to be stable until an odd unevenness in the road or a gust of wind produces an oscillation. If the tug or the van is badly loaded or the WDH is incorrectly adjusted (or absent) then a little oscillation can quickly develop into a large one.

Just remember when loading heavy items in your tug or van - the effect of their weight increases with the square of the change of distance from the centre of gravity. A lot of people (including a lot of mechanics) only think of it as being a linear relationship. It is not it is a square law relationship.

There was a case where a van flipped on the Western Ring Road in Melbourne. The van was normally very stable. That day he had removed all of the usual gear from the van but left a generator and a couple of heavy items under the bed at the back. That was all that it too to destabilise the van.

From a quick look you would not be able to tell how well someone had loaded the van. That is a good reason to weigh your van before a trip - to make sure the ball weight is within limits - its too hard to estimate it. You should do this a few times to check it and then make sure you do not reconfigure your loading on subsequent trips. If you do add or subtract significant loading or shift it around then reweigh.

PeterD
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AnswerID: 316263

Follow Up By: Member - Don M (NSW) - Monday, Jul 21, 2008 at 07:41

Monday, Jul 21, 2008 at 07:41
Peter,

All good advice which I am taking note of but how do you weigh your van...then re-weigh it...do you have access to a weighbridge...??? I certainly don't and am interested to know how one goes about weighing something that big...as well as tow ball weight..?? I have been reading all about this in my "tow-ed" manual as I am about tho do the course. Common sense is no doubt the best way forward but it would be nice to be able to weigh the van.
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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Monday, Jul 21, 2008 at 22:25

Monday, Jul 21, 2008 at 22:25
Look in the yellow pages under public weigh bridges (or similar) to locate some and give them a bell. The prices should be in the $15 - $25 range.

When you take your van to the bridge, remove any WDH you have on it. Drive over the bridge to a point where only the van wheels are on the bridge but you can uncouple the van with the jockey wheel on the bridge.

Weigh the van with only the wheels on the bridge. Then uncouple the van (there is no need to remove the chains if there is no tension on them) and weigh again with both the main and jockey wheels on the van. The first weight is the axle group weight. The last weight is the total weight of the van. If you subtract the first weight from the second you have the ball weight - which should be around 10% of the total weight (on a loaded van.)

If you are weighing your van loaded, the first weight should not exceed the GTM figure on the compliance plate. The second weight should not exceed the ATM figure on the compliance plate. If either of the two weights from the bridge exceed their respective ATM or GTM figures then the van is overloaded. You have two options, remove some loading so when you reweigh the van it will comply or have the van upgraded.

I use the local concrete recycling establishment. They do not charge me for the service if they are not busy, unless I require a certificate from them. They just call out the figures and I write them down. There may be someone around that will do the same for you or charge you less if you tell them you do not require a certificate.

PeterD
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Follow Up By: Member - Don M (NSW) - Tuesday, Jul 22, 2008 at 07:06

Tuesday, Jul 22, 2008 at 07:06
Peter,

Thanks for all that, very helpful. I guess the nearest weighbridge for me is Kimbriki tip... I hope they don't charge $50,(as somebody suggested below) but even that is better than taking huge risks.
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Follow Up By: Member - Keith C (NSW) - Tuesday, Jul 22, 2008 at 11:50

Tuesday, Jul 22, 2008 at 11:50
Gday Dom,there is a weigh bridge at the end of Oxford Falls rd.near where it used to join onto W/hurst Parkway,at the sand and gravel place, I did my rig there last year.
Keith C.
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Reply By: Member - Carolyn M (QLD) - Monday, Jul 21, 2008 at 08:06

Monday, Jul 21, 2008 at 08:06
If you take the loaded van to your local dump, they will be able to weigh it for you - the cost is around $50 - that is in Ipswich Qld at least. They do a few weighs but the guys there generally know what they are doing.
cheers
Carolyn
AnswerID: 316283

Reply By: Steve - Monday, Jul 21, 2008 at 09:54

Monday, Jul 21, 2008 at 09:54
Best way to get van weighed is to pull over to a weighbridge...the ones for the truckies, that are on all of the main roads around cities in Aus..
I got my motorhome done there, they can give you amazing info !! (at no cost) Well worth the effort of getting rig out there and getting proper info...hit and miss and you end up just like those comments above !!
Towing a van is not something to be taken lightly, despite all the lovely glossy photos and the spit and polish at the shows !!
AnswerID: 316299

Follow Up By: Member - Don M (NSW) - Tuesday, Jul 22, 2008 at 07:10

Tuesday, Jul 22, 2008 at 07:10
Good to know and I will do that peridiocally when underwarway but need to get things sorted closer to home first and get to know what I can reasonably (and legally ) carry.
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FollowupID: 582731

Reply By: geocacher (djcache) - Tuesday, Jul 22, 2008 at 08:57

Tuesday, Jul 22, 2008 at 08:57
This topic came up a while ago. There are some interesting Coroners Reports on the net pointing to the fact that there are no standards for van design or layout to ensure that even an unladen van will have the correct tow ball down weight.

They also pointed to the fact that bad van design can make it nearly impossible to correctly load some vans.

Van design & loading is crucial to ensure stability.

A van that is not overloaded but is just poorly loaded will look fine over a weigh bridge and will still cause an accident.

Dave
AnswerID: 316499

Follow Up By: geocacher (djcache) - Tuesday, Jul 22, 2008 at 09:03

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