Battery Draining/Memory Followup

Submitted: Tuesday, Jul 29, 2008 at 21:51
ThreadID: 60307 Views:4043 Replies:5 FollowUps:6
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Hi guys, just a followup to my battery problems, thread 59569.
Sorry Phil G it took longer than 2 days to get to it Hahaha.
Have intended to update alternator for a while, but it seemed to be working ok according to voltage. The 2x14 month old sealed lead acid calcium batterys seemed ok.
Have not found positive fault as to something draining batterys, so went ahead and replaced alternator as i was suspicious of it not only draining the battery, but in the end i dont think it was charging amps, but volts were ok, charging up to 14.4 when running. It has done 700,000k anyway.
Still not ok, volts down to 10.5 in the mornings.
So i hauled the 2 new batterys out of the camper that were only 3 months old and are the same as i use in the cruiser, and hardly been used, trickle charged them for a couple of days and replaced the cruiser ones with the new ones.
PROBLEM SOLVED
My diagnosis of this is that the old alt has not been charging enough amps for a long time, probably a diode problem, and as i plug it into charge every night i havent noticed it, remember i have a 110l waeco going 24/7night.
The batterys have set themselves a MEMORY of only a few amps, maybe around 30 - 50 instead of 180, and so the alt regulator and the night charger are shutting down with the batterys only being about a 1/3 full.
So the washup seems all ok now, even the headlights are brighter, LOL.
Next problem, am i able to crack the wrong memory on the sealed lead acid calcium batterys, that arent all that old?
I have put them on trickle charge of around 1-2 amps for a week.
I will then let it rest for a couple of days, then run something like a 1 amp light on each one and measure the time to see how many amps it is storing.
Any other ideas will be appreciated.

Cheers Pesty
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Reply By: Member - Olcoolone (S.A) - Tuesday, Jul 29, 2008 at 22:26

Tuesday, Jul 29, 2008 at 22:26
Pesty you might find you have sulfated batterys due to the low charge state.

If you want to borrow my Ctek you can try to desulfated them with the recon mode.

Or drop them in and I'll do it for you.

Regards Richard
AnswerID: 318018

Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Tuesday, Jul 29, 2008 at 22:26

Tuesday, Jul 29, 2008 at 22:26
G'day there Steve,

Haven't heard of lead acid batteries retaining a memory like NiCad batteries are infamous for.

Have copied an excerpt from the Winsun site which may have relevance for you.

"Gelled batteries, or "Gel Cells" contain acid that has been "gelled" by the addition of Silica Gel, turning the acid into a solid mass that looks like gooey Jell-O. The advantage of these batteries is that it is impossible to spill acid even if they are broken. However, there are several disadvantages. One is that they must be charged at a slower rate (C/20) to prevent excess gas from damaging the cells. They cannot be fast charged on a conventional automotive charger or they may be permanently damaged. This is not usually a problem with solar electric systems, but if an auxiliary generator or inverter bulk charger is used, current must be limited to the manufacturers specifications. Most better inverters commonly used in solar electric systems can be set to limit charging current to the batteries.

Some other disadvantages of gel cells is that they must be charged at a lower voltage (2/10th's less) than flooded or AGM batteries. If overcharged, voids can develop in the gel which will never heal, causing a loss in battery capacity. In hot climates, water loss can be enough over 2-4 years to cause premature battery death. It is for this and other reasons that we no longer sell any of the gelled cells except for replacement use. The newer AGM (absorbed glass mat) batteries have all the advantages (and then some) of gelled, with none of the disadvantages."

On the other hand, if your "dud" alternator was under charging the batteries, they may have become sulfated with the result that they would not obtain or hold a sufficient charge.

Perhaps one way of checking the old "cruiser" batteries is to have them load tested?

Bill.
Bill


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AnswerID: 318019

Follow Up By: Member - Pesty (SA) - Tuesday, Jul 29, 2008 at 22:32

Tuesday, Jul 29, 2008 at 22:32
Thanks Bill, but I have a proper load tester and i tested them when all this started and all came up sweet, maybe if the test could go longer than the instructions say, they may have failed.
I will see what happens, maybe a ctek charge will be better, will look into it with Richard.

Cheers Pesty
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FollowupID: 584418

Follow Up By: Member - Olcoolone (S.A) - Tuesday, Jul 29, 2008 at 22:48

Tuesday, Jul 29, 2008 at 22:48
I'll even let you use our u-bute computerised battery / charging / starting tester thingymajig.

I know who much you love them over to old pile types....LOL
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FollowupID: 584424

Reply By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, Jul 29, 2008 at 22:45

Tuesday, Jul 29, 2008 at 22:45
Quote: "Any other ideas will be appreciated"......

Here's my idea: BUY A NISSAN !!!!!!!
AnswerID: 318024

Follow Up By: Member - Olcoolone (S.A) - Tuesday, Jul 29, 2008 at 22:51

Tuesday, Jul 29, 2008 at 22:51
Yeap I have to agree with that one Roachie.

Pesty is you had a Nissan you would have bigger worries the two dead batterys......supose it would take your mind of the batterys!
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FollowupID: 584425

Follow Up By: Member - Pesty (SA) - Tuesday, Jul 29, 2008 at 22:59

Tuesday, Jul 29, 2008 at 22:59
Hahahahahaha Roachie, At least its an aftermarket part that is playing up on mine, not the backbone of the whole rig!
Ol mate you have a terrible memory, I have told you before what the best thing to do with your nissan is, but you wouldnt listen, now its taken matters into its own hands and is self destructing? Hahaha

Pesty
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FollowupID: 584426

Follow Up By: Member - 'Lucy' - Tuesday, Jul 29, 2008 at 23:36

Tuesday, Jul 29, 2008 at 23:36
Dear Capt'n Dud (Roachie)

Hmmmmmmmmmmm! Nissan eh!

$10,000 to fix chassis
$3,000 for new tray
$6,000 for new 'sky hook' to keep the weight off of what you end up with.
$50,000 to have SWMBO permanently silenced

Why don't you just buy a 200 series like you have been secretly drooling over/about and be done with it.

PS

I'll take the ANZAC Biccy queen off your hand s for free.



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FollowupID: 584432

Reply By: Member - 'Lucy' - Tuesday, Jul 29, 2008 at 23:31

Tuesday, Jul 29, 2008 at 23:31
Come on a trip with Moi' old son and batteries, alternators will be the least of your problems,

AnswerID: 318030

Follow Up By: Member - Pesty (SA) - Wednesday, Jul 30, 2008 at 22:46

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2008 at 22:46
Hahahaha, yes I believe this to be true, I told you hanging with Roachie would be a bad move, think ill go as TEC officer if I travel in one of your convoy's !!!

Cheers Pesty
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FollowupID: 584669

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Tuesday, Jul 29, 2008 at 23:36

Tuesday, Jul 29, 2008 at 23:36
Pesty,
You must have a memory like an elephant :-)

Your problem is the type of battery (sealed lead acid calcium batterys). They are newer technology that get hopelessly undercharged in older vehicles. The only way you'll get them up to charge is with a charger that has a Ca-Ca mode. Redarc make a charger just for this purpose. link
If you're interested, look at the different charging algorithms on this link.

I'd see if a Ctek can bring them back to life, and see how they go in your camper. I personally only ever use conventional wet cell lead acid batteries under the bonnet.

Cheers
Phil
AnswerID: 318032

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