dual batteries

Submitted: Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 16:07
ThreadID: 61133 Views:4772 Replies:13 FollowUps:10
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hi all

i just bought a new engel 40L fridge and just want to know what the average cost is to get the second battery set up is.
can you do it yourself or is it not worth it.

also do i need to upgrade any wiring to the 12volt socket for better power flow or is the standard wiring ok the socket is in the back of the car.

the car is a 100 series cruiser 4.2 TD
would like all your input.thanks guys

regards brentos
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Reply By: Member - lyndon K (SA) - Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 16:21

Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 16:21
cost will vary, who installs it, what battery etc.
Run 6 mm wire from battery, 12 volt sockets are best avoided for this sort of thing.
Cheers Lyndon
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AnswerID: 322480

Follow Up By: brentos - Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 16:57

Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 16:57
hey lyndon

why should you avoid 12v socket,thats what the fridge comes with a cigarette lighter adapter.

if you should avoid them what should i use?
also what is wrong with the standard wiring?

thanks

regards

brentos
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FollowupID: 589528

Follow Up By: Member - Troll 81 (QLD) - Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 19:08

Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 19:08
the 12volt sockets really suck and they can wiggle lose. Get yourself some anderson plugs if you are going to travel allot. The standard wiring is not thick enough and might burn out. It's was never designed to run a fridge they are there to run little lights and things like that
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FollowupID: 589557

Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 21:26

Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 21:26
What year Croozer is it cos all the 1HD- FTE motors have 2 batteries as standard.

They would need to have modified wiring to have only one as the alternator input is on the R/H Side one and all the electrical outputs are on the L/h Side one.

Is easy to split them Just need as said to be able to solder or get some 4 gauge cable from Jaycar or a Battery world shop (who would crimp ends on them for you).

Buy a Redarc off ABR (post below) bolt it in the holes already in the L/H inner guard and away you go. Also need some 8 gauge to extend the alternator input across to the L/H battery.

You can also fit a relay to pull them both in when starting if you want to or put a button on the dash (can get it with the Redarc)
Takes a couple of hours to do a neat job.

Then get some 6mm twin and run it down the back to run the fridge.

I ran mine along the top of the chassis and brought it in via a grommet in the lower rear guard and into the bottom little pocket in the side panel.

As I have a Waeco I bought one of their RAPS 12 uints which will also fit an engel I think, and put that on the front of my set of drawers so I can have fridge behind drivers seat.
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FollowupID: 589598

Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 21:50

Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 21:50
It is not 12 V sockets you should avoid, after all the Anderson plug is a 12 V device. The device you should avoid is the cigarette lighter connector. The Anderson connector is a little bit of overkill in this application, the merit connector is more appropriate - go to Jaycar , and type "merit connector" into the "Search Products" box.

Cigarette lighter connectors differ from the Merit connectors even though they look similar.

1. The positive connector in the cigarette lighter plug relies wholly on the spring loaded centre connector butting up against the socket connector. These connectors get dirty easily and they do not have a very large contact area. They are not much good for sustained use over 1 A, there will always be a significant voltage drop through the connector with high current use after a while.

2. The positive connector in the merit plug slides in beside a leaf connector or two (depending on the current rating) socket in the socket. Each time you insert the plug the connectors slide past each other and are thus self cleaning. The current ratings are from 8 A and greater.

PeterD
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Reply By: Louie the fly (SA) - Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 16:26

Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 16:26
Its not that difficult providing you have some basic skills, patience, and an adequate supply of beer. If you know how to solde, fit a battery tray, understand basic wiring, and so on, you're on your way. You can buy an isolator, such as a Redarc unit for example (not the only one available but many have had excellent results with them), and a power socket from most auto parts suppliesr. Get the correct size cable, which guys on here will inform you of soon, I can't remember the size. Appropriate connectors, etc.
AnswerID: 322481

Reply By: chisel - Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 16:35

Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 16:35
Since your vehicle has 2 batteries already, you could just isolate one from the other with an isolator (maybe $200 including a bit of extra wiring). Some owners have done this (check lcool forums).
The wiring to the rear will be enough to run the engel but it is connected to the ignition (needs key to work) when you really want it connected directly to the second battery. Probably need another cable.
You add a third battery in the engine bay or one in the cargo area. Either way you are looking at somewhere between $500 and $1000 including the battery, I guess.
I haven't mucked with the 2 cranking batteries in mine - I prefer to have a third battery in the cargo area which can also then be removed from the vehicle easily when camping.


AnswerID: 322482

Follow Up By: brentos - Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 17:04

Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 17:04
hey chisel

my car has only one battery,but i want to put a second one in to run the fridge,i think the car has had one some years ago and has been removed some where along the track.

when i bought the car he gave me the battery tray and a couple of other bits and bobs,so i can only assume.
thanks

regards
brentos
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FollowupID: 589530

Reply By: SoloGirl - Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 17:15

Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 17:15
I'm not particularly bright with electrics, but I bought a kit, the battery, battery box, and with the help of some diagrams other than in the kit box, I did everything myself. I installed the second battery in the back of the Mazda, ran the wiring, fixed the solenoid and so far everything looks and runs properly. Took me a bit of time, but I'm glad I did it because if something goes pear-shaped and I'm out bush, at least I will know what was hidden where.
ps change the cigarette socket thing for something more substantial; mine kept blowing. I now have the fridge plug wired to the battery with proper connectors and an in-line fuse.
Good luck.
AnswerID: 322487

Reply By: Member - Bob of KAOS - Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 18:50

Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 18:50
Second battery is essential to avoid being stranded with a cold fridge but a car that won't start. Esp if auto trans. And esp if you are on your own or don't have jumper leads. At least you could console yourself with a cold drink while waiting for help to arrive (although after 3 or 4 days the drinks will have warmed). Good case for a solar panel.

A back up battery (deep cycle) easy to install. It doesn't need to be complicated or expensive. A manual system with a heavy duty switch (from a marine shop) works well provided you remember to isolate when you pull over for a prolonged stop, and reconnect when mobile again.

Use cranking strength cables between the main battery and the secondary unit. Use heavy duty cables to run aft to the fridge - voltage loss is your enemy. Use Engel connectors. Cover cables with that black plastic ribbed protective stuff to avoid chafing and short circuits. I have fuses at each end of the cable run.

I don't know about the TD 100 series but in the V8 (LX470) I had to move the power steering pump away from the front R side of the engine bay where the second battery naturally wanted to be put.

The Optima yellow battery charges quickly and lasts for ages. In addition, because it is sealed it can lie on its side (so will keep working even when you have rolled the vehicle) or be deployed in the cabin (no acid burns on the passengers).
AnswerID: 322501

Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 18:57

Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 18:57
Brentos,

There are several options to choose from.

As you have a cradle for a second battery, this is probably a good option, provided you can find the right place to install it in the engine bay.

Another option is to install a portable battery system in the rear which can be removed if you desire. This battery should be charged by the vehicle alternator.

In either case, an Isolator should be included to keep the primary and secondary batteries separated from each other.

Have a look at Vehicle Electrics topic for in depth information.

Bill.
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AnswerID: 322502

Reply By: Member - Stephen L (SA) - Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 19:18

Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 19:18
Hi Brentos
Do not use the standard power socket in your vehicle to run your fridge, the moment that you turn your vehicle off and take your keys out of the ignition, all power will be lost to your fridge. Do yourself your biggest favour and buy yourself an Engel ASpan fitting and wire it with good quality wire back to you auxiliary battery.

Unscrew the tip from the end of the power lead, then push and screw in the fitting for a 100% fit, that will not let you down on the roughest of tracks. If you do not know how the ASpan works, your Engel supplier will gladly show how.

Cheers

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AnswerID: 322506

Reply By: Affordable Batteries & Radiators - Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 19:48

Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 19:48
Yours is one of the easiest to fit as a DIY kit.

Fridge wiring approx $95 using 6mm2 twin core.

DIY kit approx $295.00 excl. the battery.

Use a MRV70 105 a/h approx $195.00.

The existing plug is too thin and switched via the acc. Best to run a new circuit.



Regards

Derek.
AnswerID: 322513

Follow Up By: Louie the fly (SA) - Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 20:51

Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 20:51
Derek, are they AGM batteries? Is that an additional positive terminal?
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FollowupID: 589586

Follow Up By: Affordable Batteries & Radiators - Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 21:08

Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 21:08
The picture shows a 100 a/h AGM but the MRV70 is a MF battery hybrid.

No there is a Cal fuse fitted to the single terminal but the MRV70 does have dual terminals.

Regards

Derek.

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FollowupID: 589590

Reply By: sdtash - Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 20:57

Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 20:57
Derek,
Interesting fuse system there on your battery photo, low profile would be very useful especially it battery boxes.

Regards
Shane
AnswerID: 322540

Reply By: Mainey (wa) - Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 23:34

Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 23:34
brentos,
Use an AGM Deep Cycle battery.
Anything else is just a cheap compromise if you need optimum battery performance.
Do it yourself with a "battery isolator" between the AGM and the Cranking battery.
Remember to put a fuse (or circuit breaker) at each (+) battery terminal.
I personally would use much thicker cable than that previously mentioned to get zero Voltage drop.

Use a dedicated power circuit for the fridge.

Mainey . . .

AnswerID: 322562

Reply By: brentos - Thursday, Aug 28, 2008 at 08:52

Thursday, Aug 28, 2008 at 08:52
hey guys thanks for your info
its much appreciated ill look into it further

feel free to keep your ideas and feed back coming

regards

brentos
AnswerID: 322591

Follow Up By: brentos - Thursday, Aug 28, 2008 at 08:57

Thursday, Aug 28, 2008 at 08:57
oh..
and the car is a 98 105 series gxl 4.2 D with aftermarket turbo automatic for the guys who want a more specific description of the car

may make things easier to decribe now

regards brentos
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FollowupID: 589639

Follow Up By: Member - 25Left - Thursday, Aug 28, 2008 at 23:00

Thursday, Aug 28, 2008 at 23:00
Oh, 105 series ..... that's a different story.

I understand the cheapest option for the tray is to buy the drivers side genuine tray & clamp for a HDJ100. It should fit straight in.

Isolator, personally I use a redarc with a manual override button. But I used heavier 8B&S (8mm?) cable from the battery to the cargo area to power the fridge, lights, inverter, chargers ......

As part of my wiring install I used the merit sockets, but I also disconnected the original wiring to the rear cig. socket & replaced it with my own constant feed.
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FollowupID: 589800

Reply By: brentos - Thursday, Aug 28, 2008 at 09:34

Thursday, Aug 28, 2008 at 09:34
hey there again

can anyone explain how to wire up for dual batteries
or post a diagram of the wiring set up

thanks guys
regards
brentos
AnswerID: 322597

Follow Up By: Member - Old Girl (QLD) - Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 14:15

Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 14:15
If your asking the question best bet would be to pay an Auto Electrician. You start playing around with wiring you will end up with more than a fridge that wont work.
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FollowupID: 589872

Reply By: motor_head - Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 21:36

Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 21:36
Hi brentos, i didnt read all your reply's (have had enough of reading for one night) but agree with troll, standard wiring and plugs just dont cut it for running fridges, they will over heat and burn out, anderson plugs are very popular these days for good reason.......the cost of dual battery system vary considerably, you could go the cheap option which is a $120 solarnoid from supercheap and add the cost of the battery and wiring which is easy to install yourself or go for a full battery management system which is alot more expensive but this option is automatic so its a case of install and forget, it will manage itself, the previous option you will need to remember to turn it on and off, i went for a thumper pack from arb which is basically a versitile second battery that can also be used to jump start and charge phones,camera's etc and can be removed from the vehicle to run the fridge at camp but is about the same price as a battery mangement system.
AnswerID: 322899

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