Canning Stock water locals ~ a shot in the dark

Greetings to all,
I don't expect any responses on this one, but if I don't put it out there, I'll never know.
Looking for any random GPS coordinates of the following locations. Perhaps someone was bored and logged one of these when tumbling around the wastelands.
Georgia Bore (NNW of well 22); Diebel Spring (W of well 17 & 18); Mujingerra Cave (SE of well 30); Billigilli Well (NE of well 37); Wandurba Rockhole (between well 37 & 38); Nurgurga Soak (between well 30 & 31); Bungabinni Well (W of well 36); Bloodbore Well (SE of Bililuna); & Chungla well (SE of Bililuna) In April I'm heading into the Canning on foot. Yes, yes I know. Regardless, wandering around looking for these locations based on guesses like a halfwit won't help in case I need some extra hydration. It's me carrying the water (weight) shorter possible distances that will help. Won't be putting 100% trust in some being there, but having more dots on my map might make me sleep better.
Cheers
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Reply By: Member - Christopher P (NSW) - Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 at 06:30

Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 at 06:30
Google earth my friend, google earth, revisit the polace and type the co-ordinates in!!!

Plus you can get a rough idea from government survey maps as well!!!!
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Follow Up By: Sandman13 - Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 at 08:37

Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 at 08:37
Thank you Christopher!
Actually most of my progress has been through Google Earth, but several of their coordinates have been off, not by a lot mind you, but some almost a full km. Most just off by .25km. Since I'm on foot, and some of the descriptions have mentioned hard to find, I thought I'd throw a line in the pool to see what came up. But I will definitely check the government survey maps as well.

Thanks much!

Sand
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Reply By: Member - Jim - Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 at 08:46

Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 at 08:46
Sandman13,

I travelled the CSR some 10 years back and there were 2 particularly good maps, WestPrint Maps CSR and the one available from the RACWA.
Both of those would assist you with coordinates etc.

Regards
Jim
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Follow Up By: Sandman13 - Monday, Sep 15, 2008 at 07:34

Monday, Sep 15, 2008 at 07:34
Thank you Jim ~ will look into those.

Much appreciated!
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Reply By: Hairy (NT) - Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 at 09:42

Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 at 09:42
Are you saying you dont have a back up vehicle at all?
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Follow Up By: Kim and Damn Dog - Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 at 18:59

Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 at 18:59
Gidday Hairy

This is the fella I was talking about in a previous post.

He won't listen to reason, so I'll wait to hear about his rescue...

Regards

Kim
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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 at 20:50

Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 at 20:50
Yeah Mate...I gathered that.

Im with you! It sounded fishy from the start.
Everyone to their own I supose. I had a mate who left Broome with camels, going to Melbourne! He made it to Hawker last I heard.
Difference was we was local, and a had a heap of people who would pull him out of the $hit if need be, and he would take advice!

Why is it they want to ban trailers from the Simpson yet you can walk off anywhere you want with no expectation of paying your recovery???

Its probably bull$hit any way! Just another Felix-Dio-Ser...(that cyclist hater)-..........
too many wankers frequenting this site these days. You need to be careful who you offer help to.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Borgy.. (SA) - Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 at 21:43

Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 at 21:43
He could always team up with that wanker oflanigan as well, i beleive he has a "KIA SORRENTO"...haha should make for a good support vehicle...oh forgot to mention the sorento has a "V8"in it...

Cheers......Borgy
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Follow Up By: Member - Borgy.. (SA) - Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 at 21:45

Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 at 21:45
OOPS , sorry hairy , just realised you had already mentioned that Felix of u c k again wanker...

Cheers ....Borgy
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Follow Up By: Sandman13 - Monday, Sep 15, 2008 at 07:54

Monday, Sep 15, 2008 at 07:54
As I will totally agree with the harshness of what I am attempting, there are many things that people do, that seem to ride the border of impossible. My friend of 14 years accomplished this a year ago http://www.runningthesahara.com They ran 4,300 miles (6,920 kilometers) in 111 days. That's 62 km a day with no break. They made a film of it. The 2 fellas he ran with I know from setting a race for them in the Gobi desert http://www.racingtheplanet.com I was walking the Gobi just under the Mongolian border for a month and a half working out a proper course. The average temperature was 48-51C. Charlie left today going for the record http://www.runningamerica08.com with a guy I supported for the adventure racing years in the Philippines and Ecuador. They are running as we speak 112 km a day for 45 days straight. This stuff to me seems unattainable.

I long distance hike. I love the deserts. The time this will take me and the distance aren't my true concern. It's the distance between active water sites so I'm not carrying an elephant on my back. At this point it's not for sure if I am going. It all depends on the status of water and I know that can change at any time. The reason I am hitting the forums is for the search of solid answers.

All the responses have been exactly what I need from curt to enthusiastic. Life is what you make of it. Putting out fires as a fireman in southern California runs me the same risk as I run into flaming buildings on a bi-weekly basis. Actually more so.

Regardless of the responses, I do appreciate them all.

A final note - the guy with the bike did a fine job in 05. http://www.wildworks.co.nz/csr/home.php

Regards
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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Monday, Sep 15, 2008 at 08:57

Monday, Sep 15, 2008 at 08:57
Gday Sandman,
The big question is do you have back up, a way to get out if all turns to $hit? If so what is it?
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Follow Up By: Sandman13 - Monday, Sep 15, 2008 at 09:37

Monday, Sep 15, 2008 at 09:37
I am not here to cost the taxpayer's money. In my line of work I see tax payers money flying out the door in numbers too high to count on an hourly basis. There are 7 months to go until I leave for your fine land. But that's only if things make sense. I do love life, and I do wish to return home, so if there are flags that jump the border of complete foolishness, like 240km of no posotive water based on all feedbacks from 2005 until now. I just wont be going. Again, the heat, the wildlife, the distance really don't tap me on the shoulder. It's the distance between active wells. I can carry my own water with gear for 4 days before refilling. I can do 5 but I have labeled 5 as not worth it based on weight.

So until I hear otherwise about my last few areas of concern I continue to train and streamline my gear.

If it's a "green light" for going, at present I have no backup other than SPOT. http://findmespot.com/Home.aspx Lords knows I have called enough air lifts for people. The idea of someone flying in to get me irks my senses. It means I was either unprepared = my own fault or the status of natural things changed, not my fault. I don't know anyone in Australia. This will be my first time. Have a number of adventure friends in NZ where I've vistied numerous times, but all are out and about or familied down. Wouldn't know what to look for in support. I have Kunnawarritji at 33 to email the folks that I'm not dead, but what do I tell someone else? Drive slow behind me until my face hits the dirt? I don't mean that last sentence in a smart way, but all I can do is continually reevaluate my situation as I progress, and if I need to pull a red card, I should do my best to do so near a more suitable traffic area to hitch a ride if possible - if one ever came along. The time on the plane ticket (not yet booked) will be 3.5 months. That's a window of approx. 3 weeks over what i expect to finish in. My efforts are at 20 miles/ 32 km per day at present in the Mojave desert here at home. At that rate with room for foot injuries, muscle pulls, unknown hampers, and a simple desire to rest it a day, I'm looking at 2 to 2.5 months.

As silly as it might sound I thought of renting a camel to hump my gear, excuse the pun. An accomplished lady, with amazing accolades, by the name of Helen Thayer, of NZ http://www.helenthayer.com used a camel at age 63 and her husband of 74 to cross the Gobi on foot for 2574km. It would save me the grief of carrying the extra water on my back and break down my need to talk to plants for companionship (would be a lot like the ex-wife actually).

Again, if my last question's are answered, I will look further into the back up. For now I don't want to get people in the helping mood only to tell them my research wasn't finished and never mind. I guess I could have someone read a book by the fire at a mid point to restock me, but that sounds worse than my hike.

If any of my words have sounded short, they are not meant that way. I'm just taking things one step at a time and trying to get a lot of details that could sway my journey onto map.

Kind regards
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008 at 11:31

Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008 at 11:31
>The average temperature was 48-51C

Goodness me, you were unlucky - that is very hot for the Gobi.

Mike Harding

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Follow Up By: Member - Rolf D (USA) - Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008 at 14:20

Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008 at 14:20
Fully agreed - we had to portage back to a small town where they had apparently never seen a Caucasian to take a brake as the 4x4's (x2) interpreters trucks were losing brake fluid due to the lines and connections expanding from the heat. The company required a mountain pass also for the race, so luckily a week later we were at a mountain temple, like in the movies, that had a minor amount of snow still around it. Hard hike to it but well worth the heat break.
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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008 at 22:01

Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008 at 22:01
Gday Sandman,
The big question is do you have back up, a way to get out if all turns to $hit? If so what is it?
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Reply By: Member - John (Vic) - Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 at 10:44

Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 at 10:44
There was a Spanish bloke on here awhile ago who wanted to ride his push bike across the country.

Why don't you team up so he can carry your water on his push bike?

At least the Australian taxpayer will then only have to foot the bill for one rescue to pick both of you up (Or recover your bodies) at the same time.
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Reply By: equinox - Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 at 11:09

Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 at 11:09
Sandman,

Some of the places you mention are listed on this site:

http://www.wilsen.org/hutch/canning.txt

I have always wanted to do an extended desert walk myself. Be careful and good luck to you.

Cheers
Alan


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In whatever comes our way.



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Follow Up By: equinox - Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 at 11:11

Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 at 11:11
I must add that as with any information that is found on the internet, this info should not be relied upon, but used as a guide only.

Looking for adventure.
In whatever comes our way.



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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 at 15:08

Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 at 15:08
Will second that - the location of Well 45 according to the waypoint list provided is over 10km away from its actual position (as shown on Hema and Westprint maps anyway)!

Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: Sandman13 - Monday, Sep 15, 2008 at 07:37

Monday, Sep 15, 2008 at 07:37
Thank you equinox - that site helped! Good luck to you if you hit the sands some day.
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Follow Up By: Sandman13 - Monday, Sep 15, 2008 at 08:26

Monday, Sep 15, 2008 at 08:26
Equinox - that page link you sent was epic. Had at least 6 out of 10 that I had curiosity about. Thanks VERY much again!

Sand
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Reply By: Member - Mick O (VIC) - Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 at 15:14

Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 at 15:14
Have you searched the "places" directory on this site? Might be worth a try.

Mick
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trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
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Follow Up By: Member - Mick O (VIC) - Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 at 15:17

Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 at 15:17
Your name is Robert Bogucki by any chance is it?
''We knew from the experience of well-known travelers that the
trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
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Follow Up By: Sandman13 - Monday, Sep 15, 2008 at 07:56

Monday, Sep 15, 2008 at 07:56
No sir ~ it's not. Rolf is my first name.

Cheers
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Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 at 17:52

Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 at 17:52
Good luck with that sandman13,

Take a spare pair of thongs in case you get a nasty puncture!!! Michael
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Follow Up By: Sandman13 - Monday, Sep 15, 2008 at 07:57

Monday, Sep 15, 2008 at 07:57
Will do Michael =)
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Reply By: Dave(NSW) - Monday, Sep 15, 2008 at 10:02

Monday, Sep 15, 2008 at 10:02
Sandman,
There's a guy out here Pat Farmer who has run across the Simpson Desert & across America. He could give you good info on the trip you plan,He is now a Local MP in the Campbelltown area in Sydney,It would probably be worthwhile getting in contact with him.Good Luck.
Cheers Dave...
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Follow Up By: Sandman13 - Monday, Sep 15, 2008 at 13:00

Monday, Sep 15, 2008 at 13:00
Thank you Dave ~ I will look Mr. farmer up and see if he has a moment to shed some light. Leads like this, no matter where they end up, are extremely helpful. Thank you again!

Sandman
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Reply By: Vivid Adventures - Monday, Sep 15, 2008 at 15:33

Monday, Sep 15, 2008 at 15:33
I don't really want to encourage you, but you might want to read this:

SMH article

Taking a camel or two would be reasonable enough idea, but you'd want it to carry a gun so you could ward off potential suitors.

Many of the water sources on the Canning are now either stopped or hugely messed up by camels too - a reasonably recent phenomenon, so don't count on the water being there even if it was there a few months previous. There are camel tracks more prevalent than any other tracks - including vehicles at times, and there are camels over almost every dune.

Cheers,
Andrew.
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Follow Up By: Sandman13 - Monday, Sep 15, 2008 at 15:53

Monday, Sep 15, 2008 at 15:53
The link that you posted Andrew is of interest to me. I know camels can be like sheep with eating a location barren - except in this case water.

When I try to view the link though it comes up as unfound. Might you be able to retry it? I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you so much
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Follow Up By: equinox - Monday, Sep 15, 2008 at 16:02

Monday, Sep 15, 2008 at 16:02
Try this one Right Here

I like his quote, "Everyone thought it would be completely crazy to do such an idea. I'm really happy, not because I made it through, but because it's finished."

Might be crazy for some, but certainly not him.


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Follow Up By: Sandman13 - Monday, Sep 15, 2008 at 16:16

Monday, Sep 15, 2008 at 16:16
Hmmm - unique. I've had a mountain lion try and take me in the Angeles Nat'l forest, more black bears than I can count every where else. But camels... I'm gonna have to let that one sit on the grey matter for a couple of days. They remind me of moose when I was in Alaska, whcih are not to be trifled with. I've dealt with quite a few in China, but this sounds different. I will try to contact this Andrew and see if I can get a calm description. Always have a side arm in the states when things get dodgy, but unless I make a spear like Rambo, it might not be worth the trouble.

This - was a very important message - I thank you whole heartedly.

Much appreciated!
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Monday, Sep 15, 2008 at 16:18

Monday, Sep 15, 2008 at 16:18
Its OK Aussie camels don't eat yanks :-)
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Follow Up By: Sandman13 - Monday, Sep 15, 2008 at 16:27

Monday, Sep 15, 2008 at 16:27
I can't stop laughing John. I just finished making a serious comment to Mr. Louis-Philippe Loncke on his website, and now a moment of laughter - thank you. I'll be sure to wet myself down when i can so I'm not a tempting mobile salt lick.
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Follow Up By: Vivid Adventures - Monday, Sep 15, 2008 at 18:45

Monday, Sep 15, 2008 at 18:45
I did mean that the bull camels in season might be very interested in any cows you had in estrus, esp. if you have them tied up... which you would probably have to do.

Of course bull camels in season are not a sight to behold, nor a smell to savour...
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Reply By: geocacher (djcache) - Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008 at 11:11

Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008 at 11:11
Hi Rolf,

I did the Canning in 2005 as a Paramedic providing medical support to a bike group.

You are right, walking it has been attempted before, but last time it was attempted more of the wells were in usable condition.

You can contact me via my website link below & I'll email you any waypoints I have and my track file.

I'll have to dig my trip diary out but I would estimate off the top of my head that you would be lucky to find usable water at more than about 10-15 water points.

2000km divided by 10-15 isn't a great average distance but again from memory there were some stretches where water was no problem and quite close together but others where there were very long hauls - several days @ average 90km per day where the only water was completely unpotable. I can check my diary for a more accurate assessment.

Many of the wells restored for the Centenary Stock Drive which was supposed to happen in '06 had been flooded and were completely stuffed by floods over the last decade. The area & water reeked of Sulphur and other odours. These wells will take years to recover if they ever do.

The stock drive never went ahead from what I heard due to lack of available water.

Quite a few of the marked sites of the wells on Hema's map were significantly out also and the rabbit warren of tracks around them made them hard to find.

There was a dead camel or emu in Durba that had contaminated a water hole there showing how easy it is for a good water source to go bad in a short timeframe.

If I'm thinking of the right spot Munjingerra Cave had collapsed & I'm pretty sure you would have trouble accessing it. I can't recall if the small tunnel was blocked but certainly getting in and out of where you accessed it wasn't possible carrying any quantity of water - and I wasn't keen on the stories of people meeting snakes in the tunnel anyway!

I think you will find that the wells available to the last attempt were in far better condition and more plentiful.

I admire your intention but I don't think that what you are canvassing doing is feasible at this point in time and you that this is likely to be the case for several years if at all recovery of some of the wells can be achieved.

Well restoration that took place in the 80's & 90's occurred when fuel was easier to get and cheaper. Taking a well restoration party out now would be a far more expensive exercise and without the impetus provided by the centenary stock drive the well restoring parties don't have a huge sponsorship cash cow to ride.

Good luck. Don't count on passers by. We did the top of the Canning from Billiluna to Well 33 over a period of a week without seeing a soul.

Dave



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Follow Up By: Member - Rolf D (USA) - Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008 at 14:14

Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008 at 14:14
Tremendous!

Again another amazing feedback hits the page. Your message sings very clear to me as this course and the constant mapping and remapping I have done have almost made it see able. The planet overall seems to be hurting for water as it has been made evident from the major speakers the past few years. When I first started planning this I remember saying to myself, "if it's possible, do it, because there may not be another chance if things keep drying up.

I was a Navy medic, VA worker, and ambulance EMT for some time so I feel a kinship. What I will probably do is still train and plan, but make ready for not going if need be. This doesn't need to be a Shackleton moment.

I have 7 months to go and will send you an email with what I have so far. My list of "yeses" for wells is based on feedback that has had redundant answers. Most of the walking sections are 2 days apart. Traveling with 4 days of water isn't bad, but there are two sections that put it at 5 days. I am interested in what you have in your notes. Thank you very very much Dave.

Rolf
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Follow Up By: Kim and Damn Dog - Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008 at 18:05

Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008 at 18:05
Gidday Dave

We did'nt abandon the 2006 Canning Stock Route Reinactment because of water. A lot of thought and design was put into water bladders, which were to be carted on 4wd utes to cover those areas were water was considered a problem.

The real reason was we could'nt get support from the WA Goverment, or funding (despite enormous support from the locals thoughout the Kimberley and Pilbura. The cost from memory was about $1.1m.

Regards

Kim
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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008 at 21:57

Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008 at 21:57
Gday Kim,
Was the the $1.1m including your grog or was that just you grog????

Cheers
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Follow Up By: geocacher (djcache) - Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008 at 23:03

Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008 at 23:03
Hi Kim,

I happily stand corrected. What was the longest distance between good water that you expected to have to deal with?

Dave
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Follow Up By: Kim and Damn Dog - Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008 at 23:30

Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008 at 23:30
Gidday Hairy

No doubt agout the grog. Cripes you can't expect a man to be sober for three an a half months mate.

We gave it a fair go over four years and I reckon on average it cost each of the committee members at least $15,000 out of own pocket.

Crap happen's unfortunatly. I'll send you a MM and explain it.

Regards

Kim
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