Wondering what vehicle to get.
Submitted: Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 12:06
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Sobriquet
Hi, I am having some trouble picking what vehicle to get - heres my requirements - I want to do 4wd trips during my holidays, towing a ~800kg off-road camper trailer. However, when working I do a lot of city driving (600km/week) - so fuel consumption is an issue.
Theres just 2 of us so space is not important. Also want to keep the vehicle long term - many years so a durable, quality car. I get a car lease from work, so I can spend up to around $35k.
I was thinking a '06 Toyota Hilux twincab, but have some concerns about the back not being dustproof. Is it possible to get them satisfactorily dustproof? Otherwise they seem to fit the bill.
I'm also looking at '06 GX prados - just in my price range. Any thoughts on them? Any reason to choose a Hilux over one of these?
The other thing I'm concerned about is the newer common rail diesel engines (probably worth a thread on it's own this).
I know they are very economical, but Ive had several people tell me that they would be a nightmare to fix if you had a problem in the bush, and that the fuel pump may give out once they've done a bit of work (eg 150,000k), and cost at least $5000 to replace. Is this just people not trusting new technology or what?
The advice Im getting is "get the model just before - more durable & reliable", however those appear to use significantly more fuel, & at 30,000k city driving a year, that will add up too.
Suggestions for other vehicles would be most welcome.
Reply By: bigred70 - Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 12:36
Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 12:36
Hi,
I have a 2005 GXL TD Prado and I love it.
It is the last of the TD's with the
old engine. While some might call it old technology, it has been tried and tested for years so although it has less KW's and less torque than the new D4D, I think it is a better buy in the second-hand market.
In my opinion, if you are doing alot of city driving (like me) you would be better off with the prado. Don't forget that a hilux is a commercial vehicle designed to have a load in the back - the prado drives much better and has a better finish (more comfortable seats etc). Also dual airbags and ABS are a bonus.
With the wagon you've got no problems with dust,
water or theft. I can't see the point in getting a ute and then putting a canopy on it if you are never intending on using it as an actual ute. In my opinion you are just replicating a wagon but loose all the advantages of a non-commercial vehicle.
Anyway I'm sure some people strongly disagree...
AnswerID:
334051
Follow Up By: young_codger - Saturday, Nov 08, 2008 at 10:15
Saturday, Nov 08, 2008 at 10:15
I hate Prados. They look like a mum's taxi.
I have a Hilux and it has an excellent ride. While Hiluxes are commercial vehicles, the
suspension on most models isn't overly harsh and really does give a sweet ride - plus you won't like like you've got the missus's car... They can also be bought with all the fruit.
FollowupID:
601949
Follow Up By: Wherehegon - Saturday, Nov 08, 2008 at 11:49
Saturday, Nov 08, 2008 at 11:49
Young_codger, everyone to their own opinion. While I agree with you that there are alot of mums Taxi's around city area's, there are also a huge amount of prado's with muddies, bullbar, lights,uhf etc and decked write out touring the outback, with their huge 180Litre tanks on the 120 series 159L on the 95 series fuel range expecially in the diesel is brilliant, Your looking closely to 2000k with the 120 series with a D4D in it. As far as the hilux goes their is no comparison in ride comfort especially when empty. Your talking about a comercial vehicle meant for carrying loads, the other for carrying possibly a family of 4 or 5 in comfort. I personally do miss the hilux I use to have as I was able to carry stuff around town, then when going away load up the back, fridge on the back
seat (duelcab) 170L
water tank in the rear plus all the gear. I do find the prado a bit restrictive in the cargo area and definately cant get as much in plus also alot more carefull not to go damaging inside the rear of the cargo area. With kids,a trailer is needed depending on where and how long your going for. The hilux was very good ride when loaded but unloaded was tail happy especially in the wet, the ride wasnt too bad didnt need a kidney belt like some of my mates did I had OME all round but still doesnt give the comfort ride of a prado admittedly myn was leaf sprung all round not torshion bar like the IFS models. There is so many plusus and minusus I can think of between the two vehicles but in general both will get you where you want to go. IFS will let them down BUT that is mainly when you start getting into the hard stuff and have heard of a few IFS shockies not handling the ruff stuff as
well as coil or round. Personally cant beat the old/new 4.2D patrols or 80 series cruiser. Once again personal choice for me. WHG
FollowupID:
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Reply By: Member - Porl - Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 12:49
Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 12:49
If it's fuel economy you want check out the new isuzus at www.isuzuute.com.au , very impressive, but of course untested and untried. Mind you the figures on the fuel economy test do not match those on the official fuel figures so I dunno what to make of that other than that perhaps they were travelling at 80km/hr in 5th or something.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Isuzumu - Monday, Nov 10, 2008 at 19:55
Monday, Nov 10, 2008 at 19:55
Hi Porl, The model they used for that test was a 4X2 single cab, and the Isuzu D-Max is the same vehicle as the Holden Rodeo/Colardo. They are both built in Thailand but at different factories.
Cheers Bruce.
FollowupID:
602316
Reply By: tazbaz - Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 13:18
Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 13:18
Hard to go past a Kia Sorento - good economy, plenty of power, fantastic to drive in the city and an impressive towing capacity (2800 kg). New price around $36k
AnswerID:
334059
Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 14:15
Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 14:15
My neighbour has had two of these The first one kept chucking cranksahft pulleys ( The old model)
The new model was thirsty when towing.
He sold it and has a 1 HZ 100 series now. Probably no better fuel economy but much more capacity which is a problem with the Kia.
They dont hold much in the back.
FollowupID:
601848
Reply By: Member - Serg (VIC) - Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 13:25
Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 13:25
RE: Reliability of common-rail diesels.
I am NOT a fan of overcomplicated stuff in 4WDs that really going bush and prefer simple mechanical solution like my 1HZ in LC80. However “fixing common-rail in bush is nightmare” argument is quite moot because fixing fully mechanical diesel in bush will be no simpler. You will be totally and completely screwed if you have broken high-pressure pump in fully mechanical diesel. Not only it unfixable in bush, but it also unfixable in garage – need to be taken out and serviced in diesel specialist place.
Thus I would say it is not common-rail versus convenient, but rather proven reliable engine versus problematic or new one. Perhaps it is wise to steer off from new common-rail diesel, but not because it is common-rail, but because it not mature enough.
Cheers
Serg
AnswerID:
334060
Reply By: Member - Oldbaz. NSW. - Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 13:56
Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 13:56
Try this for size...Budget is $35k OK ?...spend $10 to $15 on a
good economical 4 cyl
sedan... no point in paying 4WD fuel rates
when running around town. The fuel you save in 30k of city driving will pay your holiday fuel costs. Spend the rest on the best 4wd you can get for the money, & use it for holidays. It will last
forever. The purchase price of both vehicles will drop a lot in the next 6 months due to the financial pressure bearing on car retailers. The added cost of Reg & Ins will be offset by the savings you make on depreciation on a $35k vehicle. Your daily running costs much less than driving a 4WD every k.
What do you reckon?........oldbaz.
AnswerID:
334065
Follow Up By: WA Joe - Saturday, Nov 08, 2008 at 06:35
Saturday, Nov 08, 2008 at 06:35
I totally agree, If you are patient and careful you can buy a very tidy and
well set up 80 series wagon or similar in the low $20s and pick up a 4cyl city runaround with the rest. the extra rego will be offset by the savings in fuel and other running costs that 600k a week will amount to in a 4x4.
Regards,
Joe.
FollowupID:
601933
Follow Up By: young_codger - Saturday, Nov 08, 2008 at 10:20
Saturday, Nov 08, 2008 at 10:20
Start a caryard at home!!!
It will always be full, as the car's will need work done on them. Then when you do go on holidays, it'll break down on you.
I think hiring a 4wd twice a year would be a better option than this.
FollowupID:
601951
Follow Up By: Member - Oldbaz. NSW. - Saturday, Nov 08, 2008 at 11:02
Saturday, Nov 08, 2008 at 11:02
Bit pessimistic, I feel,
young-codger. I've never had a serious break
down in either of my 15 year old Peugeots. My 2000 Jack went
around Oz without a spanner on it. All 3 of them wouldnt make
$15k if I sold them. Give me the $35k budget this bloke has & I
can get a car & 4wd that will give years of trouble free service.
Paying around $5k to hire a 4WD every year doesnt appear very
good value to me. However if you feel you are unable to buy
reliable used vehicles you should stick to new ones & perhaps
avoid all those breakdowns. Mind you, the $5k to $10k a year depreciation you're paying would fix the odd problem.
cheers...oldbaz.
FollowupID:
601960
Reply By: Moose - Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 14:19
Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 14:19
What you haven't given us is how serious the 4WD trips will be. What sort of trips are you planning? If all you will be doing is sticking to bitumen and good dirt then you may not need something as tough as the vehicles you listed. So please expand a bit upon your plans.
BTW - clever name choice :-)
Cheers from the Moose
AnswerID:
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Reply By: Best Off Road - Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 14:35
Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 14:35
For $35 you can get into a brand new Ssangyong Actyon Twin Cab Ute.
Very
well appointed, getting great reviews.
Why buy second hand when you can get into a brand spanker with a four or five year warranty?
Jim.
AnswerID:
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Reply By: Philip A - Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 18:04
Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 18:04
Why not get a petrol Prado. much cheaper than a diesel and no great probs with a gut of bad fuel.
I just went to
Darwin from
Sydney and back in my old Range Rover Classic. I had a problem early on with the car starving for fuel. It would only go on very light throttle.
Got to
Mataranka and swapped fuel, and filter but still problem.
Pulled out the fuel pump and found the inlet blocked by fluff, because of a small tear in the sock filter. Put in my spare with good sock, no further problems, no damage, no cost.
In my 4WD club the majority of stopped cars on trips are diesels with blocked filters.
I once had my Nissan Patrol GQ petrol filled with diesel by a
young operator. A lot of smoke later, a drain out, away she went no problem. Try that with a diesel.
Regards Philip A
AnswerID:
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Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 20:52
Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 20:52
Take a look at what the people who live and work in the bush actually buy an operate in the bush, and ask why.
1. Diesel
2. Toyota commercial, ie Hilux or Cruiser.
End of story
Cheers,
Peter (an OKA owner!)
OKA196 Motorhome
AnswerID:
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Reply By: Philip A - Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 22:18
Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 22:18
Farmers buy diesels because they scam the excise free diesel they should be using in their tractors.
It has ever been so.
Farmers were the only ones who bought Mercedes 300 diesels in the old days.
Don't pretend otherwise pleeeeaaaase.
Regards Philip A
AnswerID:
334150
Follow Up By: Member - Happy Gutz (QLD) - Saturday, Nov 08, 2008 at 07:00
Saturday, Nov 08, 2008 at 07:00
I do spend most of my time in the sticks, unlike some, have yet to see a petrol powered tractor or much other farm machinery. Also bulk storage of diesel is much safer than that of petrol. Property I left yesterday had 4000l diesel, 200l unleaded.
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Reply By: Rent-A-Rig - Saturday, Nov 08, 2008 at 06:22
Saturday, Nov 08, 2008 at 06:22
Doing 600k per week in city driving then your choice certainly needs to be focussed on a comfortable, economical city car. Then it probaly makes sense to then put the savings towards owning a second dedicated 4wd for the holidays , or hiring a vehicle in the location you want to go.
RACQ figures show that the operating costs of a 4wd on diesel are $404 per week compared to $246 for a Holden Commodore. That $150 per week amounts to $7800 per year to spend your holidays.
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Follow Up By: Krakka - Monday, Nov 10, 2008 at 18:08
Monday, Nov 10, 2008 at 18:08
It's a pity RACQ figures don't tell you what they take into account.
Or if they do could you show a breakdown of the $404.00 a week. Please? Is this a diesel Rocky or a F250?
Cheers
Krakka
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Reply By: Member - Barnesy - Saturday, Nov 08, 2008 at 07:33
Saturday, Nov 08, 2008 at 07:33
Agree with a couple of posters above. Get a s/hand fourby for the trip away and get a little city runabout for daily use. You can pick up a very good GQ, Pajero, Rodeo, Hilux or 80 series for $10-12 000 that will last a long time. Why spend all of that money wrestling with a 4wd around a city when a little car will do?
You will end up saving money in the long run.
Barnesy
AnswerID:
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Reply By: Sobriquet - Monday, Nov 10, 2008 at 14:59
Monday, Nov 10, 2008 at 14:59
Thanks for all the replies, sorry I didnt respond earlier - just got too busy. Hm just gettin a cheaper 4wd for hols is a good idea & I am thinking on that. I didnt mention that I've got a perfectly good subaru Forester (work lease just finished)
Was going to make that the wife's car, & I was going to trade in her Pulsar SSS - also had from new, but 220,000ks getting a bit long in tooth (using a bit of oil etc, power steering pump leaking etc).
So - might go for cheaper hilux or sthg, keep Forester (its a great solid car, and fuel economy is quite good really - I get 9.2 town, 7.2 cruising), and maybe trade the Pulsar in on something really economical for city driving.
I need to really think about this though - because theres a big advantage to getting a leased car thru work, it saves almost 50% cf financing and operating the same car yourself - but it has to be < 5 years old & you have to do over 25,000ks pa.. At the end you have a (still) pretty valuable car to either keep or trade.
Re seriousness of trips - mostly pretty safe stuff, but probably some seriously corrugated roads, also once in a while I plan to do a tag-along with a few friends who do pretty serious stuff at times.
I will generally be towing an offroad camper trailer - and its just a little hard for the Forester. Plus its a bit limiting where you can go with a Forester towing a load.
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Reply By: Krakka - Monday, Nov 10, 2008 at 18:11
Monday, Nov 10, 2008 at 18:11
Personally I would keep the Suby and buy the T/D Prado. Very nice to drive and very capable off road. Also relatively fuel efficient.
Regards
Krakka
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Reply By: Isuzumu - Monday, Nov 10, 2008 at 20:06