water injection

Submitted: Friday, Nov 21, 2008 at 21:32
ThreadID: 63710 Views:3340 Replies:8 FollowUps:6
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hi all i have a question . is there any benerfits in putting a water injection kit onto a none turbo petrol motor? i mean power wise , economy etc ? looking forward to the replies on this one. cheers
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Reply By: Member - Redbakk (WA) - Friday, Nov 21, 2008 at 22:26

Friday, Nov 21, 2008 at 22:26
Father in law had it on his valiant ute until one day it did not turn off and filled the engine with water so that he could not turn it over without removing the spark plugs....lol

After that he took it off and tossed it.

But it did not make any difference at all except make his wallet lighter.... : ))

It's one of those gimmicks that comes around every now and again harvest a new batch of unsuspecting hopefuls....so be warned..save your money.......there is no free lunch!

.
AnswerID: 336396

Reply By: Flywest - Friday, Nov 21, 2008 at 23:44

Friday, Nov 21, 2008 at 23:44
A better option might be to google search the term "browns gas" and put one of those under the hood!

Still uses water for cheap power - and it works!

Cheers
AnswerID: 336403

Follow Up By: GerryP - Saturday, Nov 22, 2008 at 00:02

Saturday, Nov 22, 2008 at 00:02
Not trying to be a pessimist, but unfortunately it takes more energy to split the water into it's gaseous components than it releases during combustion. Therefore it decreases a car's efficiency rather than increase it. Doing a wiki on Browns gas will confirm this also.

Like they say, if it sounds too good to be true.... ah well.
Gerry
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Saturday, Nov 22, 2008 at 11:25

Saturday, Nov 22, 2008 at 11:25
I agree Gerry
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Follow Up By: Flywest - Saturday, Nov 22, 2008 at 15:01

Saturday, Nov 22, 2008 at 15:01
This post has been read by the moderation team and has been moderated due to a breach of The Foul Language Rule .

Forum Moderation Team
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Follow Up By: GerryP - Saturday, Nov 22, 2008 at 16:57

Saturday, Nov 22, 2008 at 16:57
Flywest, Yes I did my homework and yes, as I stated in my followup I did Google it and in fact from the wiki I quote

"Oxyhydrogen is often mentioned in conjunction with devices that claim to operate a car using water as a fuel. Because the energy required to split water exceeds the energy recouped by burning it, these devices reduce, rather than improve fuel efficiency."

At no stage did I state that a petroleum vehicle was efficient and that a car wouldn't run on Browns gas.

Petroleum is refined before you put it in your tank, thus all you have to do is burn it, and yes there are pollutants and it is very inefficient etc. (especially my 4WD!!).

If you want to run a car only on HHO by only putting water in the tank, then you need an additional source of energy to help in doing that as the energy released by burning HHO will not produce enough to turn the water into it's gaseous elements as well as power the car, hence the comments and the quote above.

As I said originally, I don't like to be pessimistic and I certainly don't want to sound like a know-it-all or to bag anyone's comments, but if what I know and understand conflicts with something in a post, then I will (politely) offer my side of the argument.

I have seen a number of cars running with HHO devices as an add-on to their normal petrol engine with all kinds of claims regarding power and economy. I am yet to be convinced, but there's no way I will condemn anyone who thinks otherwise.

Have a great day.
Gerry
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Follow Up By: zacc - Saturday, Nov 22, 2008 at 18:48

Saturday, Nov 22, 2008 at 18:48
fight you guys fight. i have looked into the brown gas aswell but there is a bit of mucking around . you have to make a device that changes the signal from the oxy sensor because as the brown gas enters and is burnt it gives a lean reading and thus the ecu richens up the mixture. so this sort of defeats the purpose .
thanks any way all suggestions are appreciated.
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Reply By: Flywest - Friday, Nov 21, 2008 at 23:45

Friday, Nov 21, 2008 at 23:45
A better option might be to google search the term "browns gas" and put one of those under the hood!

Still uses water for cheap power - and it works!

Cheers
AnswerID: 336404

Reply By: GerryP - Friday, Nov 21, 2008 at 23:55

Friday, Nov 21, 2008 at 23:55
Hi Zacc,
Water injection has been around nearly as long as the combustion engine. It was also used with some early aviation engines. Done correctly it can have some benefits but suggest that in today's high performance and high compression engines it's probably marginal.

Back in my younger days, we fitted water injection to a supercharged FB Holden along with a set of triple strombergs sitting on top. In the end it was just too much hassle trying to keep the water side tuned and working properly so we gave it away.

The latent heat of evaporation will absorb heat from the surrounding air, thus cooling the intake temperature and making the air somewhat denser. This, in turn, will create a benefit, however you would probably get the same effect by upping the boost a tad.

Not sure I'd spend too much money on it and it's just something else to go wrong.

Cheers
Gerry
AnswerID: 336406

Reply By: Shaker - Saturday, Nov 22, 2008 at 17:29

Saturday, Nov 22, 2008 at 17:29
It's moisture laden air that makes your vehicle feel good on a cold night!
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Reply By: puttputt - Saturday, Nov 22, 2008 at 22:07

Saturday, Nov 22, 2008 at 22:07
Another angle, it is a known fact that at high altitudes, such as Johannesburg in S Africa, the air is thinner, and hence less oxygen, and equals about 15 % power loss(if I remember correctly), I remember driving down to the coast and the car felt like it was turbo charged. So enriching the intake with more oxygen should improve the combustion 'without nuclear fusion'. Maybe water injection could achieve this by releasing oxygen into the mixture?
AnswerID: 336498

Reply By: disco driver - Saturday, Nov 22, 2008 at 22:40

Saturday, Nov 22, 2008 at 22:40
For those old enough to remember, back in the days of the 48 and FJ series Holdens an engineer named Frank Kleinig developed a water injection system which was fitted to a few engines (mainly taxi's in Sydney and I think Melbourne as well).

Didn't hear much about it so I guess it didn't work as well as expected. If H2O injection did work why isn't it still available today. maybe it is incompatible with the hi tech engine designs of today.

From memory, and that can be inaccurate, I recollect that Kleinig water injection was advertised in "Modern Motor", an Australian Motoring magazine (possibly owned by Packer and printed in the 50's).

Does anyone else remember those times, Holden, Ford Zephyr and Consul, Austin A40 and A70, Morris Minor and Oxford, Vauxhall Velox and Wyvern and all the other makes once common on our roads.

How things have changed.

Disco.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Saturday, Nov 22, 2008 at 23:20

Saturday, Nov 22, 2008 at 23:20
At least we understood them then!
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Reply By: gilghana - Sunday, Nov 23, 2008 at 06:32

Sunday, Nov 23, 2008 at 06:32
Guys,
water injection is very much alive and kicking! Almost all WRC rally cars run it and those crazy tractor pulling folk too. On high output petrol turbo engines it is used to prevent knock. I am really not sure what if any benefits you would get on a naturally aspirated petrol. On a diesel it has the effect of lowering charge temperatures as well as releasing more power on the power stroke as the water is turned to steam. On turbo petrol and diesels many WI fans add methanol to release more power. WWII fighters needing emergency power as well as formula one are other areas where WI has been used. It is also used on turbine aero engines. WI is not some sort of snake oil or fiction. Aquamist are probably the current worlds foremost system designers/manufacturers. Google it.
Cheers,
Gil
AnswerID: 336516

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