Travellers to the Centre Beware!!

Submitted: Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 21:30
ThreadID: 65027 Views:4917 Replies:11 FollowUps:38
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Anyone travelling out around the Western Mac's take note of the new alcohol restrictions......people are getting caught out.
Numerous times I have driven out that way, seen the new signs and presumed the "prescribed areas" where you can not carry alcohol was the aboriginal land not the road.....I was wrong.
eg. The road from Alice to Glen Helen all comes under the prescribed areas laws. (and others)

The law says you can only carry small amounts of unopened alcohol through a prescribed area if you can prove your going all the way through.
No opened alcohol can be carried at all.
This means if your going camping at say Birthday waterhole you will not be travelling through the prescribed area, only into it
therefore are not allowed to take a drink. Yes...no more sitting around the camp fire having a beer etc.
This also means if your comming around the Merrinee loop from the Canyon to Alice and have an opened bottle of port/bourbon/scotch whatever you will need to tip it out before you leave or you will up for a $1100 fine, first offence and have any other alcohol (opened or unopened) you are carying confiscated.
People are getting caught...so be warned.

Cheers
Hairy
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Reply By: get outmore - Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 21:42

Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 21:42
yep-really improving the lives of those living in the communities
- do they not get it?
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Reply By: Bob the - Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 21:50

Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 21:50
G'day Hairy. Thanks for the warning.we were thinking of heading up that way later in the year as a boys trip. I think we might reconsider. Sounds like its now a carefully thought out family trip.
AnswerID: 343791

Follow Up By: DIO - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 09:05

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 09:05
Life without booze is SOOOO much better. No hangovers, no boozy breath, no foul tastes in the mouth, no furry toungue, no worries about the 'booze bus', lots more money in the pocket and best of all I am now in control of my every action and it's great. Life is so different.
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Follow Up By: Member - Ian W (NSW) - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 10:28

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 10:28
If you drank that much and were that much "out of control" then yes, life would be very dfferent.

Ian.
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Reply By: Willem - Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 22:14

Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 22:14
Hmmmm... we are going to be a sober lot, eh?

It is very difficult to actually pinpoint the legislation on the internet regarding thoroughfares(roads). I was quite surprised at the National Parks alcohol laws. I know it was posted here by Steve some time ago.

National and Northern Territory parks
List of prescribed and not prescribed parks
If a park is prescribed, it is an offence to possess, consume, transport, or sell alcohol in the park.

Disclaimer
The information on this table was accurate as of 22 November 2007.
While every effort has been made to ensure the table is up-to-date, please check: www.facsia.gov.au/nter/legis_areas.htm for any “New Declarations” to ensure that you have the latest information before going to a park.

Park Prescribed
Kakadu National Park — This includes East Alligator and Jim Jim Ranger Stations and the Headquarters area. This excludes South Alligator Mary River Ranger Stations and Jabiru as well as Merl, Garnamarr, Gunlom, Mardugal and Muirella Campgrounds. Yes
Uluru-Kata Tjuta National Park — This excludes the Coach Sunset Viewing Area and the Car Sunset Viewing Area. Yes
Nitmuluk National Park — This excludes Leliyn Campground. Yes

Adelaide River Foreshore Conservation Area No
Alice Springs Desert Park No
Alice Springs Protection Area No
Alice Springs Telegraph Station Historical Reserve No
Alligator Lagoon Conservation Area No
Annaburro Delta Block Conservation Area No
Anna’s Reservoir Conservation Reserve No
Arltunga Historical Reserve No
Attack Creek Historical Reserve No
Barranyi (North Island) National Park No
Barrow Creek Telegraph Station Historical Reserve No
Berry Springs Nature Park/Territory Wildlife Park No
Black Jungle / Labell’s Lagoon Conservation Area No
Blackmore River Conservation Area No
Botanic Gardens (George Brown, Darwin) No
Buffalo Creek Management Agreement Area No
Bullwaddy Conservation Reserve No
Butterfly Gorge Nature Park No
Caranbirini Conservation Reserve No
Casuarina Coastal Reserve No
Central Mount Stuart Historical Reserve No
Chamber’s Pillar Historical Reserve No
Channel Island Conservation Reserve No
Channel Point Coastal Reserve No
Charles Darwin Coastal Reserve No
Charles Darwin National Park No
Connells Lagoon Conservation Reserve No
Corroboree Rock Conservation Reserve No
Cutta Cutta Caves Nature Park No
Daly River (Mt Nancar) Conservation Area No
Davenport Range National Park No
Desert Park (Alice Springs) No
Devil’s Marbles Conservation Reserve No
Djukbinj National Park No
Douglas River/ Daly River Esplanade Conservation Area No
Dulcie Ranges National Park No
Elsey National Park No
Emily and Jessie Gaps Nature Park No
Ewaninga Rock Carvings Conservation Reserve No
Finke Gorge National Park No
Flora River Nature Park No
Fogg Dam Conservation Reserve No
Frew Ponds Overland Telegraph Line Memorial Historical Reserve No
Garig Gunak Barlu National Park No
George Brown Darwin Botanic Gardens No
Gregory National Park No
Gregory’s Tree Historical Reserve No
Harrison Dam Conservation Area No
Heavitree Gap Police Station Historical Reserve No
Henbury Meteorites Conservation Reserve No
Holmes Jungle Nature Park No
Howard Springs Hunting Reserve No
Howard Springs Nature Park No
Illamurta Springs Conservation Reserve No
Ilparpa Springs Conservation Reserve
Indian Island Forest Reserve Conservation Area No
John Flynn’s Grave Historical Reserve No
John Flynn Historical Reserve No
Joint Geological/Geophysical Reserve No
Junction Reserve Management Agreement Area No
Katherine Low Level Nature Park No
Keep River National Park No
Kintore Caves Conservation Reserve No
Knuckey Lagoons Conservation Reserve No
Kuyunba Conservation Reserve No
Leaning Tree Lagoon Nature Park No
Leanyer Recreation Park No
Limmen National Park No
Litchfield National Park No
Longreach Waterhole Protected Area No
Mac Clark (Acacia peuce) Conservation Reserve No
Manton Dam Recreation Area No
Mary River National Park (proposed) No
Mary River Crossing Conservation Area No
Melacca Swamp Conservation Area No
N’dhala Gorge Nature Park No
Native Gap Conservation Reserve No
Oolloo Crossing Conservation Area No
Owen Springs Reserve No
Point Stuart Coastal Reserve Conservation Area No
Purta Co-management Area Conservation Area No
Rainbow Valley Conservation Reserve No
Ruby Gap Nature Park No
Ryan Well Historical Reserve No
Shady Camp Conservation Area No
Shoal Bay Coastal Reserve No
Spirit Hills (extension to Keep River National Park) No
Stray Creek Conservation Area No
Stuart’s Tree Historical Reserve (included in Mary River NP) No
Swim Creek Conservation Area No
Tennant Creek Telegraph Station Historical Reserve No
Territory Wildlife Park No
Tjuwaliyn (Douglas) Hot Springs Park No
Tnorala (Gosse Bluff) Conservation Reserve No
Tree Point Conservation Area No
Trephina Gorge Nature Park No
Umbrawarra Gorge Nature Park No
Vernon Islands Conservation Area No
Victoria River Depot Historical Reserve No
Watarrka National Park No
West Macdonnell National Park No
Wildman River Conservation Area No
Window on the Wetlands Visitor Centre No


Cheers...the world is going mad!!!!!


AnswerID: 343797

Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 22:24

Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 22:24
Yep , your right I reckon...the world is going mad!!!!!
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Follow Up By: Willem - Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 22:27

Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 22:27
Ah .....Found it


Transportation
As mentioned earlier, the new law provides a defence for transporting liquor across a prescribed area, as long as you can prove that your final destination is outside the prescribed area. Under this defence the liquor must be in your control and must not be consumed whilst travelling in the prescribed area. This means the liquor must not be opened. It may be difficult for you to claim this defence if you have a half drunk bottle of wine even though the cap has been screwed back on or the wine was drunk outside the prescribed area.

I am not sure what the law states for main arterial roads...like the Tanami Road or Plenty Highway for instance

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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 22:36

Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 22:36
Yeah...thats Im saying about going to Birthday or Hugh george or anywhere else in the Western Macs. Your final destination is not outside of the prescribed area....or is it.....my final destination will be Alice??????? and is Birthday prescribed as its not on the list???
The law was to many ifs and buts....know one seems to understand it, yet people are getting busted.
Its just too hard!!!!!!

LOL
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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 22:39

Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 22:39
Bugger...Ill put my glasses on.....my typing was getting worse!
No its not the beer!
LOL
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Follow Up By: dedabato (SA) - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 01:07

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 01:07
Te world is Not going mad !!!!! - It's Gone !!!!!!
Regards
Steve






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Follow Up By: Member - John and Val W (ACT) - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 09:23

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 09:23
Willem's list makes frightening reading at first sight, BUT, if I'm reading the website right (www.facsia.gov.au/nter/legis_areas.htm ) in fact all the "NO"s following the listing of parks mean that the park is NOT a prescribed area, so the bans don't apply there.

Check it out for yourself, but if I'm right, only Kakadu, Uluru and Nitmuluk are prescribed national parks and there are unprescribed areas in each.

As Hairy has said though there are many areas not in parks where you can't stop for a drink - see the map on the above site.

Hope I'm right, or it could be a bad drought!

John
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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 10:06

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 10:06
Gday John,
Yes your right about them not being prescribed.
But the bit about travelling through the prescribed and not into are very unclear.
Also then there would be the problem of Grey nomads like my oldies stop at 6.00 every night, relax, and have a drink. Mum drinks Brandy and Dad Gin. They will need to take a bottle of each for every stop over because they will be required to tip it out before moving on.

Starts getting confusing hey?
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Reply By: olddigger - Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 22:56

Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 22:56
Oh, here we go again. Overkill.
THEY can't handle booze, so WE get punished.
I may be white, but I am an indigenous Australian, in that I was born here.
I am sick and tired of my rights being restricted to suit the social shortcomings of a minority group.
If THEY can't drink in moderation, that's THEIR problem, not mine.
Police should have better things to do than enforcing this rule against innocent travellers.
AnswerID: 343803

Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 23:26

Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 23:26
Gday,
This post wasnt started to try and sort out why the rules were bought in but rather warn people of them and maybe even make them a little clearer. I know what your saying...I live with it..but lets no go there.

Cheers
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FollowupID: 611641

Follow Up By: handy - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 07:11

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 07:11
in a way i am glad i left that area, no offence hairy. cheers
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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 10:09

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 10:09
So are we!! ( glad you left) Hahahahahahahahaha
LOL
Cheers
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Follow Up By: handy - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 10:18

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 10:18
when you leaving ???
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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 10:56

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 10:56
Going back to work on Thursday.
Next back xrays in four weeks,
Hopefully can start working around home then, so a monthish to get the house ready and put it on the market. Once sold..GONE!!!!
Cheers
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Follow Up By: timglobal - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 13:57

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 13:57
olddigger,
What a confused ad-hominem argument you make.
*You* are travelling in *their* part of *our* country, so respecting the law is part of the mutual respect that allows being *anyone* to able to travel through at all.
I realise the native title owners may not make the letters of the law and the rules may be curious to you, but blaming them for laws which happen to annoy you is deeply disrespectful to *everyone*.
If you cannot hold that respect, then you maybe you aren't the travelling type after all.
Tim
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FollowupID: 611732

Follow Up By: Member - Bill F (VIC) - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 21:50

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 21:50
HI Tim
I am everyone and "I" do not consider it to be deeply disrespectful to be against some idiotic laws that are passed to help protect our Society. There is a Big Australia out there and we in the big cities do not appreciate the problems of your part of our Society as we have the same problems with laws that are restricting our joys of travelling this great land like closing tracks in winter (you will get bogged) in summer (you will die of heat)

Ps. You may be able to help me answer this question.
Is a "native title owner" a person or a corporation

BillF
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Follow Up By: timglobal - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 22:33

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 22:33
Hi Bill,

I think you misunderstand.

I'm saying don't complain about those people the laws (claim) to protect "THEY can't handle booze, so WE get punished".

Where these laws apply, you as a "white" Australian are the minority.

One can reasonably complain about those who *made* those laws if they do not serve the purpose they were designed for, or if that purpose is not for the greater sense of common law (and order) in society.

If they do serve that reasonable purpose, as the highly localised anti-grog laws appear to against grog smuggling, then to argue otherwise marks you as selfish in wanting to have something that is not for the greater good of society, or specifically their little part of it that it impacts.

I'm afraid unless you have achieved omnipotency, then you aren't everyone, as you suggest.

For more but not exhaustive info on native title, look here Wiki Native Land Title

Cheers,

Tim
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 23:24

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 23:24
Genuine question.
Don't those alcohol laws treat everyone the same??
Meaning whites are as restricted as blacks when it comes to buying and drinking etc in the community areas that they apply??


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Follow Up By: timglobal - Tuesday, Jan 13, 2009 at 01:05

Tuesday, Jan 13, 2009 at 01:05
John,

Correct. This law applies to everyone in its jurisdiction.

Cheers,

Tim
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Reply By: Member - Barnray (NSW) - Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 23:42

Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 23:42
I would have thought that the final destination was home. Barnray
AnswerID: 343810

Reply By: Member - Lionel A (WA) - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 08:43

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 08:43
The restrictions are well thought out and do work.

In our small town we have two problem areas.
The Broncs and The Dark Side.

Booze is freely available and not in anyway restricted:
Brawls, sexual assaults, bashings, theft, arson and other crimes are generally an everyday occurrence.

There are numerous employment opportunities here in town and we rebuild their houses as fast as they can destroy them.

They have their own tax payer funded departments in town which handle employment, health, education, housing, counselling, even their own legal services but seem to frequent only one department.....Centrelink.

The point I'm trying to make is:
The communities where alchol is restricted should'nt be suffering the same problems...........lol.


Cheers......Lionel.
AnswerID: 343818

Follow Up By: x - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 13:49

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 13:49
"Booze is freely available and not in anyway restricted:
Brawls, sexual assaults, bashings, theft, arson and other crimes are generally an everyday occurrence."

Sounds very much like every bush camp that I have ever had.

And loving it.
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Follow Up By: Anthony (Vic) - Tuesday, Jan 13, 2009 at 13:55

Tuesday, Jan 13, 2009 at 13:55
Sounds like Melbourne :-)

- Brawls, sexual assaults, bashings, theft, arson and other crimes are generally an everyday occurrence

Maybe we could do with some local restrictions here as well
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Reply By: Willem - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 10:07

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 10:07
Ummmm....... Hairy.......

The West Mac's Nat Park is not a prescribed area according to that govt website. So where does your comment relate to?

Maybe give the relevant authority a ring and ask where we can get proper details of what is allowed and what is not. If West Mac's is not a Precsribed Area then you should be allowed to transport alcohol on the road. But you are traversing the Golden Mile, Imaparja Lands and Jay Creek Communities so my understanding is that you cannot transport an opened bottle(cask) of plonk through those areas.

As usual the Law is an Ass


Cheers
AnswerID: 343837

Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 10:37

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 10:37
Gday Willem,
What I want to do is try and find as many scenarios as possible and write a letter to find out the rules. At the moment there seems to be too many grey areas that no one can work out.
When I write the letter I know Ill get a set of rules like the sign on the side of the road, but it is still unclear. I want to write a letter and say What if I go from.............

If all aboriginal land in the Centre now comes under the "prescribed" rules and some parks are being handed back to aboriginal ownership, although they are not named on the Parks
list ,wouldnt they still be classified as prescribed under Aboriginal land?

And what about the people who spend a week doing the Western Macs......Do the grey nomads have to tip out there bottle of brandy to move from Ormiston George to Glen Helen
( 30km)????

I didnt finish a bottle of rum out at Glen Helen on the weekend.
By law I should have tipped it out and not bought it home. Makes for a bloody expensive weekend though.

And when they say opened...do they only mean where you can reach it or is it alright in the back in the fridge? Im really no sure what they are trying to acheive.

Ill see how many other what ifs people come up with and Ill get some answers in writting.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - George (WA) - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 17:31

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 17:31
Hi Willem, put a pad lock on your fridge when travelling trough or camping in prescribed areas. When you get pulled over by the "Authority" tell them you have lost the key. What can they do ? Cheers
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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 17:52

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 17:52
Gday George,
What can they do?
Heres an example....If a contractor gets pulled over ( with locked toolboxes all over his truck) they are made to open them.....if they refuse thet can be charged with numerous offences.
If they say they cant open them the cops can cut the lock themselves or be made to stay there until someone comes out with bolt cutters......then if they're caught...well.....with holding evidence ....failing to co-operate.....giving faulse information...and so on.

Better to find out what the rules are I reckon.....besides Willem would just neck his grog the minute he saw them.
Ever seen that man neck a can...LOL
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Reply By: nickoff - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:58

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:58
Ok, don't tip out anything left. Make sure you have nothing left to tip out. Buy your alcohol in "Airline" style miniatures for spirits, Single serve bottles for wine, and stubbies/cans for beer.

Therefore anything left will be "unopened".

more expensive to buy, but cheaper in the long run.
AnswerID: 343854

Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 12:18

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 12:18
True.
But you still need to prove your travelling through the prescribed area not just into it, and if the parks in the Western macs are under Aboriginal ownership that would mean your not travelling through but into which means you cant open it there either???
see how confusing it gets?

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Tuesday, Jan 13, 2009 at 10:39

Tuesday, Jan 13, 2009 at 10:39
"expensive to buy"
Yeah mate.... the equivalent of $140 a bottle , makes for a bloody expensive weekend when you throw food and fuel on top.
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FollowupID: 611945

Reply By: Hairy (NT) - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 14:50

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 14:50
I have rung FaHCSIA, ( the mob who make the rules)
The first person I spoke to said Ill put you through to someone in that department who could answer my questions ( program manager), that persons respose to my first question was "good question".
I was then given the email address of the person who will be able to answer my questions (section manager).
I have emailed the section manager who has now forwarded on my questions to the operations centre to see if they can answer them!!!!!!
Hahahahahahaha
If they dont understand their own bloody rules how the hell is the average person supose to try to do the right thing????
Ill let you know the out come if I get one.

Cheers
AnswerID: 343881

Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 14:52

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 14:52
I forgot to say.......
Ive also emailed the NT Police the same questions who must know the answers as they are the ones already handing out the fines....
Ill post the response.
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Follow Up By: Willem - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 20:05

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 20:05
Yer doing a sterling job there, young Hairy

Where can we read about those incidents where people have been caught? Or is it hearsay?

BTW I don't recall sculling any beers in your presence?...LOL




Cheers
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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 23:48

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 23:48
Gday Willem,
Yes hearsay......But true.
Cant remember.....maybe you should stop drinking...hahahaha

No ....Willem isnt that bad...Im joking!
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Reply By: Member - Tony B (Malanda FNQ) - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 16:02

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 16:02
How to solve problem - Don,t Drink alcohol. It works for me. Cheers Tony
AnswerID: 343893

Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 16:06

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 16:06
True.....
Or ban all 4wds and make everyone move to the cities?
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FollowupID: 611757

Follow Up By: Member - Tony B (Malanda FNQ) - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 16:19

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 16:19
Hairy. Sorry mate the comparrison between the 4x4 issue and Alchohol problems is streets apart. But hey if you like a drink thats fine with me go for it. I am just saying it is really not to not carry a drink to some places that have trouble with it. With the laws the way they are it is a lot easier not to carry it and surely people can go without for a while....if you can not....well you might have to think where it is taking you. Regards Tony
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Follow Up By: Member - Tony B (Malanda FNQ) - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 16:21

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 16:21
Woops - NOT HARD TO NOT
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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 16:42

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 16:42
yes your right...it is going to be easier not take any.
But I think it will be a sad day when rather to fix a problem the alternative will be prohibition, and that's where we are heading.
People have a right not to drink, like others have a right to make their own mind up.

Again I didn't post this to debate weather or not the law should be there or not, but rather point it out, and possibly
even find out what the rules are so innocent people don't get caught out.

Cheers
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FollowupID: 611766

Reply By: Richard W (NSW) - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 19:47

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 19:47
Hairy,

Thanks for the heads up.
I'll be travelling with a group into the Musgarve Ranges in May and understand the area dry. Thence to Yallara, Kings Canyon, Alice via te Merrinee Loop. looks like a bit more homework to be done.
AnswerID: 343951

Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 19:58

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 19:58
Im waiting for something in writting to clarify a few things, so hopefully I can post something soon that comes from the top.
Myself and other have advised people on the rules recently and Im starting to think the info we gave wasnt 100% correct.
Hopefully I can clear it up for all involved...

Cheers
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