Un Australian Australia Day ?

Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 20:23
ThreadID: 65501 Views:4619 Replies:28 FollowUps:63
This Thread has been Archived
I am just wondering what people think of the latest trends of Australia Day celebrations?

I drove into Brisbane on A day and saw a huge number of cars and 4WDs with Australian flags on them and people wearing flag clothing.

Watching the news that night there was all manner of jingoistic flag waving, flag wearing, over the top nationalistic behaviour.

While I have no real problem with this I do have to ask myself "Is this Australian behaviour?"

Many many many years ago when I was young any such display of national pride was kept for winning wars or a visit from the Queen.

Foreigners or worse crass Americans waved flags and showed emotions Australians just went about having a day off, mowing the lawn, or going to the beach with the kids.

I would love to know your memories of Australia days past and your opinions on over the top displays of nationalism?
Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: Member - Effie C (NT) - Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 20:32

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 20:32
The country is growing up and it is now OK to show a bit of national spirit and actually celebrate the day. If we stayed the way it was in the past then the country would not evolve and we would be a sour old lot then :)))
Live One Day at a Time for Tomorrow May Never Come.
Landcruiser 200 Series Altitude, Rav4

Lifetime Member
My Profile  Send Message

AnswerID: 346427

Follow Up By: D200Dug- Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 20:34

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 20:34
Are we growing up and developing an Australian culture or just copying American trends?

To me flag waving and fireworks always seem more 4th of July than Australia day.
0
FollowupID: 614418

Follow Up By: robak (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 13:12

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 13:12
I 'm with you D200dug. It really irritates me when a bunch of boozed up idiots wear our national flag as a cape, and then they sit it when having a beer at a rock concert.

Their national "pride" is only as big as their blood alcohol volume.
0
FollowupID: 614553

Reply By: andson - Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 20:51

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 20:51
i cannot fathom the fact that Australians are actually becoming patriotic is something anyone could call Un Australian. Yes i don't want to see the Australian way of life mimic trends and behaviors of the USA but i think it is great for Australians to actually start to show pride in there country, many great men and women have lost the lives saving this country show of the flag, I hope to one day be driving around my neighborhood and see people with the Australian flag flying proudly out the front of there homes, bring on patriotic behaviors lets not just fly the flag because its fashionable.

SVD
AnswerID: 346434

Follow Up By: D200Dug- Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 20:58

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 20:58
I am not questioning our patriotism only the way it is displayed.

Australians have always been proud of Australia, just in my memory they did not go over the top in displaying it.

Are overt displays of national pride a traditional Australian thing or is this a new thing ?
0
FollowupID: 614431

Reply By: Robin Miller - Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 20:57

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 20:57
I think they are probobly great D200Dug , but on reflection I can't remember not going away on a bush trip on Australia day and we are more or less by ourselves and tend to miss out on what normal society is doing.
Robin Miller

Member
My Profile  Send Message

AnswerID: 346435

Reply By: Member - Nick (TAS) - Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 20:58

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 20:58
I reacon its awsome to display the Australian flag and show how proud you are to be Australian.
AnswerID: 346436

Follow Up By: D200Dug- Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:00

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:00
That is not the question :-)

The question is "Is it an Australian thing to do?"
0
FollowupID: 614432

Reply By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:02

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:02
I thought about buying a flag and attaching it to an aerial or my sand flag pole etc on Oz Day. But then I thought...... "stuff it!!! the damn flags are made in bloody taiwan and sold by the $2- shops with profits going o/seas"...... so I didn't buy one!!!

Nothing wrong with being patriotic IMHO, but I don't like to see it get to the stage like you see (or "used" to see) at the soccer games when adventist played united or something like that; it always ended up in a damn great brawl cos the 2 groups of peanuts hated the bejeezus out of each other....... bloody ratbags.
AnswerID: 346437

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:03

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:03
correction maybe!?.....I said adventist, but I think they were actually called "juventist" or something like that.... even the teams' names conjured-up the concept of waring factions.....
0
FollowupID: 614433

Follow Up By: D200Dug- Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:13

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:13
This was what I was getting at,

(A) the marketing of "Australian Pride" as a product for profit and

(B) the dangers of unbridled nationalism ( As seen in the race riots in Sydney a few years ago )

In the 21st century should we be concentrating on building a world community rather than developing nationalism ?

These are questions not a statement, I am just curious how others feel .
0
FollowupID: 614435

Follow Up By: Member - Footloose - Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:21

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:21
"In the 21st century should we be concentrating on building a world community rather than developing nationalism ? "

In a perfect world, of course we should.

But I'm afraid it's the same old same old.
"No!! We're not there yet!"

(The worst thing about getting old is tha you start to realize your parents were right about so many things that you dismissed out of hand when younger.)
0
FollowupID: 614436

Follow Up By: D200Dug- Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:25

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:25
(The worst thing about getting old is tha you start to realize your parents were right about so many things that you dismissed out of hand when younger.)

Oh that hurts!!!! :-) Especially when you hear your own kids say the same thing to you. God I am getting OLD :-(
0
FollowupID: 614437

Follow Up By: Member - Footloose - Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:29

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:29
It gets worse !
It isn't just being right about something, but it happens so often that you don't even bother with the "I told you so."
0
FollowupID: 614441

Follow Up By: Member - Crazy Dog (QLD) - Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 23:06

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 23:06
Gotta agree wiv ya Roachie - to a degree... Like you I drive an OVERSEAS vehicle, most of our clothing etc dadadada - and ya could go on for ages about wot comes from where so I no longa worry about it. I fly the Aussie flag as often as I can and I really could not be bothered where it came from because our world is so into trading with each other and businesses into the profit thing that we would never do anything or buy anything if all we were to be full on BuY Australian... Not the way I would like it but the way it is...

If given the choice and I COULD AFFORD it I would always but Aussie...

Grrr!!!
0
FollowupID: 614464

Reply By: Member - Footloose - Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:14

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:14
Gangs of young thugs running riot in Manly and Burleigh doesn't exactly do it for me..imagine the image that others who don't live here would get from the media.

Go anywhere in the world and you'll find an obnoxiously drunk Aussie spreading the bull about how great things are here, and how dreadful they are there (possibly true, but...how many of us or our ancestors come from "there"?)

With or without the displays of Ozzie Day "pride", might I suggest that both groups of young people do this country's image around the world very little good at all.

To me, Australia Day is a day to be proud of our country and it's achievements. A day to perhaps remember those who came before, and those people and national characteristics that make this the best place in the world to live.

Australian flags ...why not ? Something to be QUIETLY proud of.

A day to get drunk, run riot and destroy property and ruin other Australia Day celebrations?
Now that's just plain wrong and very un Australian !
AnswerID: 346443

Reply By: Magik Kar-Pet Riders - Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:19

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:19
I'd much rather look at an Australian flag and take pride in what it represents than to turn on the "telly" and watch some of the absolute overseas rubbish that it offers in the name of entertainment. Crime, murder, rape, assault and all the so called "other world" interventions leave me somewhat cold as a viewing pleasure.

Bring on days in the bush distant from the turmoils of the modern world. The wildlife, fauna and landscapes tend to conjure far more pleasure for this little black duck.

My penny's worth, anyway.

Aussie, Aussie, Oi, Oi, Oi.......

Karen & Pete
Magik Kar-Pet Riders

Lifetime Member
My Profile  Send Message

AnswerID: 346445

Reply By: Member - Robert G (WA) - Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:24

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:24
Agree with most of what footloose said, but I might add that there are plenty of young people from lots of other countries that get drunk and make arses of themselves too, its not something reserved for aussies to do.

I bought a flag and stuck it on my car for first time this year. I here what your saying but I certainly don't consider it unaustralian. Its the first year I have seen it so widely displayed though.
AnswerID: 346448

Follow Up By: D200Dug- Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:27

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:27
Its the first year I have seen it so widely displayed though.

=====================================

Same here, so I am just thinking out loud really.
0
FollowupID: 614439

Follow Up By: D200Dug- Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:28

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:28
I think also the number of flag bearing cars that were either speeding or behaving like idiots also pinged me off.
0
FollowupID: 614440

Follow Up By: get outmore - Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:35

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:35
pretty sure the sunday times or some newspapper was giving the flags away
and as for the young people flying them
- never forget that no one under about 35 was born under the australian flag so of course it is a fairly new thing
0
FollowupID: 614442

Follow Up By: Member - Footloose - Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:36

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:36
Of course other nationalities behave badly also. But it's just that we seem to be much better at doing it everywhere around the globe :))
Please note that I am ignoring all the great stuff that Australians ALSO do everywhere around the globe, everything from charities to peacekeeping etc.

These are some of the people we should hold up as our role models, not some trying to thump each other into hospital for a great deal of money.
0
FollowupID: 614443

Reply By: Kroozer - Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:36

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:36
Nothing makes me more happy then to see the Southern Cross mate, love it how all the young blokes have them as tattoos now, my car even has permanent stickers of the Southern Cross on it. Nothing Un Australian about showing Aussie Pride. Cant believe you would have that opinion really. Its the best place on Earth to live so we celebrate it. Enough said really.
AnswerID: 346451

Follow Up By: D200Dug- Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:58

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:58
I have no problem with pride and I agree we have probably the best country in the world. I just wonder about the changes in the way we show our pride. I remember a time when pride was a quiet stoicism, not something for public display.

We were equally proud of our country but did not need to make a great song and dance about it.

Would you say the young person driving about in a loud V8 ute dressed in the flag and waving a flag has the same national pride as the diggers who just went off to war to defend Australia ?

Again This is a discussion, I am not questioning our pride just the method of displaying it.
0
FollowupID: 614447

Reply By: Best Off Road - Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:45

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:45
I'm afraid I'll never respect the Flag whilst it contains reference to another Nation. We are Ausrailains, we are not a British Colony.

And before some of you get on your high horse and tell me our lads died under that flag....The Official Flag during WW2 was the Red Ensign.

Jim.

AnswerID: 346454

Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 22:58

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 22:58
Baaahaaahaaahaaa .....

The Union Jack is a part of history - what little white australia has ...

If another nations flag on the australian flag was a sign of subservience ... it would be the stars and stripes .....
0
FollowupID: 614460

Reply By: Richard Kovac - Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:54

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:54
I know what you mean



Cheers

Richard
AnswerID: 346456

Follow Up By: Canyon-ero - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 11:58

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 11:58
Absolutely love it - could not agree more.
0
FollowupID: 614534

Follow Up By: Matt Watson - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 17:42

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 17:42
Thats great, and spot on. I suspect a majority of the kids waving the flag are just it because its currently a pretty trendy thing to do. I'm not really a bit fan of blind patriotism.
0
FollowupID: 614614

Reply By: Rossco td105 - Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:58

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 21:58
G'day,

The wife and I were discussing on the way home the other day the increase in violence on Australia Day (and in general unfortunately). Seems like five years ago there was the odd report of violence on the day, everyone was much more easy going! On our way home on the 27th, listening to the radio there was a long list of attacks, stabbings/bashings etc... Seems very UN-Australian to us. I guess the times are changing...

Hoping we can all get along for the sake of this great country?

Ross and Jo.
AnswerID: 346457

Reply By: Member - DAZA (QLD) - Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 22:18

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 22:18
Hi All

I think that some Home Grown Aussies, are worried about loosing
our Identity, it has been slowly eroded over the years, and this is
their way of showing that we are still proud to be a True Aussie,
the Rat Bag element that want to carry on and copy the Yanks
will get bored after a while, but the sincere ones will do it with
pride, we had our Flag raised out the front of our house as we do
each year, we even had one of our neighbours who is a Naturalised
Aussie from Poland with his Flag, he and his wife are very proud
to be Aussies.

Cheers
Daza
AnswerID: 346461

Reply By: Member - Matt H (SA) - Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 22:20

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 22:20
Hi All,

Well, I think most days are AUSTRALIA DAY. Maybe it's because I proudly wear the uniform of a particular element of the ADF.

As ADF members, we never forget (for the most part) that we not only represent our great country, but are willing to defend it if the need be.

What irks me, is when people in this country and expect everything, and don't appreciate what's being done for them. Not all mind you, but some...............

Think Australian, and you'll be Australian!

Matt
AnswerID: 346463

Follow Up By: D200Dug- Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 22:27

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 22:27
I have done my 7 years service as well including 3 OS operations.

I have been a volunteer in either SES or coastguard for the last 25 years and I don't wave a flag on Australia day.

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=aOWrpMvPrjc&feature=channel

0
FollowupID: 614454

Follow Up By: Member - Matt H (SA) - Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 22:46

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 22:46
D200Dug,

And your point is?
0
FollowupID: 614458

Follow Up By: D200Dug- Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 22:57

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 22:57
Do I need to have a point ?

I am proud of my service record, I was taught that serving my country was the right thing to do.

My family never made a show of anything, they just did things quietly and without a fuss.

Just the amount of flag waving that has started recently interests me.
0
FollowupID: 614459

Follow Up By: GregF - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 11:22

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 11:22
Hi Matt H.
Keep up the Good Work. I Reckon Hairy would back me up, on that one.
Regards
Greg
0
FollowupID: 614521

Follow Up By: Member - Matt H (SA) - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 18:08

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 18:08
D200Dug,

I actually agree with you to an extent. Our guys rarely make a fuss about things, similiar to your generation (I'm assuming that with 3 OS tours that you were probably in SE Asia somewhere?).

In fact, the vast majority of us prefer not to make a fuss - the exception would Anzac Day though! :-)

I wholeheartedly agrree with other people's comments about the Australian flag NOT being a form of apparel.

That said, at least patriotism is alive amoung the younger generation! Just mabe not for the exact same reasons as the older generation.

Matt



0
FollowupID: 614622

Reply By: Member - Stuart W (NSW) - Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 22:35

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 22:35
I agree with Jim to an extent. Get rid of that union jack. Saying that though while it's on the flag I'll respect it. In the scouts and the navy cadets I was taught to revere the flag,to fold it properly at a flag ceremony and not to let it touch the ground.I'm in my early forties and it really irks me to see people wearing the flag like a superman cape.
Stuart
AnswerID: 346467

Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 23:02

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 23:02
Yes it is meant to be respected .... not an item of clothing .... I think thats the point D200Dug is making.
0
FollowupID: 614462

Reply By: OzTroopy - Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 22:47

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 22:47
D200Dug posted:
I have no problem with pride and I agree we have probably the best country in the world. I just wonder about the changes in the way we show our pride. I remember a time when pride was a quiet stoicism, not something for public display.



Yep that about somes it up ... and thats one of the things that earnt us our " aussie " reputation.

Fast becoming "new chums" today, I think .......
AnswerID: 346470

Follow Up By: D200Dug- Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 22:58

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 22:58
No worries mate :-)
0
FollowupID: 614461

Follow Up By: Member - Stuart W (NSW) - Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 23:03

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 23:03
I'm right with you.I love Australia,I'll never deny it so I don't have to wear it
0
FollowupID: 614463

Reply By: D200Dug- Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 23:06

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 23:06
I once read a book by on the Korean war.

In the thick of the North Korean onslaught an American battalion was stationed defending an ocean fishing village.

Their commander said "On our left we had the ocean, on our right we had Australians. It was comforting to know that no matter what happened during the night, they would both still be there in the morning"

That is the kind of Aussie determination that I take pride in.
AnswerID: 346476

Follow Up By: Member - Jeff H (QLD) - Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 23:41

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 23:41
Mate,
I should have kept my nose clean on this one BUT....
1. I just love what our athletes do.. Cathy F in particular.
But they have No Right to wrap their bodies in our flag.
2. An Aussie flag stencilled on a traveller's backpack is fine.
3.The Aussie flag on a pole in front of your dwelling is magic - so long as it is raised after sunrise and lowered by sunset.
4. Flags on cars on Aust. Day? That's ok, (at a pinch).
Other than that I can see it being divisive - and we're better than that, (or are we?)

So tell me people, am I a Shrinking Violet?
Jeff.
0
FollowupID: 614474

Reply By: Member - Willie , Sydney. - Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 23:31

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 23:31
“ Pariotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel “ Samuel Johnson .

“ Nationalism is an infantile disease, the measles of mankind “ Albert Einstein .


Many people now living in Australia are survivors of nationalism and racism in Europe, Asia and Africa.

Politicians whipped up support for both world wars by using nationalism as a tool to blind the masses to their greed and lust for power. MW

Nationalism – racism on a grand scale.

Nationalism and rationalism are mutually exclusive terms.

Nationalism is that warm feeling you get when you are holding the moral high ground , and kicking the crap out of someone.

I am proud to be Australian, but I am sceptical of politicians motives in promoting nationalism.

Willie.
AnswerID: 346482

Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 00:36

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 00:36
Willie

Very well said

Regards

Richard
0
FollowupID: 614483

Follow Up By: V64Runner - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 01:42

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 01:42
Well said I couldnt agree with you more. I think you have hit the nail on the head. I get the impression that the buffoons in Canberra are trying to brainwash us.
0
FollowupID: 614510

Follow Up By: Matt Watson - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 17:47

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 17:47
You've summed up my feelings on the matter much better than I could.
0
FollowupID: 614616

Reply By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 00:00

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 00:00
I consider myself a true Blue Aussie, well I was born here although my Mother was born in London, anyhow I notice some of you knocking the Americans, if you researched your history you would learn that many fine young American men in their early twenties left an airbase just 50Klm from where I live, every night they would leave to bomb Japanese installations on up to 17 hour return flights , many of then never returned , I might add that some Aussies flew with them too , but not long after the operations started the bombs ceased to fall on Australian soil , Many Mothers lost their Sons both Aussies and Yanks and hell I thank them all.

.
still going strong with 836,179 K's

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

AnswerID: 346489

Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 00:06

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 00:06
Doug,

Yes, some stuck up snot noses forget the debt we owe the Yanks. Like it or lump it.

0
FollowupID: 614480

Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 12:21

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 12:21
G'Day Doug T ...

ooops ... are we still allowed to say g'day here or is that just govt depts ???... maybe - Hi guys and gals is more politically correct today. ( gently trying to get a point across here - not flaming you ... )

Knocking the american individual ???? ... or knocking the constant american barrage on this countries way of life and the subsequent adoption of its ( IMO and others apparently ) lesser values and attitudes.

In regards to history ... well, australia was just a big aircraft carrier - used as a staging post for the pay back assault on the japanese forces after pearl harbour and the final target ... tokyo. There was nobody coming to australias' aid at that time ... thats why there was the "brisbane line".

The respectful rememberance of those fallen foreign service personell based here at the time ... is something I totally agree with however ... just as european locations honour ours - that were passing through on the way to germany or positions to facilitate that ... It is the decent and therefore - by past standards - very australian thing to do..

Living the life of "the simpsons" for real ... or bowing in the direction of the whitehouse whilst chewing a sesame seed bun and working out who can be held responsible for the stupidity of your own actions ... as an increasing number seem to be doing ... is not respectful rememberance of those lost lives.



Additionally ... this country owes NO debt to the U.S. - thats been paid back many times over ... even in blood.

Anybody believing this country still owes a debt has obviously sat in front of the " Thank You, Mr Hooker " TV ad for too long and let homage to the U.S. become a way of life.
0
FollowupID: 614538

Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 12:41

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 12:41
No country comes to anybody's aid during a conflict unless it serves their purposes. Thank God we were'nt relying on the Poms despite what we'd done both then and during the previous unpleasantness.

As to "thats been paid back many times over" - when ? We have never done anything for/with them that even remotely approaches it.





0
FollowupID: 614543

Follow Up By: Off-track - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 16:40

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 16:40
quote - As to "thats been paid back many times over" - when ? We have never done anything for/with them that even remotely approaches it.

Korea
Vietnam
Iraq 1
Iraq 2
Afghanistan
0
FollowupID: 614595

Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 16:44

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 16:44
Off-track,

Are you seriously comparing our role in those minor skirmishes to WW2 ???

0
FollowupID: 614599

Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 17:40

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 17:40
Off-track
Well named because your so far off track it's not funny, The 5 locations you named have nothing to with any paybacks , My opinion of a payback would be if the mainland USA were to be threatened ...as ours was , and we sent troops to USA to help repel , then and only then that would be a well deserved payback ....wake up to yourself .

.
still going strong with 836,179 K's

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 614613

Follow Up By: Off-track - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 18:29

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 18:29
Doug T

No need to be a toss.

The US were only interested in Oz as a forward operating base and staging area. Now they have Guam, Kwajalein, Palau, Diego Garcia etc for that purpose. It had buggerall to do with defending us but rather as a strategic point to attack/revenge Japan. It was almost all about their interests.

We were in WWII (and WWI for that matter) from the VERY start, where were the US???

The wars and conflicts that I listed were no small matter and had everything to do with payback. (Also insert Pine Gap, H. E. Holt Naval Comms Base, Narungar)
0
FollowupID: 614630

Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 18:44

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 18:44
Off-track
Yeh ok sorry , but do know the amount of stuff USA sent to England before Pearl Harbour was hit , just enormous amounts of equipment, UK would have fell without it , there was no doubt about that,
A total of $50.1 billion (equivalent to nearly $700 billion at 2007 prices) worth of supplies were shipped: $31.4 billion to Britain, $11.3 billion to the Soviet Union, $3.2 billion to France and $1.6 billion to China. Reverse Lend Lease comprised services (like rent on air bases) that went to the U.S. It totaled $7.8 billion, of which $6.8 billion came from the British and the Commonwealth. Apart from that, there were no repayments of supplies that arrived before the termination date, the terms of the agreement providing for their return or destruction. (Supplies after that date were sold to Britain at a discount, for £1,075 million, using long-term loans from the U.S.) Canada operated a similar program that sent $4.7 billion in supplies to Britain and Soviet Union.

still going strong with 836,179 K's

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 614633

Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 18:51

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 18:51
"The wars and conflicts that I listed were no small matter and had everything to do with payback"

Absolute crap.
0
FollowupID: 614636

Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 20:03

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 20:03
Yes .... not a good comparison Off-track ... ( wink )

Australians died in those locations at the request of america .... No different to the call of england in WWI.

Americans died in or near australia during WW2 furthering their own countries interests ... of course that doesnt diminish the value of the lost lives or the value of their presence while they were here - on their travels northward.


The history of WW2 financials is certainly getting off topic ... but just to keep the situation balanced .......

(quote) ....American banks and businesses continued to support the fascist regimes of Europe legally up until the day Germany declared war on America and the activities were stopped under the Trading with the Enemy Act. Despite this, some companies and individuals still maintained a business relationship with the Third Reich. Ford and GM supplied European fascists with trucks and equipment as well as investing money in I.G. Farben plants. Standard Oil supplied the fascists with fuel. US Steel and Alcoa supplied them with critically needed metals. American banks gave them billion's of dollars worth of loans.

The following is excerpted from a report printed by the United States Senate Committee on the Judiciary in 1974:

The activities of General Motors, Ford and Chrysler prior to and during World War II... / .... As a result, these firms retained the economic and political power to affect the shape of governmental relations both within and between these nations in a manner which maximized corporate global profits... / ... The substantial contribution of these firms to the American war effort in terms of tanks, aircraft components, and other military equipment is widely acknowledged.Less well known are the simultaneous contributions of their foreign subsidiaries to the Axis Powers. In sum, they maximized profits by supplying both sides with the materiel needed to conduct the war.

During the 1920's and 1930's, the Big Three automakers undertook an extensive program of multinational expansion... / ... In Germany, for example, General Motors and Ford became an integral part of the Nazi war efforts. GM's plants in Germany built thousands of bomber and jet fighter propulsion systems for the Luftwaffe at the same time that its American plants produced aircraft engines for the U.S. Army Air Corps........... ( unquote)

Source

What was that recent claim in reference to US federal grants to bail out the US auto industry .... something along the lines of ...

" they helped us win the war ... we should help them " ... pffffft

Any govt that allows those goings on ... especially under those conditions - is owed nothing by anybody.
0
FollowupID: 614651

Follow Up By: Off-track - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 20:35

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 20:35
Crap? How so Gramps?

Some interesting stuff there Doug btw.
0
FollowupID: 614660

Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 21:40

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 21:40
Oh dear, where do I start ??

"thats why there was the "brisbane line". " - myth, legend, lie. Thouight up by a scumbag politician, Eddie Ward, with no credible evidence whatsoever. Has been used to stir up emotions against Aust Govts, Winston Churchill, Douglas MacArthur, etc etc depending on who you wanted to besmirch. Front up with some credible evidence, not a couiple of "mysterious" tank traps in Woop Woop or "my old man said" (in between drinking bouts).

Korea - a UN sanctioned action (UN Resolution 84). Of course the US was involved, China and Russia supported ( incited?? ) the other side. So were at least 21 other Western and Asian nations. We lost 340 servicemen/women in that conflict as part of our duty to the UN.

Vietnam - We lost 521 servicemen/women. You can have that one.

Iraq1 - No such conflict. Or did you mean the Gulf War? We did'nt lose anyone in that conflict. A United Nations-authorized military conflict between Iraq and a coalition force from 34 nations commissioned with expelling Iraqi forces from Kuwait after Iraq's occupation and annexation of Kuwait. Fulfilling our duty to the UN again.

Iraq2 - Ongoing. You can have that one.

Afghanistan - Ongoing. Do you seriously question our motives for being there?

So that leaves you with Vietnam and Iraq2. Both of which could be argued, at the time, as being in our interests.

"We were in WWII (and WWI for that matter) from the VERY start, where were the US???" - they were doing exactly what you would have them do, staying out of conflicts. So in your eyes they're damned if they do and damned if they don't - hypocrite !

If the US had decided to just look after their own territories in WW2, this country would have been stuffed because no one else had the ability or the will to do anything to help us and we definitely would'nt have lasted 12 months on our own. If they did'nt enter WW1 the map of Europe would be a lot different to today.

"During the 1920's and 1930's, the Big Three automakers undertook an extensive program of multinational expansion... / ... In Germany, for example, General Motors and Ford became an integral part of the Nazi war efforts. GM's plants in Germany built thousands of bomber and jet fighter propulsion systems for the Luftwaffe at the same time that its American plants produced aircraft engines for the U.S. Army Air Corps..........."

Why not? They were'nt at war with them at the time. Have you bothered to check the dealings of other nations at the time or is this just a US-bashing exercise? Oooops, sorry, silly question :))

You two take the cake. If you were in a burning house and a thief saved your life then stole your wallet. would you consider you owed him a debt? I think your answer to that will show just what sort of character you both possess.

0
FollowupID: 614670

Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 21:50

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 21:50
Al
Good one, you have said all That I would have said, thanks, so I'll not waste anymore of time here debating the issue with these two, I got better things to do,

See ya Mate

.
still going strong with 836,179 K's

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 614673

Follow Up By: Off-track - Friday, Jan 30, 2009 at 00:23

Friday, Jan 30, 2009 at 00:23
I will give you Korea.

Iraq 1 and Iraq 2 are commonly used terms, but I digress. Do I seriously need to mention oil as a driving force for either?

Afghanistan. Do you seriously not question that in this conflict (as in pretty much all others) there are ulterior US motives? Regardless of UN sanctioning this has been a strongly US pushed conflict after 911.

WWI & WWII. How would the US be damned if they were to help out another likeminded country??? How the hell do you sit there and call me a hypocrite? Great response, so I’ll have that one.

There is no doubt that the US were the main deterrent and reason why Japan did not invade/take Australia (if they intended to do so), I do not argue that one bit and I thank them for it, but to say that the prime reason they had personnel and hardware based here was just for our protection is drawing a long bow. They did not go and put bodies on the line to protect the Brits/France til after Pearl and indeed after Nazi Germany declared war on the US so what makes you think they decided to immediately come to our aid? Do you think just maybe it had something to do with avenging Pearl Harbour? (And justifiably so, I should add).

Do you think that just maybe Australia was an ideal strategic and logistic place to operate from? The Japanese were advancing all over the Pacific and of course down to Australia but naval and carrier warfare whilst sometimes effective was not the panacea to defeating advancing Japanese forces. We were the only friendly, likeminded, safe country in the region with the ability to stage long range and enduring operations from with ease and with adequate and secure resupply.

As a footnote there is also the case that Japan did not ever want to invade Australia, as they did not have sufficient resources to do so, but attacked us to cut off supply and communication lines with US forces who were the only real threat to their main goal of increasing Japanese territories in the Pacific.

Why do you feel that our ‘debt’ to the US can only be payed in the equal weight of blood that their own shed in the ‘defence’ of Australia? I don’t think we have a debt at all, just as mates don’t hold debts to each other. Your debt-analogy is, well, you work it out…
0
FollowupID: 614702

Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Friday, Jan 30, 2009 at 01:26

Friday, Jan 30, 2009 at 01:26
"Iraq 1 and Iraq 2 are commonly used terms, but I digress. Do I seriously need to mention oil as a driving force for either? "

Only by those with no idea of the facts and differences. You intimated that the Gulf War was part of our payback after first denying there was any debt to pay back !!!!!!!!! Of course oil was involved. The UN went through it's processes to remove Iraqi forces from Kuwait and failed. It had to revert to a military option. The UN made that decision. The great oil conspiracy theory is just that.

Afghanistan. So what if the US has ulterior motives. I don't blame them after 911. I suppose you and your genius mate believe that it was all a CIA plot of some sort.

WW! & WW2. One minute you're blaming the US for 5 minor conflicts that you proposed as some sort of payback for a debt you don't think we owe (here we go again) then you're criticizing them for not entering the two MAJOR conflicts of the last century early enough. No, you're not having that one.

"but to say that the prime reason they had personnel and hardware based here was just for our protection is drawing a long bow"

Show me where I said that? Of course the Yanks helped us. It suited their purposes as well.

"They did not go and put bodies on the line to protect the Brits/France til after Pearl and indeed after Nazi Germany declared war on the US so what makes you think they decided to immediately come to our aid?"

Why would they get involved before they had to ? Where did I say "they decided to immediately come to our aid" ?

Of course Australia was ideal strategically and logistically, did I say it was'nt. Does that lessen the fact they saved our bacon ?

Of course Japan realized invading Australia was problematical but cutting us off from our Allies and denying the US a safe base to operate from was definitely a key point in their strategy.

If you don't think there is a debt at all, why did you propose the 5 MINOR conflicts as some sort of payback ( that you don;t believe we owe ). Are you having a bet each way or just happy to jump on the bandwagon that blames the US for everything.

If you don't understand the analogy that also indicates your character.

0
FollowupID: 614707

Follow Up By: Off-track - Friday, Jan 30, 2009 at 02:05

Friday, Jan 30, 2009 at 02:05
Gramps, your character here is plain argumentative, tangential and you cannot be told.

You had better tell the CDF that he is not to use the term Iraq1 and Iraq2 anymore, because you dont think he's in the know.

That has really done it for me with you so I am finished with being brought down to that level of debate.

Say what you will...
0
FollowupID: 614711

Follow Up By: Off-track - Friday, Jan 30, 2009 at 03:17

Friday, Jan 30, 2009 at 03:17
No on second thoughts stuff it, you are probably that simple that you will need it pointed out to you, AGAIN.


quote "Iraq1.Only by those with no idea of the facts and differences." - See above. Great objective response btw. I might even know more than you think ;-).

quote "You intimated that the Gulf War was part of our payback after first denying there was any debt to pay back !!!!!!!!!" ---Justifying payback/debt for those that believe their should be some - I dont. Whatever though, you wont understand and will deflect as usual.

quote "Of course oil was involved. The UN went through it's processes to remove Iraqi forces from Kuwait and failed. It had to revert to a military option. The UN made that decision. The great oil conspiracy theory is just that." - Talk about mixing yourself up. Was it oil, or not? Conspiracy? Never mentioned it but look the definition up anyway to refresh. So the UNSC just makes these decision without any pressure or lobbying from member countries. Naive. Wonder why we havent been to many other nations in turmoil/revolt/invasion/genocide et al.

quote "Afghanistan. So what if the US has ulterior motives. I don't blame them after 911. I suppose you and your genius mate believe that it was all a CIA plot of some sort." - Clutch those straws big boy.

quote "WW! & WW2. One minute you're blaming the US for 5 minor conflicts that you proposed as some sort of payback for a debt you don't think we owe (here we go again) then you're criticizing them for not entering the two MAJOR conflicts of the last century early enough. No, you're not having that one." - Show me where I blamed the US for the 5 conflicts and you can keep it and your credibility on that one. Your link to the late entry to the majors is puzzling and simply incoherent.

quote "Show me where I said that? Of course the Yanks helped us. It suited their purposes as well." - You believe we owe a debt to them because they saved our bacon by default of their interests, is that it?

quote "Why would they get involved before they had to ? Where did I say "they decided to immediately come to our aid" ?" - Here's a more accurate debt-analogy. You're having the piss beaten out of you and another is about to join in. Your mate is just standing back watching and only steps in at the last minute, but only after he copped a couple of cheap shots and was told he was next. He also realises that if he waits for you to fall it will be harder for him to defeat these thugs. Would you feel indebted to him? Gee, I hope you understand that one.

quote "Of course Australia was ideal strategically and logistically, did I say it was'nt. Does that lessen the fact they saved our bacon ?" - Lessen the fact - no.

quote "Of course Japan realized invading Australia was problematical but cutting us off from our Allies and denying the US a safe base to operate from was definitely a key point in their strategy." - Wow, we agree. Even though we were comparitively weak, they still needed us.

quote "If you don't think there is a debt at all, why did you propose the 5 MINOR conflicts as some sort of payback ( that you don;t believe we owe ). Are you having a bet each way or just happy to jump on the bandwagon that blames the US for everything." - Again, mates dont indebt each other for helping out. This is what I believe. Others dont and need proof that debts must always be paid in full. Mates just help mates, straight away, no questions asked. Grateful, absolutely. Indebted, no.

quote "If you don't understand the analogy that also indicates your character." - oooh! Nice double-dare, Meggsy.
0
FollowupID: 614712

Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Friday, Jan 30, 2009 at 15:28

Friday, Jan 30, 2009 at 15:28
Off-track,

Hahahahaha you're losing it.

I don't care what terms CDF uses, I'll stick to AWM as the authority on the subject.

As usual, you resort to straight out lies to try and justify your argument e.g.


Show me where I said "the prime reason they had personnel and hardware based here was just for our protection"

Show me where I said ""they decided to immediately come to our aid"


Always a pleasure to have a discussion with you, when you can stick to the facts and refrain from the abuse of course.
0
FollowupID: 614765

Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Friday, Jan 30, 2009 at 15:48

Friday, Jan 30, 2009 at 15:48
Baaahaaahaaa .....

Off-track ... he got to you hey .... heh heh .... Hes good at that ... drags it all out ... makes conflicting statements ... intoduces new points to way lay you .... and best of all, most anybody - trying to follow the original point is a lost as someone with flat batteries in their GPS ... lolol


Gramps (NSW) posted:
Doug,

Yes, some stuck up snot noses forget the debt we owe the Yanks. Like it or lump it.

Gramps (NSW) posted:

No country comes to anybody's aid during a conflict unless it serves their purposes. Thank God we were'nt relying on the Poms despite what we'd done both then and during the previous unpleasantness.

As to "thats been paid back many times over" - when ? We have never done anything for/with them that even remotely approaches it.


1/. ..I enjoyed the confirmation of my point of view with the opening sentence in the 2nd post ... The US presence here was of as much value as the overextended japanese military and the impending return of australian divisions ... No one thing decided australias fate at the time. Credit where credit is due though ... I doubt whether anyone would deny that longterm US involvement in WW2 certainly made all the difference in achieving an ... Allied Forces "win" by 1945.

2/. .. Reliance on england ??? ... I think the fall of singapore sealed the deal on the old - relying on england fantasy ... had nothing to do with thanking god ... as logistically - it was never going to happen.

3/. .. Anything that this country ( with its smaller population ) does in regard to:.... trade agreements ... mineral and oil rights ... land concessions ... military action or military aid, and other favours for the US ... can be regarded as payment towards any perceived debt that some seem to think australia, still owes the US. ... Just a thought ... If australia can, rightly so - get over the facts of the 1940's - and wholeheartedly support japanese manufacturing - and twin city programmes etc., whats with the prolonged "debt" business with the U.S anyway ????.... Big difference to being appreciative - and owing, I would think.

4/. .. Given the second post opening sentence, just how big is this - supposed debt ... ????? ... The following sentence in that post ... and other references to australian military casualties ... implies the need see an equal number of body bags ... ??? ... Given the differences in the population levels, I guess that particular debt will be around for a long time ... and not one I want see fulfilled.

5/. .. Korea ... under US "protection" / "guidance" since the mid 40s ... No sudden, UN approved US led action there - Just the the apparent UN sanctioning of the Truman Doctrine ... extended to asia - and the US containment of communism in asia policy - NSC 48 and its variants. Id reckon you get to keep that point ...

6/. .. The "Brisbane Line" .... fact or fiction .. politically motivated .. a military strategy or for private profiteering - The concept of a "Brisbane Line" did exist ... Numerous aticles refer to a similiar proposal pre WW1 ... And why not ??? ... What better location for an undermanned, ill equipped army to defend its countries main resources and manufacturing facilities ... A bunch of old lumps of concrete ( although I appreciated the info reminder ) is not the reason I would use for its credibility ... rather the logical, strategical and defensive position of the stated area.
Whether or not it would be used - would have depended on an invasion ... and lets face it ... what govt would admit to its voters ( after a perceived threat has safely passed ) that it was willing to give up 3/4s of its controlled landmass and that areas population to a another nation - that in the 1940's ... considered beheading and suicide ... an honour ???

7/. .. In a thread about patriotic behaviour ... I thought it a sad that a person could condone the unpatriotic dealings of any countries industrial entities, towards its governments enemies ... Was interesting to note that I was asked whether - " Have you bothered to check the dealings of other nations at the time or is this just a US-bashing exercise? " when I had provided a link with reference to other countries and had already made this statement ... Any govt that allows those goings on ... especially under those conditions - is owed nothing by anybody.

8/. .. Your abusive ... reread his opening line in his first post ... lololol

You will learn to ignore in time ...
0
FollowupID: 614772

Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Friday, Jan 30, 2009 at 16:40

Friday, Jan 30, 2009 at 16:40
Oztroopy,

You've been hiding in the shadows again.

1. Suggest you read up on the events of 4-8/5/1942 and their impact on Japanese strategy and operations thereafter.

2. Exactly my point.

3. There will always be a "debt". You're the ones who seem to think it HAS to be paid back ?

4. The reference to casualties merely points out the MINOR nature of Off-track's alleged "paybacks" not that we should sacrifice an equal number.

5. So you believe Korea was solely to satify US interests? You really have the anti-US bug bad, don't you. It was a UN approved, US led (who else could do it) action. We fulfilled our obligations to the UN - end of story.

6. "Brisbane line" a total fiction with absolutely no official documents to substantiate it's existence except in the fevered minds of attention seekers. I suppose you believe in Yowies as well.Brisbane Line

7. Check the post again. It specifically states the 20's and 30's. Do you have any idea of when the US officially went to war or is that too hard a concept ? As usual, you like to blur the FACTS and lie..

8. Me ? Abusive ? Never. All in the eyes of the beholder.

Unless either of you can come up with something new or interesting, I'm happy to accept your surrender - unconditionally.

0
FollowupID: 614784

Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Friday, Jan 30, 2009 at 22:13

Friday, Jan 30, 2009 at 22:13
FollowupID: 614784 Submitted: Friday, Jan 30, 2009 at 15:40 Gramps (NSW) posted:

Oztroopy,

You've been hiding in the shadows again.

Response:
Hiding in the shadows ... or ignoring .... With apologies to Chubby Checker ... Lets do the twist again ... lolol

1. Suggest you read up on the events of 4-8/5/1942 and their impact on Japanese strategy and operations thereafter.

Response:
You referring to Midway ??? nearly 6mnths after Pearl Harbour ??? ... as I said in a previous post ...
FollowupID: 614772 Submitted: Friday, Jan 30, 2009 at 14:48
"No one thing decided australias fate at the time."
Even the bickering between the heads of the japanese land and sea forces provided allied forces with opportunities.

2. Exactly my point.

Response:
My point actually ....
FollowupID: 614538 Submitted: Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 11:21 OzTroopy posted:
"There was nobody coming to australias' aid at that time"
Pleas to the US ( referred to by FDR as panic and disloyalty ), Misuse of aust troops overseas, submitted plans to concentrate defences below Brisbane. The place was in quite a state.

3. There will always be a "debt". You're the ones who seem to think it HAS to be paid back ?

Response:
Sighhhhhh .....
FollowupID: 614480 Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 23:06 Gramps (NSW) posted:
"Yes, some stuck up snot noses forget the debt we owe the Yanks. Like it or lump it. "
FollowupID: 614538 Submitted: Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 11:21 OzTroopy posted:
Additionally ... this country owes NO debt to the U.S. - thats been paid back many times over ... even in blood.

4. The reference to casualties merely points out the MINOR nature of Off-track's alleged "paybacks" not that we should sacrifice an equal number.

Response:
Minor ??????? according to your statement - "21 other Western and Asian nations involved in Korea"
And of course ....the associated total losses in lives and equipment, military and civilian in that theatre alone.????

5. So you believe Korea was solely to satify US interests? You really have the anti-US bug bad, don't you. It was a UN approved, US led (who else could do it) action. We fulfilled our obligations to the UN - end of story.
Response:
a)..According to my summary of economic,military and political, left / right and down the middle publications ... Yes.
b)..Yep ... so bad I now own two american vehicles.
c)..Any one of the other UN participants ... Maybe even australia, as according to AWM information it was good for training and bolstering of our military.
d).. We fullfilled our obligations to the US, Ourselves and the UN.

6. "Brisbane line" a total fiction with absolutely no official documents to substantiate it's existence except in the fevered minds of attention seekers.
I suppose you believe in Yowies as well. Brisbane Line

Response:
Since no other source of info apart from the AWM is of interest to you, I have chosen this item - sourced from another federal building complex ... just across the pond from the AWM so I'm led to believe, so hoping that meets with your limited approval.
Should be genuine enough to show that the concept of a Brisbane Line ( if needed ) was real enough ... Site Link
Then I guess, theres always this picture ... reportedly from US archives ... Site Link
Not to mention reams of other google search responses of varying levels of credibility.

Would appreciate it if you stopped insinuating that people only believe it was something like a fortified "maginot line " that magically dissapeared along with all govt records of its existence.
It was a concept of defence, of australia - that thankfully ... was never needed.

7. Check the post again. It specifically states the 20's and 30's. Do you have any idea of when the US officially went to war or is that too hard a concept ?
As usual, you like to blur the FACTS and lie..

Response:
Picking out the titbits to formulate provocative posts is certainly an art with you isnt it. ?? Perhaps you could elaborate on how a manufacturer would know what quantity of particular vehicle models would needed to be built - pre 1941 to provide a total of 90% of those vehicles used up until 1945 in battlefield conditions.
If the big three still had a chrystal ball that could do that ... they wouldn't be in the strife they are in now.

8. Me ? Abusive ? Never. All in the eyes of the beholder.

Response:
LOLOLOLOL

Unless either of you can come up with something new or interesting, I'm happy to accept your surrender - unconditionally.

Response:
That was almost funny ... keep working on that !!!
0
FollowupID: 614858

Reply By: Flywest - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 00:55

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 00:55
Does it worry me?

Yep - these days any holiday seems to be just an excuse to get on the booze and be violent and a problem for our police and a nuisance to our neighbours!!

What also worries me.....

CONTENT DELETED AS RACIST COMMENT.

We are a moniority and our opinion doesnt matter to pollies any more- they are al too busy Kow Rowing to some minorty group or another with land Rights for Gay Whales agendas!

I'd vote Sam Keckoviych 1 for PM!

No - my names not Jack Van Tongren - I'm just a ordinary Aussie Bloke who's had a gutfull of doo gooders screwing up what was ONCE a great nation.

Our country lacks vision and leadership & Kev 07 has failed the test!

1. We are the driest continent on earth.

2. The Snowy Scheme "integrated a hge number of Europeans after the war into becomming dinky die Aussies!

3. It also helped drag us out of the great depression into the period of baby boomers after WW2

4. The Water Pipeline from Perth to Kalgoorlie was a feat of engineering of international significance at the time, that to this day with the Kalgoorlie Super pit gold mine has returned and continues to return to this nation $ BILLIONS in Gold mined there.

5. We DESPERATELY in these economic times need massive capital infrastructure projects like the Snowy Scheme, to improve the unemployment position in this economic downturn recession / depression. This is the "LEADERSHIP & VISION" missing in Aus.

6. a 'NATIONAL WATER GRID" ringing the nation, fed by large dams in the North of Australia Like Argyle in WA (Dam the Fitzroy) and those other large rivers in the Kimberly - NT and FNQ
would DROUGHT PROOF this nation forever more!

7. Fed Govt could pump water to whatever state it is required in drought conditions, and sell it tooo the state govtt who then dsitribute it & get paid for it by consumers - thru the existing reticulated supply!

8. Land made "Arable" by the passage of that water past now desert potions of this nation would become the food bowl of the world - feeding bilions and giving immigrants (legal and otherwise) a chance to become dinky die Ausslies and have an "opportunity" to make a life for themselves here - as well as making us a food exporting nation with a renewable resource!

It's not so hard to build a nation - all it takes is leadership with vision and determination!

We had that once back when CY O'Connor built the Perth tokal Water Pipeline!

Its about time we got it back and if Kev 07 can't fot those boots then it is high time we got someone who can regardless what party he or she comes from!

I can tell you now - that CHINA with it's giant Aswan Dam - didn't become a world economic powerhouse overnightfor no reason and without some leadership and vision and suffering to get there!

Something else I can tell you is this:-

IF we don't get off our fat lazy butts and do this ourselves and soon - CHINA wont have missed recognizing that potential in our continent - and WHEN (not if) our protector in the USA becomes a glass bowl parking lot that glows in the dark as a result of it's decline and eventual defeat in a Nuke Exchange with Russia, the Chinese will walk in here and we will ALL learn to speak Mandarin like Kev 07 and end up as slaves planting ricve in the Paddys for our new Chinese overlords!

When that happesn we have only ourselves to blame!

In this world there is only ONE law - get big or get out!

It's time this nation recognized it's potential

If we don't someone else will do it for us!

Cheers
AnswerID: 346502

Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 00:57

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 00:57
Should be a short count I reckon 3 2 1 gooonnnnneeee
0
FollowupID: 614501

Follow Up By: Flywest - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 01:38

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 01:38
Yeah Al - it'll probably get deleted on a flash - coz it's not "politically correct" these days to say whats on your mind anymore!

Funny thing is - when that crazy red head Pauline Pants down suggested our immigration policy was destroying the character of this nation there was a groundswell of opinion from average Aussies tha threatened to alter the election results for the Libs federally so they had her put in jail on trumped up electoral charges, effectively as a "political prisoner!".

I might not have voted for her - but I reckon she had a right to have a go and what was dome to her was "unaustralian".

Our countrys long ast saving - we are just a vassal state of the See Eye Eh - they have been running this joint since harold Holt caught a submarine and Whitlam got stitched up in the Kemlahni loans affair financed thru the See Eye Ehh "front" Nugan Hand Bank back in 72

There are a few left who still knwo up from down but even the internet these days is controlled to keep everyone from knowing what really happened!

I consider deletion as confirmation of my suspicions/opinions in that, it scares big brother enough they see a need to silence me!

Funny enough - you'd be amazed at the number of people who eventually wake up to the fact that theres a ot more to what i say than initially appears on the surface - all i would say is that "Google is your friend".

"Nugan Hand Bank & CIA" makes an interesting search and read!
;o)

Can't have vassal state of Australia reaching it's true potential - we might become a "threat" to our Rulers in the UK & USA!

That would never do!

At the end of the day we are still convictc working for the man!

Had French Hoffmeister not met such a sad end (remember Googles your friend) we too might have become a republic like France and the USA did! (Hint The Great Shearers Strike of 1892/3 & 1896 -98 & The Eureka Stockade!).

We had a chance to be free but we blew it unlike the other 2 republics!

Cheers
0
FollowupID: 614509

Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 12:26

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 12:26
Its still here .... ??????

LOLOLOL
0
FollowupID: 614540

Follow Up By: robak (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 14:21

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 14:21
Flywest,

With such poorly researched knee jerk solutions, you should become a politician.

Have you ever seen the show "Are you smarter than a 5th grader"?

0
FollowupID: 614569

Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Respectfully- Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 17:39

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 17:39
yet another tirade from a tosser with an axe to grind.

Flywest you must have a huge stepladder cause I havent seen anyone that far up themselves without assistance.
.
Time is an illusion produced by the passage of history
.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message
Moderator

0
FollowupID: 614612

Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 18:10

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 18:10
Bonz,

ROFLMAO

I'm glad you posted that "Respectfully"

0
FollowupID: 614623

Follow Up By: Willem - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 23:48

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 23:48
Ummmmm...methinks the Aswan Dam is on the Nile River in Eqypt

Apart from that I don't have any thoughts on the subject mooted here apart for being tolerant of other peoples ways.....however much you may dislike the notion.


Cheers
0
FollowupID: 614694

Reply By: Member - Mfewster(SA) - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 11:37

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 11:37
I'm with you D200Dug and Footloose. Being patriotic has nothing to do with all the flag waving BS. The more frantic the flag waving/wearing stuff, the more I get concerned that these are very insecure people. Roosevelt wasn't an Australian, but he had the right idea. Speak quietly but carry a big stick. The more we want to make a big noise.......
AnswerID: 346529

Reply By: The Landy - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 11:58

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 11:58
January 26 represents an event in history, the day white Australian’s arrived and that isn’t to suggest that it isn’t an important day. For some it may be a mixed day.

Whether you want to wave flags, drape one over you, fly one, or celebrate it quietly on this day is probably a personal choice.

For me the spirit of the ANZAC demonstrates what it truly means to be an Australian.

You could look to Trooper Donaldson, the soldier recently awarded the Victoria Cross, for no better example of what it means to be an Australian, regardless of origin.

Courage, Mateship, Endurance, Sacrifice

Live by this creed and you’re well on your way to being an Australian – well for me at least!

The Landy
AnswerID: 346534

Reply By: png62 - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 12:24

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 12:24
Ahhhh ! - how refreshing, an open discussion on being an Aussie.I tend to agree with most of what has been said.

I too, feel extremely patriotic, have served 10 yrs in the ADF and love this country.

Aussie born in Papua New Guinea when it was a territory of Oz, Scots parents - I'm confused most of the time. I love the skirl of the bagpipes, the sounds and smells of a traditional PNG tribal celebration and music by Jimmy Barnes, Icehouse, etc. Some of my best mates are African, Lebanese, Greek and Polish.

Struth, It's great being an Aussie !!!!!

The quiet stoicism and a nod to, or a handshake with another aussie bloke or sheila, will make me relax more than yobbos running around waving the flag and abusing the privilege of carrying it.
I don't want to see the flag changed - yeah, yeah, I hear the argument about representations of other nations, offending the original inhabitants and so on. Why spend the good ol' Aussie (yeah - you and me) tax payers hard earned folding stuff on symbols, we've got a flag now, let's quietly and proudly display it.
AnswerID: 346540

Reply By: Nargun51 - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 13:22

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 13:22
After lurking on the peripheries of a number of forums over the years, I have a half formed idea that a good forum is like a favourite pub; a place where you can go to pass the hours, have a chat if you want, pass a bit of banter about or just listen to the conversation whilst having a quite ale.

Like a good pub, a good forum should be friendly and welcoming.

A good pub has a management who is involved and concerned about its patrons and who keep an eye on what is happening. If need be they will take the steps to intervene as, after all, all they are running a business and if the patrons don’t feel comfortable they’ll take their business to the Terminus, Commercial or Station

It’s in the management’s best interests as well as their patrons to take active intervention in what is happening in the main bar, because whilst it is friendly and welcoming new patrons will come and the established patrons won’t leave.

How many here have been to a pub where the moment they walk in the door they know that it won’t be worth coming back to, because neither the management or patrons are willing to acknowledge your presence? How many have gone back?

I’d suggest that most people here treat this place like their local; wander in and say g’day, pick a brain or two, chat about what happened during the day or even have a minor whinge or two

A good old Australian tradition!

In the corner of each pub there’s an old coot drinking with the flies who’s got an opinion on everything. Most of the people let him mumble away under his breath. They all know he has spent too much time in the sun and the bitterness of his live has etched itself on every word he says. Of course, he is patronised like buggery, but occasionally some young buck will take a swing at him because of something he said and then the regulars go to his defence. Due to this, he believes that people are hanging onto every word he says

In reality, they ignore him, which is far sadder
AnswerID: 346553

Follow Up By: Member - DOZER- Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 16:02

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 16:02
What was the original question again??? (lol) Is it Australian to wave Chinese flags?? We all drive foreign cars, why wouldnt we wave chinese flags, as fast as we want????
Let us all remember that money cant buy freedom.
Andrew
b4 you bag me out, walk a mile in my shoes, then your a mile away and have my shoes :)

Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message
Classifieds: Bt50/Ranger Speedy grande2 18x8 alloys (x4), Landcruiser 200 series/100 series 4 alloy rims with tyres and nuts GC

0
FollowupID: 614579

Follow Up By: robak (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 16:16

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 16:16
It did for skase.
:)
0
FollowupID: 614588

Follow Up By: D200Dug- Friday, Jan 30, 2009 at 15:45

Friday, Jan 30, 2009 at 15:45
I think my original question was should I feed my hamster wholegrain bread?

It has gone off on a tangent since then :-)

Cheers doug

PS Discussion is great I am happy that people are willing to discuss this without threats abuse or unpleasantness. That is VERY Australian !!!!!
0
FollowupID: 614771

Reply By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 16:35

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 16:35
Well we spent Australia Day erecting a Flag Poll and flying the Flag on it.
We erected it in the front yard of my wife's late brother - (Trooper David Pearce, the first of our diggers killed in Afghanistan). We put it up in his memory for his widow and young daughters. David always wanted a flag poll in the front yard, but never got t0 put one up. So we did it for him.

There were about 20 of us there; a few family, but mostly his Army mates, come to lend a hand and spend some time with David's family. To me, that was a good use of Australia Day and our flag.

I'm happy to see our flag flown on Australia Day and any other time, but not by the drunken louts who caused trouble in a few places. Fortunately, they were a very small minority. Unfortunately, they got a lot of media attention.

Norm C
AnswerID: 346585

Reply By: Off-track - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 17:00

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 17:00
I have no problem with, nor do I see what the fuss is with a person draping a flag over themselves. It is a representation of the flag that flies from the pole, and not the actual flag that flies from the pole. Get over it.

I do cringe though when louts and ar*seholes do under the flag on their back.
AnswerID: 346592

Follow Up By: Off-track - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 20:29

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 20:29
Meant to read "I do cringe and am sometimes disgusted with what louts and ar*seholes do under the flag on their back."
0
FollowupID: 614659

Reply By: Louie the fly (SA) - Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 18:04

Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 at 18:04
People should be encouraged to fly our flag, but they need to know what it represents. Agreed that some of the drunken yobbo types make a bit of a mockery of it, but lots of people only fly the flag on Australia day. I can't believe the amount of boats I saw on the Murray last weekend that had flags on them all weekend. It was a bit like what you see in the states and I like the American concept of patriotism (though not necessarily much else about them).

Another thing is I can never understand why they only play the national anthem at 'major' sporting events. i.e. In the AFL, the national anthem is only played at finals games but not at minor round games. Not sure about other sports. It's always played at a test match though from my memory (both countries).

I think there is still an element of embarrassment about being patriotic in this country. Patriotism is not reserved for the "good 'ol US of A."

Be patriotic, & keep flying the flag.

Louie the fly
AnswerID: 346607

Reply By: Flywest - Friday, Jan 30, 2009 at 01:04

Friday, Jan 30, 2009 at 01:04
Tell ya what did bug me on Ozzie day!

Went up to a high spot in perth suburbs where we could get a gander at the skyworks display for a half hour!

Got there early and ggot a spot - parked and watched.

Lottsa neighborhood peeps and kids all havin fun (and of many assorted backgrounds) - happy noises - now this is what Oz is all about!

Then comes all the inconsiderate peeps - arriving late and driving up n down the elevated street LATE thru the middle of the skyshow with their head lights on high beams, destroying everyone elses view of the show by blinding them repeatedly, -just to "get a momentary glimpse" at everyone elses expense, coz they were too tardy to get their act together and get there early and get a parkin spot!

Now that bugged me!

Cheers!
AnswerID: 346681

Follow Up By: get outmore - Friday, Jan 30, 2009 at 05:45

Friday, Jan 30, 2009 at 05:45
you were in the wrong spot thats all
went to the lookout up top of Welshpool road and walked along the escarpment walk trail
- no cars no people
no use not doing your research then complaining about it
0
FollowupID: 614719

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (14)