here we go again - fuel prices on the rise ready for easter

Submitted: Tuesday, Apr 07, 2009 at 17:22
ThreadID: 67650 Views:1950 Replies:4 FollowUps:19
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on the 3pm news on the radio (in sydney) they said to expect a 15 to 20 cents per litre rise in petrol because of easter coming up. they also said to expect to see increases as early as tomorrow.

not sure what easter has to do with petrol pricing - but guess the oil companies will spurt out the usual load of cr.ap expecting us all to believe how hard done they are.

no mention on amounts to expect for diesel or lpg. for the record, today unleaded was 102.9c/l at WW with a discount and lpg 50.9c/l with discount
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Reply By: Axel [ the real one ] - Tuesday, Apr 07, 2009 at 17:26

Tuesday, Apr 07, 2009 at 17:26
Consider yourself lucky to be able to buy fuel locally ,, nearest fuel in Muttaburra is an 86klm drive one way.... No shopper docket either.
AnswerID: 358622

Follow Up By: PradOz - Tuesday, Apr 07, 2009 at 17:33

Tuesday, Apr 07, 2009 at 17:33
i understand that some are not as lucky as me in regard to proximity (or even price/availability) for fuel etc, but then again i think you would be lucky to be living out of the 'big smoke'

it wasnt meant to be about availability but rather more about how we continually get ripped off at the holiday times by the big oil companies (big banks, big food chains etc - seems to be a pattern hey) and we just put up with it and the govt seems to stand by waffling on about it and what they are doing. not sure what we can do other than vote with our feet especially when they choose to increase so sharply for simply profit reasons
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Reply By: Krakka - Tuesday, Apr 07, 2009 at 17:58

Tuesday, Apr 07, 2009 at 17:58
Don't worry about fuel prices, they go up and then come back down. You should be more worried about food prices, they go up but don't come back down.

If you use the discount dockets you are condoning what the monopolies are doing and you are voluntarily bending over for them to give it to you. So to speak.

Don,t know how to vote with my feet as I'm not walking 60km p/day to go to work.

Cheers

Krakka
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Follow Up By: PradOz - Tuesday, Apr 07, 2009 at 18:51

Tuesday, Apr 07, 2009 at 18:51
The only suppliers for lpg for me are the w'worths + coles variety, so guess why i have to use it! And just FYI, I do not normally use their dockets, i was merely quoting their lowest prices. The savings are negligible so i am past worrying about getting them. I would rather see every service station owner/operator able to buy the fuel at the same costs to help regulate the prices ao we are not being ripped off by these monopolies . (And BTW, the local servos also dont have diesel so lucky for me i have LPG/petrol)

And in regard to voting with your feet - it sounds like you already are doing that by choosing not to use the discount dockets.

These monopolies can do what they do when people have attitudes like "Don't worry about fuel prices, they go up and then come back down". I am glad that irresponsible rises in fuel costs are not an issue for you, but discussions on here and elsewhere in regard to this would seem to suggest it is an issue the average person is concerned about
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Follow Up By: Krakka - Tuesday, Apr 07, 2009 at 21:09

Tuesday, Apr 07, 2009 at 21:09
Can't help it, my replies always sound harsh, sorry PradOZ didn't mean it to sound like I was chewin' ya.

You're right the savings are negligable, but the trouble is by buying groceries at these places we are still subsidising the fuel that others are buying when we don't use the dockets ourselves. For years now I have used a local very small Caltex fuel depot, NEVER have I had to queue up for fuel {and never will}, they are aligned with a local IGA, you have to buy the fuel first and then take your fuel reciept to the IGA and you get 4c off of every $1.00 worth of groceries you purchase over $30.00. I don't shop there either as it is a small IGA and never have what you want. Also the saving is negligible.

Rises in fuel prices are an issue for me, But thats life, I need it.
We find it easier to cut back in the grocery shopping than to worry about fuel being 10c litre dearer here and there.

Regards
Krakka
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Reply By: Rockape - Tuesday, Apr 07, 2009 at 20:18

Tuesday, Apr 07, 2009 at 20:18
I have no problems at all with Easter fuel prices as I am working.

Have a good Easter
AnswerID: 358667

Reply By: Best Off Road - Tuesday, Apr 07, 2009 at 20:28

Tuesday, Apr 07, 2009 at 20:28
Hotels/Motels/Resorts charge premium prices in the high season when they can. They suffer and discount in the off season.

Airlines do the same.

Car dealers......

Fruit producers......

Should I go on?

Anyone remember the adage, "make hay whilst the sun shines"?

AnswerID: 358670

Follow Up By: Saharaman (aka Geepeem) - Wednesday, Apr 08, 2009 at 06:29

Wednesday, Apr 08, 2009 at 06:29
Thats right - I was just about to post the same comment when I read yours.
No-one seems to criticize the holiday industry (caravan parks, motels, resorts, holiday units etc) who charge up to twice the off peak rate for Easter and other school holidays. I see it as simply a market decision for any business - if you can charge a higher price when demand is high , well do so to maximise profits. I do not like it but it is an acceptable business practice in other sectors so why criticise the fuel companies.
Anyway you can get around it by planning an buying ahead. Yesterday (Tuesday) diesel was 101.5 at Freedom at Brendale.
So simply fill up early for Easter (incl jerries & LRT if necessary).
I think it is a non issue really.
Cheers
GPM
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Follow Up By: Axel [ the real one ] - Wednesday, Apr 08, 2009 at 08:39

Wednesday, Apr 08, 2009 at 08:39
So you condone being ripped off ?? A motel room costs x$ per day to service day in day out , it costs an airline the same x$ to fly on a monday as it does on a tuesday and yet you condone paying more ,, explain why the family with kids [ or even those without ] have to pay extra during school holidays ? The old adage of make hay while the sunshines is nought but " lets rippoff the family man /woman while we can ".
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Wednesday, Apr 08, 2009 at 09:30

Wednesday, Apr 08, 2009 at 09:30
Axel what you are suggesting is a centralised price fixing system. It's been tried in the old Eastern Block countries, predominantly with Govt ownership of industry. It doesn't work.

We live in a Capitalist Democracy where the basic principles of Market Forces combined with Supply and Demand will dictate pricing.

We also have laws to protect against Monopolies and Cartels.

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Follow Up By: Axel [ the real one ] - Wednesday, Apr 08, 2009 at 09:42

Wednesday, Apr 08, 2009 at 09:42
And the laws are a joke , "protect against monpololies + cartels ". What do you call 2 companies controlling the retail of fuel , the banks that dont pass on official policy , 3 airlines in name only , ect ect ,,,, JoeBloggs comes to buy a c/t during the school holidays , "will cost you an extra 25/50% " yeah right !!! same thing [ rippoff] different scenario.
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Wednesday, Apr 08, 2009 at 10:02

Wednesday, Apr 08, 2009 at 10:02
I haven't heard Richard Pratt cracking too many jokes about these "toothless'' laws.

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Follow Up By: Saharaman (aka Geepeem) - Wednesday, Apr 08, 2009 at 10:30

Wednesday, Apr 08, 2009 at 10:30
Axel,
It is not being ripped off - it is simply market forces at play. I never said I condoned it either. In fact I said I do not like it. BUT why is there always a post about fuel increases in holiday periods when no-one says anything about other sectors doing exactly the same thing.
If you ran a business and you could charge a higher price (for the same goods or services) at a particular time than at other times - then you would probably do the same.
As stated this holiday price increase for fuel can be avoided - simply buy early and fill up reserve tanks and jerries. It really is a non issue.
Cheers
GPM
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Follow Up By: Axel [ the real one ] - Wednesday, Apr 08, 2009 at 11:14

Wednesday, Apr 08, 2009 at 11:14
Saharaman ,, there should not be a need to have to fill up /avoid a holiday price increase in fuel or any other product , the cry of " market forces at play ' is really a call of lets rippoff becausewe can ,,,,,,, the fuel in the underground tank does not magicaly rise in cost overnight just as a motel bed cannot by magic cost X$ one day and cost XX$ the next ..... a rippoff caused by greed and toothless regulation ,,, PURE market forces would dictate that the price of fuel should go down at holiday periods due to a higher turnover and less storage costs,
"charge a higher price for the same goods / sevices at a particular time" is a blatant rippoff , its happy hour time at the pub ,very busy ,have to charge more ,yeah right ..... lol. ,,,
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Follow Up By: Nargun51 - Wednesday, Apr 08, 2009 at 11:23

Wednesday, Apr 08, 2009 at 11:23
Axel

What do you suggest?

You appear to have spent a lot of time deliberating on this matter to have reached your conclusions.

You have obviously “gamed” your thoughts out and have reached these conclusions having taken into consideration the economic, political, legal and social effects of these in both the short and long terms.

Please have the courtesy to elaborate on these in the open forum so that others may consider these to form their own opinions.

To have reached any conclusion on fuel pricing, you have must have taken into consideration all the aspects of the process from pump head to the car. Elaborating on these would help support your conclusions. Of course, you have done this over a long period of time so that past, present and future fluctuations of each of these are taken into consideration.

What is the acceptable profit margin for each of the companies involved as a percentage of their outlay for infrastructure at every point in the process?

What laws should the Government put in place to stop “price gouging”? How should these be worded? Do these laws impinge on other legislation; Commonwealth or State, International or Common Law? Are they workable and if so, who should implement these?

I’m sorry, I’m not as articulate or erudite as you, and obviously not as well read as you as you are, so could you please help me to identify a good old Australian word used to describe someone who complains about things, but is unable to suggest workable solutions

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Follow Up By: Axel [ the real one ] - Wednesday, Apr 08, 2009 at 11:43

Wednesday, Apr 08, 2009 at 11:43
Nargun 51 , if you cant figure out when you are being ripped off , just go back to sleep ,,, pumphead to car costing does not vary overnight does it ? ???????? A motel room that costs $100 on a Monday to service costs no more to service on a Tuesday does it ?????? Go back to sleep.....
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Follow Up By: Saharaman (aka Geepeem) - Wednesday, Apr 08, 2009 at 11:44

Wednesday, Apr 08, 2009 at 11:44
Axel,
Your comments are completely illogical ang ignore reality.
Are you saying that the price charged for a good or service should be constant at all times throughout the full year - if you are that is quite ludicrous.
Are you saying if I call a plumber at midnight Sunday night to fix a burst pipe he should charge me exactly the same as if I called him at 10 oclock Monday morning. To use your logic his costs are exactly the same as Monday (fuel to get there, spare parts used etc etc). So he should charge me the Monday rate - yeah right.
According to you the plumber would be ripping me off if he charged a higher price.
The fact is businesses operate in a dynamic environment and the prices charged ultimately depend on supply and demand, availabilty of service providers, his willingness to do business and so on. In a capitalist market economy price variations due to timing and many other factors all contribute to a market equiibrium price being determined. Overall the benefits of a capitalist society in the efficient allocation of scarce resources allows us all a higher standard of living than would otherwise be the case. Despite any pitfalls it is still the best system.
Cheers
GPM

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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Wednesday, Apr 08, 2009 at 11:55

Wednesday, Apr 08, 2009 at 11:55
Isn't it amazing that someone who has no understanding of economics and has ever run a business could possibly know so much? Quite an amazing man.

In the truest Irish tradition "I dips me lid to you Axel".

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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Wednesday, Apr 08, 2009 at 11:56

Wednesday, Apr 08, 2009 at 11:56
That should read "has NEVER run a business"
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Follow Up By: Member - Matt M (ACT) - Wednesday, Apr 08, 2009 at 12:14

Wednesday, Apr 08, 2009 at 12:14
Axel,

I understand your frustration, but I am not sure it is quite right to say that the supply of fuel, making hotel beds, etc costs no more over Easter (or any holiday). Like it or not, we have a well regulated labour market and that regulation demands that the staff attending the service station, making beds, etc get paid more over these periods. The result is an increase in cost to the owners of these businesses to deliver their services over a holiday period.

Now whether the price increase accurately reflects these added labour costs is another question I suppose, remembering that profit margins for service station owners (who have to pay for staff and services over holidays) are pretty low. But it DOES cost more to make a bed on Sunday than making one on Tuesday.

As for banks, interest rate cuts may be 'official' policy, but there is no legislation demanding that the rate cuts be passed on. The decision to do so is a business one for the banks, to suggest that banks should be forced to pass rate cuts on is tantamount to State control of the banking system. This separation is one of the strengths of our banking system and perhaps part of the reason why the Australian financial sector has largely held up while numerous institutions overseas have gone to the dogs, resulting in huge hardship for investors and customers of those banks.

Hope you have a great Easter.

Matt (who has just filled up for the weekend).

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Follow Up By: Axel [ the real one ] - Wednesday, Apr 08, 2009 at 12:52

Wednesday, Apr 08, 2009 at 12:52
Once again Jim makes absurd statements that he has no knowledge of "never ran a buisness " ,, perhaps thats why Im a self funded 53 yr old retiree ,,,
Matt ,sorry but Im not actually frustrated by the price variations of fuel or any other product or service ,,, the LACK of JUSTIFICATION for the price variation is the point of contention , yes penalty rates are a factor in costings on public holidays and w/ends / night shifts ect but applying penalty rates to the general public during school holidays ect are in my opinion nought but a rippoff ,,, the actual costing of a motel room as an example does NOT vary on a weekly or monthly basis yet the price varies enormously on so called peak periods [ school holidays ] ,, perhaps if the pricing did not fluctuate so enormously the peaks and troughs of demand would even out.
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Follow Up By: Nargun51 - Wednesday, Apr 08, 2009 at 14:36

Wednesday, Apr 08, 2009 at 14:36
Axel

In your response to my epistle you asked the question “pumphead to car costing does not vary overnight does it?”

Yes it does.

All fuel is bought and sold in US dollars. A fluctuation in the exchange rate of 1% will change the prices at the pump up or down by over a cent. (Remember the Petrol you buy may have been bought and paid for under contracts months old and the company will have to repay the borrowed money at today’s exchange rates, so profit margins can change a few times in a day)

Let’s use the Easter period as an example. An adult console operator is paid a minimum of $14.31 per hour. This is the minimum wage expense factored into any litre of petrol sold. A casual day console operator is paid 125% of this rate; night 147%. Saturday 172.5%, Sundays 222.5% and public holidays 272%

According to your logic the price at the pump should change 7 times over Easter (Thursday to Tuesday).

For the sake of the argument, let’s use the example of a neighbourhood petrol station. On Good Friday the station will have to sell 172 times the amount of fuel that they would over an ordinary week day (assuming all other factors remain the same) to maintain the same profit margin. I’d suggest that fuel sales would actually drop on Good Friday…no workers going to work

For them to break even on this day, fuel prices would have to increase to at least 200%. So they them amortize the increased expenses over the entire holiday break.

They could try to amortize it over the entire year, but can a small business cannot afford to borrow that amount of money. A big company can.

The prices you pay in off peak periods are probably based on the minimum operational costs encountered (get the person through the door). For any company to survive, they have to increase their prices over periods of high demand so they can make a profit. Other than that they may as well sell the business and leave their money under the mattress

You rail against the system, but you didn’t answer my question

What is your considered opinion and what basis did you make this decision. How would you fix it?

Without that, your signature line is a mockery

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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Wednesday, Apr 08, 2009 at 15:22

Wednesday, Apr 08, 2009 at 15:22
I don't why I'm typing this, it would make more sense to expain it the dog, but here goes anyway.

As someone who owned a Motel for eight years I'll explain the pricing. In quiet times Moteliers will actaully let rooms at a loss if necessary.

Why?

Well it's like this. Each room fas fixed overheads eg Rent, Rates, Insurance etc. These costs are incurred everday of the year. Say for argument's sake this is $40 per day. To let the room you add on cleaning, linen, electricity etc; let's say this is $30.

So if you let the room at $55 you lose $15, to have it sit empty you lose $40. Reducing losses is as important as making profit.

This has to be recouped in the busy times, plus more to make a reasonable profit.

And trust me, you do have to let them go for a song at times. The punters will rape you when it's quiet.

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