Road Toll up on last Year, Not to much involment with 4wds.

Submitted: Thursday, Jun 04, 2009 at 19:54
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No ones going crazy with stats on 4wds accidents over the last few months, even though the figues are up on same time last year. Makes me wonder if the increased number of overall vehicles on the road each year is ever taken into consideration?.

If that is a fact, does the amount of vehicles on the road increase yearly?, there has to be a lot disappear, wonder what the ratio is there?.

Cheers Axle.
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Reply By: MARIC - Thursday, Jun 04, 2009 at 20:02

Thursday, Jun 04, 2009 at 20:02
Hi Axle, if that was taken into consideration, where would the shock tactics go to when the road safety councils give us the big pep talk etc, I always wondered about that and also you have to remember that statistics can be twisted to suit the person / organisation doing the spruiking
...... cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Thursday, Jun 04, 2009 at 20:10

Thursday, Jun 04, 2009 at 20:10
Very true!, Wouldn't it be nice to have some fairdinkum statistics at times!..lol.


Cheers Axle.
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Follow Up By: disco driver - Thursday, Jun 04, 2009 at 20:17

Thursday, Jun 04, 2009 at 20:17
Hi Maric .

Over the years a number of people have quoted on statistics, I can't remember who said what, but consider these quotes;

1 There are Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics.

2 There are two kinds of statistics, those you look up, and those you make up.

3 Statistics are a bit like a drunk and a lamppost, used for support rather than illumination.

Road Safety groups are very selective in choosing what statistics they use, otherwise their interpretations collapse into fallacy.

Just my opinion.

Disco.
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 01:49

Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 01:49
disco
A litttle like the Global warming BS going on all over the media , with Alice Springs recently recording the coldest day on record, anyone interested in the subject do a search on Ian Plimer,

.
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 09:43

Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 09:43
"Global warming BS"

My understanding is that Global Warming refers to the overall earths temp - not that at any one location. On average, it is predicted that, some places will get hotter, some will stay the same, some will get colder - but overall the average temp of the earth will rise. Quoting records from one location is meaningless and actually illustrates what the guys are pointing out in this thread - you can put a spin on stats to suit your own agenda if you so desire.

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Greg
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 09:54

Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 09:54
Greg
Don't forget ...your last comment goes both ways,
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 10:10

Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 10:10
Of course, that is obvious - I wasn’t providing support for or against the global warming issue (this issue is actually irrelevant to my post). Just pointing out, that your post appeared to me to be an example of how statistics can be used for a set agenda. To clarify - You can’t quote the temperature at one location of the earth from one day in the Earth’s history and use it as proof for or against Global Warming. If you wanted to use statistics for this purpose you would need measurements from as many locations as possible over as long a time period as possible.

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Greg
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Follow Up By: Member - Mfewster(SA) - Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 14:01

Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 14:01
While you do your research on Ian Plimer, also check out the rebuttal of his arguments from his colleagues. His book seems to make the same error that most sceptics of climate change make. Just because climate has always been in a state of flux and because lots of factors have resulted in climate, the conclusion is drawn that what is happening now is no different. It is. What is different now is that the speed of change can only be compared to major impact events in the past. (a few hundred years is almost the same as an impact in terms of geological age because it is not nearly long enough for species to adapt). Major impact events have always been disastrous. Doug has some good info on this on his site.
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Reply By: Exploder - Thursday, Jun 04, 2009 at 20:10

Thursday, Jun 04, 2009 at 20:10
I’m shocked, what and after increases in speed cameras, hoon laws, bigger fines more policing ect, ect it’s still up on last year, That’s impossible all this stuff is meant to save life’s?

Interesting enough over the long weekend in WA the Cop’s parked in front of speed cameras and didn’t issue traffic fines and the Long weekend road toll was down on last year.

Funnily enough we didn’t hear boo out of the road safety counsel!


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Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Thursday, Jun 04, 2009 at 20:24

Thursday, Jun 04, 2009 at 20:24
G/day young Fella! , Hope i've got the right exploder here?...lol. (The fast ford man} God only knows what will come into play with this road safetey thing?!!!.


Cheers Axle.
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Follow Up By: Exploder - Thursday, Jun 04, 2009 at 23:34

Thursday, Jun 04, 2009 at 23:34
yep still troll around on hear occasionally

Thou the Fast Ford now sits next to a... (washing mouth out with soap) Toyota 4WD LOL

Don't get to use the toys much, spend too much time on mine sites, last time i looked they had a film of dust on em, My 80yo Grandfather thought he would help me out by giving the Falcon a run and got a speeding fine, brought him a radar detector and told him he was a Hoon, hahaha.
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Reply By: Robin Miller - Thursday, Jun 04, 2009 at 22:24

Thursday, Jun 04, 2009 at 22:24
Despite the often well meaning intent of the axis of government/police/road safety bodies there combined effect on the ground has been to slow down the natural drop off in road deaths as projected by improved safety of vehicles.

The classic two humped camel as designed by a commitee .

Check out roadsense.com.au and read thru the sections entitled get the facts.

You will soon discover that only 2% of accidents are caused by driving over the posted speed limit , and soon start agreeing with their contention that speed doesn't kill - its collisions that kill.
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Reply By: Member - Matt H (SA) - Thursday, Jun 04, 2009 at 23:46

Thursday, Jun 04, 2009 at 23:46
The Road Toll is terrible in SA this year.

Something like 64 so far, compared to 35 last year. In fact, it's currently more now than it was at the end August last year!

I haven't noticed many (if any) involving 4wd's (let alone any at fault). SA's accidents seem to be young drivers doing excessive speed - either drag racing or under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

Two very recent ones that stick in my mind are a drag race down Magill Road in Adelaide at 130+ km/hr that killed 2? young people, and the other, a week or so ago out Ceduna way where 4 were killed when their stolen Commodore from WA left the road at 180 km/hr+. In this case, the occupants were known to police, and grog was involved.

I hate to say it, but I dont think even education would have saved these people.

My daily drive is a Subaru Liberty GT (for those who know them) and it's quick, but I'm constantly passed by young people driving these grey Jap imports like 200 sx's, etc which have similiar power.

Why haven't the Govt (particularly SA) restricted the younger people to cars that they can handle, until such times they have the experience and maturity to drive more powerful cars?

Please dont think I'm targeting young people (we were all their age once!), but the stats this year at least, indicate a disproportionate number of young people involved in high speed and alcohol/drug related crashes.

What do you do? If I knew the definitive answer to that, I'd be a rich 44 year old!

Matt
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Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 00:18

Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 00:18
Personally I believe the restrictions on more powerful vehicles is a toal misinterpretation of the problem.

I was riding 850cc and 1000cc bikes when the 250cc ruling came in for younguns.

Those little 250cc buzzboxes had more sting around town than what I was riding ... and almost the same top speeds in some cases.

Its the mindset that has to be changed ... and in a world now where extreme sport / take it to the limit lifestyles are promoted by every media means possible ... thats not a likely scenario.

If one kid who applied for a learners permit knew that, under heavy braking at speed with the wheels turned ... that the front end of a car would nosedive and the vehicle could possibly somersault ... I would be very surprised.

Thats the sort of knowledge that should be imparted on youth ... not how many gazillion different types of give way signs are ... and what the fine is if you cant remember what they all look like.
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Follow Up By: Ingtar - Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 13:23

Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 13:23
"I was riding 850cc and 1000cc bikes when the 250cc ruling came in for younguns.

Those little 250cc buzzboxes had more sting around town than what I was riding ... and almost the same top speeds in some cases. "

Sounds like you're confusing engine capacity limitations with power to weight limitations. I'm an ignorant Western Australian, where we still have the 250cc limit. But I believe that over east they base it on power to weight?

I've also read a few threads about younger people not being able to have the turbo-charged versions of some of the sports cars, but don't know any of the details.


Another thing I've been wondering, is that if you restrict the power until people are say... 21 or 25... do they suddenly become mature and used to the power, having not been allowed to drive them before? Part of learning how to drive with power, is being allowed to drive with power.
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Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 14:20

Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 14:20
I dont think Im confusing anything ... At the time a Govt ruling came in that there would be a 250cc limit imposed on new licensees / inexperienced riders.

If it had anything to do with power to weight ratios and performance levels ... Im sure our astute leaders would not have implemented such a useless scheme in the first place.

What todays bike rules are ... I have no idea ... but I doubt any commonsense has been applied to them either.

Vehicle type / model restrictions for learners is great for the economy ... it means in lots of cases that mum and dad have to go and buy another, extra vehicle just for juniors driving lessons ....... Its sad that the policy makers dont understand the difference between a turboed subaru WRX and a turboed farm work truck.

This comment is pretty spot on.

>"Another thing I've been wondering, is that if you restrict the power until people are say... 21 or 25... do they suddenly become mature and used to the power, having not been allowed to drive them before? Part of learning how to drive with power, is being allowed to drive with power."<

It also casts doubts on the 80kph learner limits ... At 80kph there is almost no need to use brakes or think ahead in regard to cornering procedures on 100kph stretches of road ... One can just blunder along as if in a railway carriage.

Not too mention overtaking procedures ... Or the boredom invoked on a 440klm round trip to BigW.

As with your comment ... I wonder these skills will suddenly become second nature once they get to 100kph class licensing ???
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Reply By: Ozboc - Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 08:37

Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 08:37
eerm ..... sorry to report -- was a fatality this morning in Sydney involving a 4x4... im sure we are going to get the ear bashing we normally get from it ..

Boc
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Reply By: graveconcerns - Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 10:07

Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 10:07
Ive studied stats at uni and it is extremely easy to pick which results suit your arguement on a given subject. Where we live, 4 out of 5 vehicles are 4 x 4 but most accidents involve passenger cars and semis. The stats dont fit here!
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