200 series drive - No Patrols, No Cruisers ? What recession ?

Submitted: Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 08:27
ThreadID: 70572 Views:4655 Replies:8 FollowUps:37
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After not being able to find a new Patrol recently, we booked a test drive
in a 200 series diesel.

On route to the dealer we had a phone call saying the one and only car was unavailable now.

Considered our options, made some phone calls and found a dealer who had a petrol one so we diverted mid-stream to the new dealer and took a base model GXL petrol 200 series V8 for a test drive.

After the test drive (reviewed below) we did the inevitable sit around the table getting ready for the pitch.
At least this dealer (Ringwood Vic) supplied cappicino's.

We soon found that the dealer had no cars , the test drive unit was leased I think , and that they already had orders for the pre-xmas boatload on the way, these orders included the new Prado which no one even knows the details of yet but they just want one.

In this enviroment , you have no bargaining power at all , I went in on the fact that recent specials had seen this car go for $69k against the Patrols $53k and all the salesman did was quote the RR price of $83k on road.

We had a quite nice low pressure discussion drank his coffee's and left without even making any attempt to discuss pricing. Its was simply, if you order now, you will probably get one before Xmas.



The Car

The white GXL petrol Cruiser we drove was a nice car with 20k on the clock.
Its was actually very nice, had no vices and simply worked well everywhere.

But it was just a car - plain and simple.

Nothing you could get excited about , no V8 sound or performance, despite some 202kw on tap.

Its good but a little slower than your family sedan , no real difference to our 7 year old patrol, in fact the engine did seem slightly overworked but it was quite quiet about it.
We did a freeway cruise with a good bit back street driving , tried the brakes when the salesman in the car thought he saw a speed camera, and drove it up some kerbing to check it wheel articulation.

It didn't even have seat height raising ability like the Patrol, KDSS is not an option so it would always be fundamentally less capable than our Patrol given the available aftermarket options.

While no petrol Cruisers or the 4800 Patrols are currently available the
one conclusion we could draw out of the whole thing was that while a lovely car it just was not value for money.

Next week we are promised a 200 series diesel drive and I hope it will be more impressive, as will the price be I guess.
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Reply By: Member - DAZA (QLD) - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 09:03

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 09:03
G/Day Robin

You might have to Fly up to QLD to do a Deal on the Toyota, noticed a few at the local Dealer on the Gold Coast, I can check re the Nissan availability re the 4800 petrol should be able to get the Air Fare off the Price LOL LOL.

Cheers
AnswerID: 374029

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 17:35

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 17:35
Don't go to any trouble Daza , but if you happen to hear of any it would be good to know.
I don't like to shop in a short supply market , I rather wait until they want to dump them like perhaps when the new model is imminent
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Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 10:33

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 10:33
Robin, A mate of mine just bought new diesel Sahara , got a $12,000 discount from the dealer and another $6000 off for the govt deal they had going... Is two weeks old and bought in Sydney. Michael
AnswerID: 374042

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 17:33

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 17:33
It seems to me that much more stock was cleared out with end of finnacial years sales than expected Michael.
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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 19:32

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 19:32
NO doubt about it Robin, MY mate did it for that reason.. The dealers dont care about tomorrow, they just wanted a good 2008/2009.. One the first of July, they started worring about 2009/2010 !!! Michael
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Reply By: Gone Bush (WA) - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 10:44

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 10:44
Robin, there are plenty at dealers here in WA, and they will bargain.

By the way, KDSS is standard on all petrol models and is an option on the GXL diesel. It is a delete option, I believe, on the new run of VX and Sahara diesels from July onwards if you want to tick or untick things like sun roofs etc. On these two models juggling all these options allows you to choose the sub fuel tank or not.

If you want a huge amount of info, far more than the dealers know, or are prepared to admit, jump onto this site:

http://www.lcool.org/forum/

You have to register to read the Forum but it's free and theer is a wealth of information on the 200 Series.

cheers

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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 17:18

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 17:18
Thanks Gone Bush , they salesmans a bit embrassed and apparantly read GXL deisel option as meaning only available on diesels, this means that for all practical effect the 200 and the patrol have about the same wheel articulation.

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Reply By: Crackles - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 11:00

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 11:00
It's an unusual situation where there is a global down turn in the ecomemy yet dealers still can't provide vehicles for 5 or 6 months. I can only suggest manufacturers are playing it safe not building them until an order is taken reducung the number of cars they could get caught with on the lot if times get tougher.
I agree also the 200 is poor value for money. There was a large price increase between models with little extra real value to show. The 200 is getting too big for any serious offraoding anyway so is moving into a different class of vehicle (Tow Vehicle) that doesn't suit what many older Cruiser drivers originally used them for.
Cheers Craig...........
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 17:20

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 17:20
Also went to Suzuki today and they have no V6 Vitara's also Craig.

On the size , its hard to no went to stop with each one getting 30mm bigger than the last and it sort of sneeks up on you.
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Follow Up By: Crackles - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 18:34

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 18:34
The Patrol/80 series is about the right size for Australian tracks. The 100 is noticably more difficult to negotiate tight sections & even struggles to fit in the average garage. Being bigger again the 200 can only be more cumbersome making the 30mm larger Playdoe a better family sized option. I was seriously looking at one for a tourer before deciding to hold onto the old 100.
Cheers Craig.......
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Reply By: Dennis Ellery - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 13:07

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 13:07
Gee it must be good! - almost as good as your Patrol.
Careful Robin - don't drive the diesel version or you might be seduced into jioning us on the dark side
Regards Dennis - V8 Troopy (yes I know that the're top heavy)
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Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 14:06

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 14:06
Dennis,

That's a furphy perpetrated by Nissan owners because they can't get a Troopy!

The Troopy is lighter than the equvalent years production wagon, your Troopy is lighter than a 200 Series, mine is lighter than a 100 Series.

The bulk of the mass in a Landcruiser is in the fuel tanks, engine, gearbox, transfer case, chassis and axles.

Therefore all the extra weight in the wagons is the tinsel Toyota or Nissan put inside. All the tinsel is above the chassis.

Which one would have the higher centre of gravity?

The one with the greatest mass above the chassis, the wagons

Geoff

Geoff,

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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 14:59

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 14:59
Hi Geoff,
Robin has a well documented hangup about the 70 series, and larger modelToyotas.
I am only giving him a bit of a stir.
Regards Dennis
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Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 15:09

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 15:09
Hi Dennis,
I too have picked that up in Robin's posts.

I'm just shooting a myth, call it ExploreOz Myth Busters!

Geoff

Geoff,

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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 15:59

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 15:59
Regarding the troopy....could I ask a question please? Too bad, I'm gunna anyway!!!! hahaha

Having 3 boys, I would need the 2nd row of seats fitted (if I were to buy one). I'm wondering how easy/difficult it is to climb into these seats, given they are only a 2 seater? I'm not interested in a "side-saddle 11 seater, although my next question is: can an 11 seater be converted into a 5 seater by chucking the side seats and fitting a cross seat?

Lastly, does anybody know how much it costs to have the extra single door added to the side for the rear passengers please?

Thanks,

Roachie
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 16:18

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 16:18
Sorry, I made a blue..... Part of that question should read.... "I'm wondering how easy/difficult it is to climb into these seats, given they are only a 2 door?
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Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 16:23

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 16:23
Hi Roachie,
I can answer a couple of your questions.

It's a bit of a challenge to get in the back of my 5 seater. The younger you are the easier it is. You've got to step onto the running board and then duck you head if that makes sense.

Passengers side is the easiest as that seat slides further forward than the drivers seat giving a little more room.

You can certainly remove the rear 8 seats in an 11 seater and fit a bench behind the front seats. Obviously you'd need to have an engineer certify it.

In NSW at least the rego on a 5 seater Troopy is a heap cheaper than the 11 seater. (I've owned both)

Remember in the true 5 seater you get a pair of front cloth buckets that are in my opinion quite good for OEM seats. In the 11 seater you get the drivers vinyl bucket and the at best 1 1/2 seater bench for the passengers side.

No idea on the cost of 5th door conversions but in my opinion they'd certainly be the go if you had to use the rear seat regularly.

Geoff

Geoff,

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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 16:58

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 16:58
Thanks Geoff......
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Follow Up By: Sir Kev & Darkie - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 17:03

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 17:03
Roachie,

Just bite the bullet and buy a 4 door V8 Troopy ;)

I am sure Alan would do the conversion for you as well hahaha


Cheers Kev
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He was presented with a difficult decision: push on into the stretching deserts, or return home to his wife.

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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 17:21

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 17:21
The 4 door isn't big enough in the back area for me, otherwise that is the way I'd go....... ;-(
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 17:26

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 17:26
Your stirring Geoff , nothing matches the Patrol wagons low C of G and Published 48 degree tilt table sideslope ability , but its a pity the troppies didn't get the extra width at the front carried all the way down to the back, it would mean then that its worth doing the coil conversion on them and make them so much more desirable.
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 17:27

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 17:27
Hi Dennis

I got nothing against being seduced.
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Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 17:32

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 17:32
Who? Me?

Perish the thought!

I'm deadly serious on the Troopy's having a lower centre of gravity than the Landcruiser wagons.

For the reasons I outlined above.

Have fun with your choice,

Geoff
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Follow Up By: Member - Stuart P (WA) - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 20:30

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 20:30
extra side door will cost about 10 - 15000
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 20:57

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 20:57
Holy chit!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Follow Up By: Member - Mark E (VIC) - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 21:14

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 21:14
I got quoted $8k here in Dandenong, Vic ......drive in - drive out..........

Dunno where the $10 -15k comes from.....probably WA?

Cheers,

Mark
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Follow Up By: Member - Bucky, the "Mexican"- Tuesday, Jul 14, 2009 at 14:53

Tuesday, Jul 14, 2009 at 14:53
Roachie
Are you weakening ?
Troopy ?

Wow another one has just fired up in the old "Wonni" ... No change out of $75k

Then again you get what you pay for !
Hehehehehehehe

Cheers Mate
Bucky
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Follow Up By: Member - Bucky, the "Mexican"- Tuesday, Jul 14, 2009 at 14:53

Tuesday, Jul 14, 2009 at 14:53
Roachie
Are you weakening ?
Troopy ?

Wow another one has just fired up in the old "Wonni" ... No change out of $75k

Then again you get what you pay for !
Hehehehehehehe

Cheers Mate
Bucky
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Reply By: Shaver - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 14:18

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 14:18
Well Rob, I don't know why you think the 200 is lacking in power as I have just come from a BA XR8 , a BF Turbo & a VE SS Commodore to a Petrol 200 Cruiser ( had a 60 Series Turbo) & am very satisfied with it. It would be one of the quietest vehicles to drive that I have come across & performs well.. I ran into a lady the other day that test drove the Mercedes 4WD & very promptly bought the Sahara as it was quieter & rode better. May I suggest another drive. The petrol is quicker to 100ks, but the diesel will pull away after this. I just returned from a 2,000k trip & used 12.3ltrs to 100k (vehicle has done 5,000ks), not too bad for a 3ton vehicle (diesel is better). I am not brand orientated, but you can't compare the Patrol with the Cruiser in regard to overall refinement. By the way V8 sound is great I know,but out of place in the Cruiser. Cheers !
AnswerID: 374065

Follow Up By: Gone Bush (WA) - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 14:37

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 14:37
Shaver, the petrol 200 is surprising a lot of people with its fuel consumption.

I reckon that if you bought the petrol, and put the price difference (about $10K) into a Debit card and used that card only for fuel, you'd be streets ahead.

By the way, my diesel 200, after the 6th gear re-flash, gets 9 litres per 100kays sitting on 100kph (31mpg).

I'm glad I ain't too scared to be lazy
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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 15:01

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 15:01
Even more in front when you consider the resale value too.
Regards Dennis
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Follow Up By: Shaver - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 15:02

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 15:02
I agree Gone Bush in regard to the extra $10,000 plus $2,500 for KDSS on the diesel, so $12,500 goes a long way. I expect the consumption to improve with more K's on the clock ! Any success selling the Van yet ?
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Follow Up By: Gone Bush (WA) - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 16:39

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 16:39
Yes Shaver, the van went to a couple in a nearby suburb.

They are taking it away up to the Pilbara today to try it out.

Now I have to sit here drumming my fingers until September when we pick up the new one in QLD. We'll take it out to the Gathering at St George and then spend a month or more in QLD doing the tourist thing and a bit of exploring.

And then a month or so coming home to WA in time for Xmas.

Can't wait. I hate WA's winter storms and we've had a couple this season.

I'm glad I ain't too scared to be lazy
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 17:50

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 17:50
Hi Guys

I haven't been able to register on Lcool 200 series although I am on 80 series offshoot.

Shaver , no I don't mean to say than the 200 is lacking , its more that its not different than my existing Patrol.
Your 12.3 on a touring trip is really pretty good , never cracked 14 on my Patrol.

I don't have the data , but I thought that 200 petrol was in 10 secs to 100kmh bracket and the diesel was in 8 secs bracket , love to know for sure.

With luck I drive the diesel next week.















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Follow Up By: Shaver - Sunday, Jul 12, 2009 at 07:31

Sunday, Jul 12, 2009 at 07:31
Yes Robin the Diesels are good, but 8secs might be stretching the friendship ! The diesel has a momentry lag before spooling up which allows the Petrol to get a bit of a leg start. The petrol is very deceiving in it's pickup, but then again if you want sports car performance buy a Porche 4WD.
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Sunday, Jul 12, 2009 at 09:09

Sunday, Jul 12, 2009 at 09:09
I found the Porsche Cayenne to be a little short on wheel articulation - however interestingly it is the only other car that can match the Patrols 48 degree sideslopw ability.
When my brother in law did a test drive up the Canning in one he had to take 11 jerry cars , swap the 20 inch wheels as well to 18's after breaking one and even then was so concerned about spares and ended up driving it not much faster than a cruiser.
However did find they had an incredible ability to create a hole in traffic around town.
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Follow Up By: Shaver - Sunday, Jul 12, 2009 at 10:20

Sunday, Jul 12, 2009 at 10:20
Robin ! If you are interested in wheel articulation have a look at You Tube & you will see what KDSS can do in conjunction with Crawl Control. Some are over large boulders, sand, snow & other imaginable things. You won't see a "Standard Patrol " even come close to doing this & then have the ability to crawl out of it.
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Monday, Jul 13, 2009 at 12:59

Monday, Jul 13, 2009 at 12:59
Found the data now

200 series diesel 8.2 secs to 100
100 series diesel 14.2
100 petrol 10
GU 4800 patrol ` 9.9
200 series petrol ` 9.5
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Follow Up By: Boobook2 - Monday, Jul 13, 2009 at 14:47

Monday, Jul 13, 2009 at 14:47
Also Robin, the 200 is specified for 45 degrees, not quite 48 but still more than I would be comfortable with.
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Reply By: Member - The Bushwhackers -NSW - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 16:52

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 16:52
Hi Robin, just to get back to the topic of your post - What recession?
The reason for your inability to get a decent variety of vehicles to test and compare is directly due to the Global Financial Crisis (I hate that term, sounds overused).
Since the poo hit the fan with those greedy Yankee stockbrokers buying toxic loan packages (and planning on making a squillion without having to work for it), G.E & GMAC financial divisions have backed out of their role of providing finance to the motor industry. Thus to put cars on the lot would mean that car dealerships would have to use their own money, and regardless of how greedy people think car dealers are, not many would have the necessary dollars to do this. End result is a lose-lose situation.... bugger all cars to chose from and compare, so you don't buy anything, the dealers take this as a sign that there is insufficient demand, so they can't warrant spending money on 'spec' vehicles for you to test drive. This of course goes all the way back to the manufacturers, who have cut production (and stock) for the same reasons, so you would have to wait for a vehicle if you ordered one. Round and round it goes, and nobody wins, or is even happy.
Even Honda dropped out of Formula One, no money to play!
Yes, I reckon we can blame the greedy sharemarket people for a lot of our problems at this time.
Cheers and happy hunting, Dave
AnswerID: 374073

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 17:30

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 17:30
Yeah that was the topic was'nt it Dave,

I was wondering if after finding Suzy out of stock today as well, if all the big scares from end of last caused advanced orders for stock to be reduced and then Australia wasn't so badly hit as expected.
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Reply By: Flywest - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 17:33

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 17:33
The 200 series Sahara diesel that I test drove was nothing short of exquisite.

The lil blond lass sales gal selling it was likewise very nicely refined indeed!

The vehicle drove like a limousine - and I am used to driving the 80 series which i like and the F 250 which is in a similar price range and Hp towing/engine capacity range.

I couldn't fault it - honestly.

Had I the spare cash - I would buy one without hesitation, BUT I do have a few reservations based on early oil consumption issues I've read about.

I reckon a second or 3rd year model might be better!

Cheers

AnswerID: 374075

Follow Up By: Member - John Baas (WA) - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 19:21

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 19:21
Toyota have a free fix for this - takes about 20mins in service.

This was the only problem i have experienced so far in 15 months with my 200 diesel. Great machine; just love driving it.

I've just had the free 6th gear upgrade done as well; looking fwd to the 9l/100kms that GB claims when I head to the Territory next month.

Cheers.
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Follow Up By: warfer69 - Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 20:03

Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 at 20:03
***The lil blond lass sales gal selling it was likewise very nicely refined indeed!**

She's not supposed to be sitting on your lap while your test driving.....
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Follow Up By: Shaver - Sunday, Jul 12, 2009 at 07:44

Sunday, Jul 12, 2009 at 07:44
I just drove the the brother in laws BA FAIRLANE GHIA & I can assure you that the 200 Series is definately more refined & quieter, in fact it makes the Ford sound like a Barina ( I have one ).
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