Lunatics ( ? ) at the wheel...coming to a road near you!!

Daza
Yes you are right about the EWs. And to tell the truth what about the innocent bystanders....I have pulled a couple of guys out of accidents caused by their own stupidity and the sight of it will always be on my mind!

But how do you determine which of the youngsters are the ones to target before it happens??

"But how do you determine which of the youngsters are the ones to target before it happens??"

Easy - all of them.

Whats needed is more involvement by "innocent bystanders" so they can take the message home to their own kids - of the dangers of driving in a stupid manner.

Ask the parents, we should know best, my oldest son is a real mellow driver like my brother used to be. My youngest son is going to be a nut like i was.
Being their father for 16 and 18 years i know that for a fact.
Cheers.

LOL....Only logical thing to do....

Gee...that helps people. Don't you care about people dying ?? No matter who they are ???

Dunco-if it comes down to hoons (p+ssheads-boyracers etc) doing this sort of thing as they please, and my family plodding along the road and being in the way? Ill give them the powerpole anyday.
Their parents can worry about them, I'll worry about mine.

The lower age has been ridiculous ... ever since the limits were reduced as a vote chasing exercise.

A hard one to try and answer. At 18 they can also be called upon to go and fight for there country so its a bit hard to say they can,t drive or have a beer.
I know that a lot training is done before going overseas (been there done that)
so that is probibly whats needed before they are allowed behind the wheel of a Vehicle.
Duke

Not a bad idea but unfortunately it doesn't stop people speeding, which seems to be the cause of many of these crashes :(

Great idea Give kids a place to take controlled risks and have a challenge.

If they can get it out of their systems and learn skills at the same time it is bonus for everyone.

Every school should have access to advanced driving courses as well.

IMHO .... Every high school should have at least one lesson a week on vehicle fundamentals / roadrules starting in grade 8.

Some sort of physical driver training should occur monthly (?) as of grade 10.

Pass percentages could reflected in the license endorsing / issue date.

Bit stupid to follow up my own post, but I had a thought.
Why are people taught by a driving school to pass a driving test.
Should the focus not be on actually learning to drive, rather than passing a test?

It appears to me that this no longer takes place. Young people are not educated on responsibility, courtesy, and practical ways to stay safe.
(keep left unless overtaking, slow down in the rain, keep music to a level where you can hear other road users, and above all it is a transport mechanism not a damn racetrack)
god I sound old..............I'm only 34, but boy has my attitude changed in the last 10 years.

My thoughts go out to the families of those young lives lost.

" Why are people taught by a driving school to pass a driving test.
Should the focus not be on actually learning to drive, rather than passing a test? "


Thanks Briann532 ....

I thought I was the only heretic to hold the belief you posted in your followup. Its a strange method of allowing novices in killing machines, to share public space isnt it ?

Keep your posted thoughts ... and other practicalities ... in mind when it comes your turn to start driving instruction of your younguns, and they will have as good a chance on the road as possible.

Just remember they can start "learning" about driving, well before license age ... e.g.

Just a little practical knowledge of brakes and suspension ... drummed in at an early age ... will keep them thinking of vehicle handling characteristics at various speeds on corners and under braking ... once they are behind the wheel.

Good to see you gave a thought for the families of those in that accident as well.

Brian,

I don't believe the whole "people taught by a driving school to pass a driving test" idea. I don't think that is the case. I don't believe that an ignorant 19 year old in 1979 was a better driver than on ignorant 19 year old in 2009.

I think this idea is only pushed by cheap talk back radio with no evidence behind it.

Being just slightly older then you, I would imagine we did our lessons and tests around the same time. If you remember, back then, the same rhetoric was used. So the politicians introduced a whole bunch of new requirements, such as having your learners for a minimum of 12 months, logbooks, nightime driving, P plates for 3 years etc. The driving instructors were happy with the changes because that meant learners had to have more lessons. Back in our day there was no requirement to have any professional lessons, and kids were often taught by incompetent parents in the shopping centre carpark.

So I think the evidence shows the opposite to the myth.
Cheers

I was an ignorant 19yo "several" years before 1979.

"Professional" instruction paid for at that time was only to attain testing standards.

Thankfully ... real "professional" instruction had been provided by family and friends family for a number of years prior.

This is not an issue that can be simply dealt with by imposing higher ages limits or mandating more driving lessons or hours behind the wheel. It is an irresponsible attitude that enables a person to drive in such a manner on a public road. A person that will drive while drunk and/or at excessive speeds shows bad judgement and will take many other unacceptable risks. You'll never reduce the frequency of this type of incident until you fix the attitude problem (which would also fix a whole swag of other problems). My attitude to driving was (still is!) the area that my parents spent most of their effort when teaching me to drive, and it began in teaching by example - even before I was learning to walk.

What attitudes to driving are your children learning from the examples set by drivers the observe (parents, uncles/aunts, friends etc.), or from what they see to be acceptable on the TV?

Young people ( Especially males ) do not understand the concept of mortality before the age of 25.

The human brain just does not fully understand that death is final at that age.

Sadly there is not much that can be done about that, Military service uses that to their advantage as young troops are more willing to take risks than older ones.


From experience give kids controlled risks and challenges. let them test their limits.

Remember to become old and wise you do first have to be young and stupid !

Hi Briann,
I have never believed in the old saying "Do as I say not as I do".
Kids learn pretty much of every thing from example.
If you give the dog a kick as you walk past instead of a pat little Jhonnie thinks thats acceptable behaviour.
If You carry on like a pork chop & hurl abuse etc at some drongo that cut you off, Little Jhonnie thinks thats acceptable behaviour.
Jump in the car & go get a packet of smokes on a sat a/noon (only had 3 beers) Yep little Jhonnie thinks thats acceptable behaviour. Enjoy your kids. I know I enjoyed growing up with mine & now Im enjoying growing up again with my Grandkids.
Regards Mike.

Thanks Mike - that's kind of what I was trying to say.

Since you don't like the saying "Do as I say, not as I do" (which never really works anyway), you might like my Dad's favourite saying instead: "What you do shouts so loudly I can't hear a word you're saying"

Not sure about other states, but here in SA the obtaining of a license is almost a case of cutting out the coupon on the back of the Corn Flakes packet...

Okay, so the child (and they ARE still children @ 16.5 years) has to do 50 hours of practical driving on "L" plates, 10 hours of which has to be at night.

I did this with my son (now 20 and living in Queanbeyan). I paid for 6 x 1 hour professional lessons @ $50- each for him and I did the other 44 hours with him myself. The fact that I "could have" simply just signed-off on the learner's log book means that he could potentially got his license without doing ANY training practically.

The actual granting of his license was based mainly on the log book I had signed him off on over a 6 month period.

I often wonder if anybody actually just "fudges" the figures in the log book; after all, it is a costly process driving around the countryside for 50 hours.....some people might think it is not worth the effort and cost.

I am of the opinion that learners should do the same learning that my son did (I think it's recently been increased to 100 hours here by the way).... BUT... before obtaining the license they should be required to demonstrate competence in ALL driving conditions that they are likely to encounter.

This would require them to drive on a track with a wet skid pan, through a series of witches hats, emergency braking situations etc.

The problem is (amongst other things) that they get their licence under "ideal" conditions. In my sons case, because we live in a country town, he never learnt how to drive along a 3 lane freeway with traffic lights and how to change lanes safely etc. I did take him out during the wet weather (not all that frequent here in SA....hehehehe).

So, once he got his P plates, he was on his own..... all the best mate!!!

There's gotta be a better way and i think the idea of making it a compulsory subject at school from year 8 is a good one. They could dispense with ancient history from the curriculum or something else equally useless.....

Roachie

We live at the back of a Church Primary school and are constantly amazed at the actions of the parents, ( The school parents are good it is the parents attending school sporting events that cause the problems. )

They will happily park illegally endangering children and hindering access for the locals, if you politely ask them "Could you please park legally as you are causing a risk to children" you are often greeted with a stream of abuse and threats allong the lines of "I CAN *&*&%$@ WELL PARK WHERE I @*&^%#% LIKE AND YOU CAN ^%$*^&%% WELL (*&^$^%# OFF !!!!"

All this in front of young children. Small wonder these children grow up to believe laws do not apply to them and they can do whatever they like.

I have on occasion mentioned to the children " remember this kids and next time Mum or Dad asks you to do something you can tell them the same things they just told me. It's OK your parents believe you don't have to do what the law says"

That usually gets another torrent of abuse telling me I am setting a bad example for their kids !!!!!!!!

for those who haven't seen the news about this crash, here's a link with photos of the crash scene
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/photogallery/queensland/woman-dead-in-horror-smash/20090723-dtzx.html?selectedImage=0

Exactly.

1 hour driving lessons cannot teach courtesy and attitude. By the time a kid sits for their first driving lesson, they've had thousands of hours of lessons on how to behave in a car.

R.

So true - we've our first 'driving lessons' before we even know how to walk (simply by observing our parents' attitude to driving).

Just following your line of thought D200Dug ....

Is perhaps cutting down those naturally challenging, good climbing trees in a schoolyard ... to make way for OH&S approved playgyms and shade cloth ... one of our sillier choices as an over protective society ?

Those as well

People learned when you do dumb stuff you get hurt

and it did hurt !!!

Now kids grow up not knowing anything about actions and consequences

Hurting is nescessary.

Not so much it is debilitating of course tho.

Some of my most hilarious moments these days are watching younger parents explaining to a 3yr old why not to touch the "hot thing" .... A whole 15min "discussion" in some cases ... with a 3yr old ..... LOLOL

The kids reaching out with a finger to test ... not grab the soup pot off the stove with both hands and run with it ....

Just get the burn cream out of the firstaid kit for cripes sake.

margo " Don;t touch the iron it is hot and it will hurt

#1 son then aged 3 sticks finger on iron and screams

margo "Told you" then hugs ;-)

Very simple

D200Dug - it's not the first suggestion I've heard of that. I've heard OH&S managers on building sites say that young people are often not capable of making a quick mental risk assessment before doing something - they haven't learned to think "if I do this, what could go wrong? How likely is it to go wrong? And what is the potential damage/injury?" ie. is this worth the risk?

Some have attributed this to our wrapping of children in cotton-wool - they never have to learn to think of consequences because we've made everything so safe that children simply can't hurt themselves at the local playground, falling out of a tree, etc.

No, I'm not saying that we shouldn't try to prevent injuries - some household 'accidents' cause serious long-term/permanent injuries (or death) but a finger on a hot iron is a very quick, simple, relatively harmless but memorable lesson!