You 've got to love these "Permits to Traverse Aboriginal Land"

One land council ... ( insert rolling eyes emoticon here. )

Strange how the tribal rivalry prevents this occurring, yet ...

They are all "one people"" and manage to group themselves under a flag of no historical - or even "dreamtime" importance with ... two ??? ... stated reasons for the colours chosen.

One good thing about them being distinctly different groups is the variations in the art styles of the past ....

Give it a break - its not a race thing - predudice abounds in these statements.

Look at our own back yard and our national parks in every State all have different fees and conditions and ways to get them.

Get off the race debate,

Cheers Tony

Tony ....

Have another read ....

Its not a "us" and "them" comment ...

Its a "them" and "them" comment ...

As anyone who who has had dealings with landcouncils BEYOND getting travel permits would understand.

I even appreciate their differences ... in some cases such as art styles.

Oz Troopy I have had dealings and lived in the communities - Yes there is troubles but you still have to get a permit.

The one land council to fit all!

Why we have various state and local government - they do not always see eye to eye etc.

You are picking on a race.

Cheers

Cheers Tony.

Well Tony ... I'll try again ...

Yes .. I roll my my eyes at the thought of "one land council" ... and gave a very factual reason for it - from experience.

I also roll my eyes at the thoughts of the abolishment of the australian States .... yet that too, is something I am in favour of ... So I guess by making that statement - I am now rascist towards myself and other white australians ??? ( insert rolling eyes emoticon here )

Primarily ... The topic is on getting permits .... and I think I stated my non-rascist position in that regard in this post.

FollowupID: 647207 Submitted: Friday, Aug 21, 2009 at 13:35

Just to ensure that you dont read it with a bleeding heart, civil libertarian type attitude ... Aboriginal homes, their Traditional communities, their "Religious" locations etc, deserve privacy and respect .... The same as ours do.

A public funded and gazetted road is - or better be ... for the use of all ... as is, the public funded emergency services facilities of ANY community ...... and there should be no need for permits to use them.

If those public funded roads and facilities are not for the use of all ... Then there is definitely some rascism occurring.

If there are issues with travellers using a particular road ... It should be closed to them, and an alternative provided ... making it no different to using other streets in lieu of a toll road in sydney.

You keep on about NPWS fees .... pfffft .... One pays a fee/has a permit to use the facilities (or lack of) ... not to use a gazetted road, that the park happens to have boundaries on either side of.

Give the rascism line a miss ... as the more you go on about it ... the bigger proponent of it you appear to be.

OzTroopy - Yes good try :-)

You've got to love these "Permits to Traverse Aboriginal Land"

The heading says it all, it is not targeting permits in general, it is directed at specific permit and a group.Why!

You will always hear "I'm not prejudiced, but!" And a disclaimer was put in to the thread :-)

So we will have to disagree, I think threads of this nature are targeting a group, you do not. So be it and there is no harm in expressing an opinion.

Cheers Tony

"The heading says it all, it is not targeting permits in general, it is directed at specific permit and a group.Why!"

Ummm Errr??? Maybe Tony because its largely only roads that cross Aboriginal lands that require permits??

Have not been asked "YET" by the Vic Government to have a permit to drive over the Westgate Bridge.

The thread targets a system that just happens to be administered by various Aboriginal groups, nothing racist about that to my knowledge?

Expressing opinions and disagreeing is fine ... and appreciate the reply ... Was wondering when it was my turn (insert winking emoticon here ... LOL )

How can it be "targetting " a group ...

Whats wrong with mentioning landcouncils ... as per your post:
FollowupID: 647313 Submitted: Saturday, Aug 22, 2009 at 10:03

If you need a permit from an aboriginal landcouncil to travel on a taxpayer funded road in an area that has specific aboriginal purpose, land zoning on either side of it ....................

Who else are you going to apply for the permit from ... or talk about.

The Polish Refugee Society for Survivors of the Holocaust ????

OMG ... now Ive gone and upset the europeans .... ooops .... and christians .... pfffft

The mistaken assumption that mentioning the word ... aboriginal ... or anything associated with them - constitutes racism ... is part of the reason this country is so messed up in regard to resolving the white australian/black australian situation ... IMHO

Racism is when you put down a person or group for who they are ... NOT ... what they do ... or how they do it.

"money well spent" on what?? A ranger checking for permits??

Ooopps was meant to be a follow up to u

Warfer69..........Can I ask how come you know how much the fine is for flashing yourself down the beach?????????????

Is that from your own experience????????

Sorry, but you left your self wide open there..........lol

Karen.

I was going to retire as a flasher but decided to stick it out for another year, lol

Look Karen i heard it on the radio,or was it the local newspaper ????,Oh ok come closer to the computer screen,arrgh a bit closer now, just between you and i i'm getting sykeeoligikal help on a monthly basis now summers coming on...lol


**I was going to retire as a flasher but decided to stick it out for another year**

Was sternly warned if i did that it would be shot off...lol


Cheers Guys


Disclaimer: Only Joking.

If you had the permit you could have shown it at the toll both and told them you were transiting to the GCR and beyond.

No park entry cost applies.

Yes John that saved us a park entry fee as well

Why do people complain - why not just do it?

Cheers Tony

I'm not complaining about permits Tony - simply stating what my experience was. When you drive the GCR from Ulura to Leonora in a day...I'm not exactly site seeing and I can't see why I should pay for a permit to drive on a public (taxpayer funded) road when I didn't even stop for fuel. Remember I did the right thing and went to the cop shop and asked about the permit and followed the instructions/info given.

I complained about the Nat Park entrance fee cause I didn't even drive around the Rock simply turned off to the GCR and kept going. Paying $40 odd dollars for driving a bit of bitumen is a bit steep in my opinion.

So Tony did you go and look at the Rock??? If so (I'm pretty sure you would have) why did you cheat the Nat Parks of their money?? The money for the GCR permit and the Nat Park fee are for 2 totally different things. Its a bit like saying because you payed the toll to cross the Gateway Bridge you should get into Dreamworld for free......

Hi

I have been thinking about travelling the GCR for some time and was aware that permits were required.

Whilst I do not agree that they should be necessary to travel on any public road I will play the game.

Do I understand it correctly in that I am also required to pay the entrance fee to the national park whilst just passing through. As I understand it the fee to the park is $25 per person and I would most assuredly be unhappy about parting with that amount of money while passing through.

Is there an alternative route.

Regards

Rowdy
If you are travelling West to East you won't have a problem at the Uluru toll gate, just drive past no stopping on the exit and thats it.

If driving East to West you will have to stop at the toll gate and normally pay the park entry fee.
If you hold a permit to travel the GCR then just show the toll operator and tell them you are transiting the park to the GCR and no issues, no park entry fee.

If you happen to stop at the rock for a look see on the way past then no one will lose any sleep over it I'm sure :-))

Hope this helps.

Hughesy - Sorry mate - That reply was not directed at you but at this thread always coming up when all you have to do is get the permit. You were given bad info if you had a permit you could have gone through without paying.

You were angry at me when you replied, but answers to your questions below

"So Tony did you go and look at the Rock???" No I did not go look at the rock what I saw from the highway and that was good enough for us.

"why did you cheat the Nat Parks of their money??" Jumped to conclusions on that one did we not? :-)

It is a bit commercial in there for us to stay and we will respect the wishes and would not climb. One day would not mind to walk around it though.

Image Could Not Be Found

Image Could Not Be Found

Sorry Tony for jumping to conclusions about you visiting the Rock.

I can say you'd (and me on that occassion) be one of very few people who go all that way and not actually go to the rock.

I still think its wrong that the permit can get you access to the rock when that money doesn't go to keeping up the facilities etc that the Nat Parks provide. And the permit money doesn't go to maintaining the GCR.

I have no issues paying Nat Park fees and always use the old honesty box even when I know I'll probably not even see another car let alone a Ranger.....because that money is being used to maintain and provide things that I will see/use.

Anyway happy travels mate.

heh heh .....

I think the meanderings of Burke and Wills and other explorers might be a different kettle of fish .... but

Just imagine the hue and cry in the cities - if the required permit system for gazetted roads like "out there" was applied to suburban streets by individual shires ?.

If there is a location with govt (taxpayer funded) service facilities and access roads provided ... there is no legal or moral reason for permits to be required IMHO.

Individuals can wander around outside ( and inside it seems these days ) YOUR home / property boundarys, day and night legally .... What makes those "other" properties any different.

OzTroopy

I like your response.

I find it hard, as a REAL AUSTRALIAN, to have to pay for permits etc to travel a country that I was born in and served in the defence forces to defend with my life, yet have to pay some beaurocrat system for the purpose of traveling around this great country.

I think somebody is just having a lend of us....

Malcolm

Malcolm

So by serving in the defense forces, makes you better the everyone else? (REAL AUSTRALIAN)> So the rest of us poor old folk that just had to work for a living (not putting our life's on the line), we have to pay??

I'm sure the money goes to the upkeep of most of the places we have to pay for,

Cheers

Richard

As an ex-artilleryman I find it strange that ppl continue to to use the words, "to defend with my life", well, what do you expect when you join a military establishment.
When I joined I had no qualms about dying, its a fact, I just didn't want to be there when it happened.
I was totally cheesed off when the sailors from the Melbourne got compensation, for what, accidents in peace-time, what about all our personel whom died in the many wars, do they get compensated.

I watched Saving Private Ryan, and the first 15 mins was enough to not join the Army, what a waste of lives, and many US veterans were crying when they came out of the theatre as it was so close to the truth.

Buggerboggedagain

Well when I joined the Army, that I could die, I suppose, was also the last thing on my mind. You're correct. We did put our life on the line and never thought anything of it. We just got on and did our job.

Richard .... real Australian was meant to reflect that I come from a long list of native Australians not anything to do with the defence forces. Maybe I had one ot two too many whilst I was writing. Who knows. LOL

It still gets up my nose that we "have to pay some beaurocrat system for the purpose of traveling around this great country". I paid my taxes. In the past, many moons ago, a % of these were used to maintain our roads and national parks. But then some beauracrat found a way of increasing revenue - the user pays principle. If you don't want to pay - don't use it!! There I said it before anybody else tried to get that one in.

Now having to pay Land Councils to just travel through OUR land is a different issue. IMHO, That is just a pure grab for $$$$.

Malcolm

As an ex-artilleryman I find it offensive that black Aussie soldiers are welcomed to fight Aussie wars, but when it comes to rewards, are politely forgotten.
I believe only one black was awarded the VC. Every soldier who returned home from active service overseas in WW 1 was given 5 acres of land to use as he wished, except the poor bloody blackfellow. It really puzzles me why any native Australian would bother with bigots of our military codes, they treat them like crap as much as USA armed services,cooks and machine-gun fodder.

I would like to award all black service personel with free entry to all National Parks and reserves, better than having to pay again for what is rightly yours.

BBA, I'm interested in your statement: 'Every soldier who returned home from active service overseas in WW 1 was given 5 acres of land to use as he wished, except the poor bloody blackfellow.'

My Grandfather was white and and a WWI veteran and as far as I know, got no '5 acres of land to use as he wished'

I think you may be referring to the 'Returned Soldiers Settlement Schemes'. These were schemes enacted separately by the States - not the Commonwealth. The schemes allowed returned soldiers to purchase land in designated areas with money borrowed from the government at low (no?) interest.

The schemes were largely seen to be a failure and were widely regarded as a Government Fiasco. Land used was mostly very poor, some was flood prone, other was in perpetual drought. Prices charged to returned soldiers were sometimes higher than market prices. Very few soldiers we able to take advantage of the schemes in a successful way. Many lost a lot of money and all hope through the schemes. There were a number of Royal Commissions in 1925 and 1926 into the schemes which pretty much found them to have been a failure and a cause of great hardship to the majority of soldiers who took part.

Use Google and I think you will find I am right.

If you have other information, perhaps I can still claim the 5 acres my Grandfather missed out on.

Norm C

Thankyou Norm, your right of course, I just read about it in The Daily Telegraph History Page many many years ago, it just stuck in my head about the rewards for white soldiers but not the blacks.

Thanx for the update

Don’t be like that!

I use posts like this to work out who to ignore.

It’s a good way of working out those who are intellectually challenged, educationally disadvantaged, ethically corrupt and morally bankrupt.

Easier to identify them and ignore them and their opinions henceforth; the fact that they have a Pavlovian response to express such immediate kneejerk responses from the depth of their carefully considered opinions, based on fact and deliberation of all available data indicates the value of the opinions they choose to exhibit

Very similar to the Pavlovian response that my Golden Retriever exhibits when I open the pantry door

At least my Golden Retriever is capable of responding to training and is a good companion I’m happy to spend time with

Can't say I've noticed anything here that could be construed as remotely racist. There've been plenty of posts on here complaining about National Park fees and road toll fees as well. I don't recall your Golden Retriever's Pavlovian response then. Climb down mate. You're the one with jerky knees - I think there'a bit of frustration abroad with BUREAUCRACY not race.

With you Steve.

I pride myself as being a hard drinking, redneck bigot.
Apart from a couple of responders who are trying to read more into this than what is written, I cant see anything remotely racial.

Got to go now, MENSA are breaking down my door.
Suppose I'd better join and shut them up....hehehe.


Cheers.....WOOF - WOOF.

The whole concept of the thread fellows - If these were various national parks you would need a permit and in some places you would pay heaps.

Why complain and add all the innuendos, (rolling of eyes, dealing with land councils etc)because this is what the reply's are doing.

It is their land, a permit system has been devised, respect the right of them to do it and get your permit.

For gosh sake they do not even charge so how hard is it to do the right thing?

Tony, just having a lend of you mate.

I think 99% of us do do the right thing and check, before travelling, whether a permit is required. From my understanding, most seem to be questioning the actual purpose of a permit and how it relates to outback travel in this day and age.

Cheers.....Lionel.

Tony they do charge for some.

Why blame Exploroz??
Do you think predudice of any sort is only found here??

"Prejudice" need to proof read before posting.

Most rational idea in this thread!

I dislike having to get a permit to cross the Sydney Harbour Bridge, but I live with it... ;)

If everyone got a permit as required it would at least give good statistics on travel trends and road usage in the area. Always good to get info if you can.

This in turn would allow appropriate dollars to be directed to the upgrade and maintenance of these roads.

I agree its land for all, but ownership is a fact of life, there are millions that own a bit of Australia. Their legal given land just happens to be where a lot of people want to drive.

There are tons of gazetted roads throughout Australia closed to the public that cross private lands - all we have to do is get a permit to drive the ones crossing aboriginal land.

Personally I would pay owners of land if I could drive on some of their Gazetted roads here in QLD, there are many great drives and places not open to us.

get outmore - I would suggest they are telling you there is no mechanical workshops available in the communities, so don't rely on help.

But hey I am sure the bush mechanics would have a go - but would you let them? that would be more the question!

I have helped them and they have helped me, this is another us and them comment.

Make one up, no one will ask for it anyway.

If they do then show them the permit and see if they actually look at the rego plate and pick up the difference.

Just had an e-mail from the DIA saying just put 'hire vehicle' in the vehicle details section.

Sorted :)

maybe -but as we all know permits and the like only inconvenience those wanting to do the right thing.

i think the Aboriginals would be begging cook back when the japanese,chinese or the portugese came marching in anyway