How would You recover this car ?

Submitted: Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 12:49
ThreadID: 73521 Views:6860 Replies:16 FollowUps:31
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Tough 4 day weekend for us as we barely got out of a valley with nasty rock ledges on both sides, then were given keys of a H2 hummer with instructions to test it throughly , then did a big end on a new 450 injected trail bike but before all this we came across this rather shaken up driver just after the police found him with his Troppy an inch from a rollover and potential serious consequences.

The question I would like to ask is how would you rescue him , or would you ?


Image Could Not Be Found


First, the scene on the road to Wren's flat south of Jamieson in Victoria.

A large tree (1 meter diamemter) was down across the road blocking it and end of the tree went over a very steep embankment.
The driver attempted to drive over the tree , got his front wheels over and then the back hit and the rear end slid on the bark and went over the road edge and it almost rolled but was just caught by another part of the tree.

What the picture doesn't show is that the tree was broken in two near the embankemt but was not severed (important) the broken section over the embankment was facing forward such that the tree formed an L shape , as the car began to rollover, the back of the car rotated into the tree with the back wheel hitting it stopping the roll and suspending the cars rear above the ground with the back wheel pressed against the tree.

The key point in this situation was that cutting out the tree section on the road way would release the section hanging over the edge and it would drop taking the car with it.

We arrived a few minutes later to find the driver and police from a 3lt Nissan patrol discussing and deciding that the troppy could not be rescued by a standard winch pull as this would pull the car forward away from the part of the tree that was supporting it and it would roll a long way down the steep slope.

They decided that the solution was to get in a heavy haulage winch truck and with use of two winches attached to trees on the opposite bank, to pull the car fully broadside onto the road proper. Then cut out the tree from under it.

The police officer, must have been in these situations before, he said
that the tow truck would take some hours and then pulled out a little griller
placed it in the centre of the road, light a small fire, and proceeded to BBQ
some sausages.

We though we knew a short cut around this road block and weren't going to wait so we headed off on our own ill-fated expedition.


I thought about how I would recover the car using just the cars winch and stuff that you would normally carry.
I figured the problem was you could not pull along the road as a roll would occur and I agreed you needed to pull sideways but the road was to narrow to position a car such that you could pull the troppy away from the edge.
I would have wrapped my short winch strap around the huge trunk of the tree to the left of the picture and attached my small 40mm winch pulley there.
This would have enabled a pull along the length of the tree with the rope attached to the front of the Troppy which would have swung it around.
But would this rotation have been enough to allow the back end to drop on the ground such that it didn't roll ?

Would you have allowed my approach - or would you suggest a better way ?
(assuming the police and other facilites were not available of course , otherwise one would wait and eat some tax payer funded sausages).
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Reply By: Member - ross m (WA) - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 13:35

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 13:35
A crane would be the surest and safest but I think a block and tackle attached to the side to stop it rolling down the slope and a winch rope at the front to pull it forward would have done it
AnswerID: 389949

Follow Up By: Member - Scoof (SA) - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 14:39

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 14:39
I second that small crane , pick and carry crane job.

Looks a bit scarey I reckon he would of found out the adrenalin is brown. LOL

Cheers Scoof . :-)
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Reply By: Member - Timbo - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 13:37

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 13:37
Yes, that was my first question - why didn't you stay to enjoy some snags?! :-)

A couple of years back I assisted in the recovery of a 100-Series 'Cruiser in a very similar situation - the driver was descending a wet clay hill when the car slipped sideways off a conservation mound - thankfully it got hung up before it went too far! It was never seemed quite as precarious as the situation you've described!

It's impossible to get a real feel for the situation from just one photo, but after reading your description as well, I would consider the following action:

First, I would try to secure the vehicle so that it was less precarious - this might mean using my large nylon rope attached as high up on the vehicle as possible at front and rear (might be upper part of bull bar and the tray) and tied to solid anchors on the opposite side of the road (hopefully there are some available!).

Second, from the description you have given, it would seem the safest way to recover the vehicle would be similar to the reverse of what it did to get into the fix. I would attach my hand winch to the rear of the vehicle and try to pull it back along the log that it slid down initially. NOTE: even if I had an electric winch on the front of my car, I would not attach it directly to the 'Cruiser in case it rolled - there is a risk of also dragging the recovering vehicle down the embankment too. If a vehicle mounted winch was all you had, you could use a snatch block on the winch cable - the snatch block would be attached to an anchor on the 'up side' of the road directly across from the rear of the 'Cruiser and the recovering vehicle would be on the road - preferably behind the 'Cruiser.

Once the 'Cruiser was pulled back onto the road, I would retie the nylon rope as tight as I could (to prevent the 'Cruiser sliding down the log again) and then would suggest a gentle pull/tow from behind to get it back on terra firma (back over the log to where it was before the driver attempted the manoeuvre around/over the fallen tree).

In summary, I agree that it seems better to pull the 'Cruiser sideways back onto the road, but I think it is necessary to first secure at least the end that you are not winching as effectively as possible (as you've suggested: pulling on one end could cause the other end to swing/drop). I don't see any reason to cut away the tree until the 'Cruiser is out of the way, just use the winch to reverse the manoeuvre that got it into the situation.
AnswerID: 389951

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 18:03

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 18:03
Should have said access from photo side only Timbo . but with one rear wheel off ground I would only have considered from the front.

I think the police officer has commented on access in the area before on explore Oz and I would have got into an arguement pretty quickly if I'd stayed there , anyway the sun was shining and there were other tracks to drive.
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Follow Up By: Member - Timbo - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 18:30

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 18:30
Actually you did say earlier that you couldn't get around the 'obstacle' (although probably obvious - otherwise Mr 'Cruiser probably would have taken the other way!) - I just saw the white car behind and assumed it was yours (couldn't really see what it was).

I'd assumed it would be unwise to attempt a forwards recovery as it seemed that would only move the 'Cruiser off the "L" part of the log which you'd said was the only thing preventing it from falling to a miserable death.

"...the sun was shining and there were other tracks to drive." Good point, best not get your hands dirty in a problem like that! :-) And you never know, you could do everything possible, have it go wrong and then the guy (and his insurance company) come after you saying "It was all good until Robin .... ". Also, in the incident I referred to in my reply, the guy said he'd forgotten to bring his gear so I had to haul out mine in the mud. He said thanks at the end but certainly didn't offer to help clean everything up later. I should have checked his car first - he probably had a full kit but didn't want to get it dirty, especially if this sucker would volunteer his kit! :-)

I just wish I got out as often as you...
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Reply By: Member - Tony (ACT) - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 13:37

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 13:37
It always looks different when you are on the spot. If the vehicle can not go forward, it maybe possible to recover it backwards.

Using his own winch to hold the front, a winch from the rear via a snatch block up the bank. Looks like a tray back, if he has a head board, a stap on there to hold him from sliding down the log any further.

His front wheels went over so they should come back.
AnswerID: 389952

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 18:00

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 18:00
Hi Tony

It is hard from to tell from a photo , but the front wheels were the only set basically on the ground , so I only ever consider pulling from the front even if I could have got round behind.




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Reply By: Member - Captain (WA) - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 13:45

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 13:45
Hi Robin,

Its hard to tell from a single photo and the angle taken, but I agree that securing to the fallen tree should be incorporated. I would have tried securing a chain (or a 2nd winch cable via a snatch block) around the fallen tree and to the chassis near the rear wheel. This would be used to stop the vehicle rolling when using another winch to pull it forward. In the photo, it appears that a short chain would allow the vehicle to come forward but also stop the rollover.

I have helped recover a vehicle in a similar situation, but did not have the complication of the log. The vehicle was completely off the road with a slope similar to yours and in danger of rolling. We had two vehicle with winches, used one connected to the rear wheel suspension to stop it rolling (positioned roughly how your log is) while my vehicle winched it forward. The advantage we had was the vehicle was a small Nissan Pulsar and that we had plenty of room on the road to position vehicles as required - all went smoothly.

Other times I have used to chains to prevent a rollover while winching off camber and back to safe ground. Each situation is different and depending on what equipment you have available, it will help dictate the best way to recover.

Do you know how it all went in the end? And for the bigger question, how did the H2 go???

Cheers

Captain
AnswerID: 389954

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 18:07

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 18:07
Yep , I looked at it from what I would do with no other support and its hard to see from 1 photo.

The H2 , well I will write about it , but briefly , better than expected , but I did catch it out in a head to head against the Patrol and overall it made me less fearful of getting a 200 series because of its perceived size.
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Reply By: Robin Miller - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 13:50

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 13:50
Hi Guys

Just a note considering the replies.

It wasn't possible to get on the other side of the vehicle to pull backwards at all
AnswerID: 389957

Follow Up By: Member - Timbo - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 14:18

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 14:18
Oh sorry - just assumed the vehicle in the background was yours.
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Follow Up By: Member - Tony (ACT) - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 16:34

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 16:34
No matter what side the winch is on, use snatch blocks to change the direction of the pull.
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Follow Up By: Member - Timbo - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 17:23

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 17:23
I agree Tony - the only thing it would change is my final suggested "gentle pull/tow" to get the front wheels back over the log the way it came. Maybe a gentle nudge from Robin's Patrol?! Nah, my 'prescribed method' is saved because the picture shows another vehicle behind that could almost certainly perform this final small task! :-)
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 17:52

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 17:52
My mistake Timbo , should have said access was from one side only , there was really no other way out and a couple of vechiles who had been camping did come up from the other direction , but I could not.
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Reply By: Member - John (Vic) - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 14:18

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 14:18
Ring the insurance company and increase the sum insured value then give it a push over the edge and claim the insurance :-)
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Follow Up By: Sand Man (SA) - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 17:43

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 17:43
You're a wicked man John:-)

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Follow Up By: baldman - Thursday, Nov 12, 2009 at 23:46

Thursday, Nov 12, 2009 at 23:46
Good idea but I reckon the bloke BBQing the sausages in the middle of the road would have taken point with that suggestion :-)
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Reply By: Member - mazcan - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 14:28

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 14:28
hi
is it any wonder that forrest tracks are being closed to 4wd access on a ever continuing basis across australia
and the 4wd fraternity keep trying to convince the authorities that we are a responsible group of people and 4wders

this totally avoidable situation should never have occurred

does the driver of this toyota not know that when a tree is across the track that a chain saw is needed to clear it or a safe alternative route needs to be found or maybe go back !!!!
and/or enough sense to change the foward approach plans
this will now cause another knee jerk reaction from the tree huggers and will result in more tracks closures
when will common sense prevail
AnswerID: 389961

Follow Up By: dazza62 - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 15:01

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 15:01
My sentiments exactly.

Unfortunately too many are engaging 4wd before putting their brains in gear.

It's time that the costs of recovering idiots were passed on to the offenders. Would certainly cover the cost of a few sausages!!!

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Follow Up By: Sir Kev & Darkie - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 15:19

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 15:19
Who is to say that he wasn't the first vehicle to traverse that tree??
If an obstacle which has been traversed by others already why break out the chainsaw to chop a 1m diametre tree just so you can go through?


Cheers Kev
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Follow Up By: Member - Leigh (Vic) - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 16:59

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 16:59
My experince suggests suzzuki owners are the first to arrive at the scene and only cut wide enough to get themselves through!
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Follow Up By: Member - Timbo - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 17:25

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 17:25
LOL :-) I'll bet they just to do it to spite the rest of us!
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Follow Up By: Member - Tonyb (FNQ) - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 18:03

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 18:03
mazcan - Give the guy and us a break - You are allowed to make mistakes, you then learn from them.

Tracks are not being closed Just because one guy made a wrong move. No harm done in this case except for some pride. A lot of high horses here and isn't hindsight a wonderful thing.

Cheers Tony
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 18:11

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 18:11
Hi Mazcan

I'd not reccomend reading any other posts I make about the weekend (if I get time to post).
If this one gets you worked up they will give you a "Totally avoidable" coronary.
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Follow Up By: Member - mazcan - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 21:23

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 21:23
hi you guys
dont you worry about me i wont be stressing out or loosing any sleep
incidents like this are all to common
the anti 4wd lobbiest love blogs like these as it gives them an overall view and insight as to how some 4wders behave and thats all they need to keep digging in against us
just as you have, i also have opinions although it seems somewhat different views in some respects but there's no dis-repect toward you but it does'nt take much of a comment to ark some of you up
i wonder why
cheers no lost sleep here
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Thursday, Nov 05, 2009 at 07:52

Thursday, Nov 05, 2009 at 07:52
Hi Mazcan

I would not have even associated this as a for or against 4wd incident.

Not even a 4wd track , just a mishap like the Holden I saw rammed into the back of a Hyundi Getz on way home last night. Life goes on.
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Follow Up By: Member - Tonyb (FNQ) - Thursday, Nov 05, 2009 at 18:52

Thursday, Nov 05, 2009 at 18:52
mazcan - So.............

Don't ever get bogged

Don't ever get hung up

Don't fall into a washout

Don't ever have an accident

etc etc etc

Boy you must be an expert - Not arking up, just trying to show you that this is not ammunition for anti 4 x 4 lobbists

Actually why own a four wheel drive?


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Reply By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 15:27

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 15:27
Hi Robin,
What's a "troppy" ??

Now the Landcruiser Cab Chassis in question would need first to be secured from sliding further down the greasy slope. To that end we'd need to secure it from the drivers side rear to something stout up the hill.

That now opens up the most powerful recovery tool available, time to have a think about what's available in the kit bag and what we can do with it. Then we think thoroughly about the repercussions of each action.

For example, if we had a chain saw we may be able to make a log bridge from the left rear wheel to terra firma. This choice isn't obvious from the photo so it may or may not exist.

The possibility of a hand winch off the side and skull drag the back end back up the surface it slipped down may work. We may be able to take up the tension on the side winch and then us a Hi Lift or something to lift the rear a little as we winch thus reducing the side on friction.

We may be able to side winch and build that log bridge I mentioned earlier thus allowing the vehicle to almost drive out.

Or once we get the rear wheels onto more firma and less terra the vehicles own winch could be brought into play to pull it forward as we ease off on the side pull.

There's a hundred permutations for getting that ute out of there but really, you'd need to be there.

My first priority would be a side pull on it to stop the back wheels from sliding further down the greasy pole!

My second priority would be a good long hard apparaisal of the equipment at hand and the situation.

I'd be very reluctant to hook another vehicle to it in the currently unstable situation as we may end up with two of them at the bottom of the hill neatly joined by a winch cable or similar!

Geoff

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Follow Up By: Member - Timbo - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 17:28

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 17:28
"...thus allowing the vehicle to almost drive out"

Ha ha, good luck getting some sucker to drive it while it's on that angle! :-)
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Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 17:31

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 17:31
"good luck getting some sucker to drive it" hence the "almost"

Geoff

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Follow Up By: OREJAP - Thursday, Nov 05, 2009 at 16:38

Thursday, Nov 05, 2009 at 16:38
A high lift jack laid down & used to hand winch, pulling the vehicle sideways towards the track. As Geoff mentioned securing the vehicle with a couple of drag chains so it won't fall down the slope first & a winch extention strap via 2 X snatch block to triple the pull of the high lift would do the job. Used this method years ago on a 100 series cruiser with both off side wheels in the air waiting to slide & roll down a very steep slope. This is only my suggestion I wasn't there & hindsight can be a pain at times.
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Reply By: Rangiephil - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 15:37

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 15:37
I had a similar situation once in the Watagans.
We were driving in convoy on a 8 metre or so causeway with a 1metre pipe through it. Floods caused water from the end of the pipe to erode the bank on the downstream side.
One car drove to the left of the track and was left sitting on its RH floor/chassis with RH wheels off the ground and and entire LH over the bank.

We secured the car to a tree on the other side of the road with a snatch, then dug a platform into the bank under the car and placed an airjack there and inflated it, so that the car then rested it RH wheels on the track and the air bag.

We then pulled off a tree on the RH through a snatch block to the winch on the front on my car, after anchoring my car to one behind.

Once we had pulled as far as possible , so that the LH wheels were hard up against the bank, we dug a ramp at the front, and did a front pull from my car, still with a snatch holding the car from slipping sideways. The airbag is good to use in this situation as it will roll over and allow movement without collapsing.

I believe an air bag is very useful in these situations. Maybe one could have been useful there.
Regard sPhilip A
AnswerID: 389970

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 21:19

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 21:19
Understand Philip , might have worked here , worth a try if all else your doing is settling in for 3 hours waiting for recovery truck.
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Reply By: Member - Lionel A (WA) - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 15:51

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 15:51
Pull out anything weighty from the passengers side, bunch of blokes on the drivers side step then snatch the living daylights out of it.


Cheers......Lionel.
AnswerID: 389976

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 18:36

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 18:36
Yeah, I reckon she had quite a load on the tray and it could have shifted down that side Lionel.
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Reply By: Camoco - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 16:06

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 16:06
I am not offering to assist with the recovery options, nut just to say .... Thanks Robin.
It is situations like this that get us thinking.
Maybe we could avoid the same occurring to us by remembering this thread.
It also makes you think about the safety aspects and assistance that could be available when we think we may be alone.
I hope the poor vehicle got out safely, but at least the passengers would be able to talk about it even if the vehicle was to have gone over the edge during recovery.

You seem to come across many situations and thanks for your input. At least one of us is having fun :).

Cheers Cam
AnswerID: 389979

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 17:50

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 17:50
Hi Cam

I love to review things and think how they might be done better , and all to soon the time comes round when having fun gets harder and we all need to make memories now.
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Reply By: Member - Tonyb (FNQ) - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 17:58

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 17:58
Now if you had to tackle that yourself that would be the trick :-)

From the photo I would say you could try it with Two Snatch blocks. This also would give it a safe anchor point

You would need a tree on the RHS of the track out front of the vehicle and another tree side rear of the vehicle. Fit a snatch block to each tree.

Run the cable forward to the front side tree snatch block and back through the rear side tree snatch block. As this is only single cable distance may be a factor.

Use your drag Chain and secure the rear and attach to the winch clip.

Use your tow rope for security and tie the rear to another tree just in case.

Now start winching the vehicle will pull forward and at the same time pull its rear back towards the road.

Adjust trees and anchor points until you get your pride and joy back on the road and then say - I will never do that again and carry a Chain saw :-)

Cheers Tony



AnswerID: 389986

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 21:25

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 21:25
Hi Tony

That might work , but I only had 1 small snatch block and I was choosing the fallen tree as anchor because It was huge and secure and I could notch it as required as I had a chain saw.
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Reply By: burnsy - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 20:03

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 20:03
Had a very similar thing happen to me a few years ago in a troopy.
1: I secured the vehicle by putting a snatch strap through the back windows around the top & back to a Tirfor winch on a tree
. 2: now the car cannot roll or slide down the mountain side.
3: I was lucky enough to have a front winch so I ran it through a pulley block to the tow bar & dragged the troopy sideways back onto the road while taking the slack with the tirfor.
Had to do some shovel work to keep the front & back moving smoothly.
4: didn't do much for my winch rope though.
Took about 45 minutes.
Mike
AnswerID: 390005

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 21:20

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 21:20
Sounds like a good save Mike
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Follow Up By: Bob of KAOS - Thursday, Nov 05, 2009 at 08:10

Thursday, Nov 05, 2009 at 08:10
My first thought was a Tirfor from the back of the vehicle to a tree on the high side just forward of the rear attachment point.

With the weight of some extra bodies on the front of the vehicle I'd shorten the Tirfor and apply some gentle forward traction through the wheels.
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FollowupID: 657810

Reply By: Crackles - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 22:11

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2009 at 22:11
Run cable from vehicle behind through a snatch block on the fallen tree (if secure) to a drag chain looped around the middle of the chassis & side of the tow bar.
Run the winch out on Cruiser to a tree up on the embankment. (Double block)
Now it's secure & relatively safe I'd lighten the load in the car, pack timbers under as required, dig a shallow trench for the right rear tyre to follow then winch out quietly.
Certainly a close shave :-)
Cheers Craig.................
AnswerID: 390022

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Thursday, Nov 05, 2009 at 07:46

Thursday, Nov 05, 2009 at 07:46
I didn't have that much stuff Craig , but traffic began to pile up on the other side so it could have been done , must hunt around the sites and see if anyone else reported on this incident and its outcome.
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Reply By: Gramps - Thursday, Nov 05, 2009 at 08:01

Thursday, Nov 05, 2009 at 08:01
Now with those snags, did he have white bread or that wholemeal rubbish ???

AnswerID: 390040

Reply By: archar - Thursday, Nov 05, 2009 at 13:36

Thursday, Nov 05, 2009 at 13:36
hey guys,
i was actuly there when they recoved this vehicle(3 hour wait lucky we had some cold cans of lemonaide!) there was not tow truck just the bloke from the servo from jammison in his ol 45 serires tray with a winch and he ran a tackle block off the base of the fallen tree too the car and we ran a large rope to the rear end(although it didnt really need it) if anyone knows how to put up a video clip can post the recovery! long wait but it gave us a story to tell!
AnswerID: 390078

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Thursday, Nov 05, 2009 at 19:07

Thursday, Nov 05, 2009 at 19:07
To Much Archar , I'd love to know more , sounds like we could have recovered it after all with your help.

Don't know how to post that maybe someone else could help , you could post to my email address and I could go from there.
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