DCOTY 4WD category

Submitted: Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 11:35
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Has anyone seen this?

DCOTY 4WD Video

Basically (my take anyway) the Landcruiser is too much of a 4WD to be 4WD of the year, so the title goes to Disco4 because it is better on-road. They go on about off road ability (the word awesome is mentioned several times) , but didn't show any car actually going off road. I am to assume that the most important feature of any 4WD is it's non-4WDiness........

But what do I know, I drive an outback.
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Reply By: putrol - Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 12:39

Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 12:39
it seems that 400mm diff, clearence mud tyres, 3ft wheel travel are no good off road!! thats why we have to put up with low profile tyres limited independent front ends ect because that is what works? not for me
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Follow Up By: Member - Bob K (QLD) - Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 13:44

Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 13:44
Don't knock em until you've tried em!!! Just love mine.
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Reply By: Member - John (Vic) - Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 12:49

Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 12:49
I guess LR Aus signed the bigger advertising contract for this year?

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Follow Up By: rocco2010 - Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 13:04

Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 13:04
That remark is bordering on defamatory ... and plainly ridiculous bearing in mind the transparent double wraparound that came with The Age and Sydney Morning Herald (the home of Drive) when the new Prado was launched a few weeks ago . What do you reckon that would have cost?

It is well known in the media and motoring industry that Toyota outspends everybody on marketing. Land Rover's budget would be miniscule by comparison

Cheers

Rocco
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 14:01

Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 14:01
Defamatory, yeah right what a joke.

Its also well known that those who agree to the best advertising deal get the best reviews.

Whats a better joke is a 4wd of the year awarded based on its on road ability.

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Follow Up By: rocco2010 - Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 14:20

Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 14:20
Perhaps John you could tell us what line of work you are/have been in. Kickbacks accepted practice there are they?

If it was all about advertising dollars, Toyota would win everything. The fact that they don't is proof that it isn't.

And if you went on an internet forum and accused me of accepting money in exchange for favours you would certainly be hearing from me, if not from a lawyer

I dont know why people get in a lather over these awards. They are only someone's opinion, and as we know everybody has got one.

It isnt going to be complusory to buy a Disco and Toyota aren't going out of business any time soon because of the award.


Read, absorb the information and make your judgment on what you will buy. Accusing people who make a different choice of dishonesty or stupidity really is childish.

And no. I dont have a Toyota or a Land Rover but if I was in the market for a large top range 4WD I would certainly check out both.

Cheers

Rocco
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Follow Up By: Rossco 09 - Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 14:52

Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 14:52
Dear rocco2010, boy you really get fired easy don't you. I know I shouldn't react to an over-reaction in a Forum, but I just can't help myself; so here goes.

John has made a comment based on opinion, that you have admitted because you claim everyone is entitled to one. Are you accusing John of being in a kick-back run line of business? I guess it's OK for you to 'defame' him, it's just your opinion. But I would like to know why you are so affected by his opinion.

Would you (over)re-act if it was a mate at the pub expressing the same reasoning, or is just easier to mouth of on the net with the lack of face to face interaction.

Do you think Toyota's feelings might be hurt, or are you simply a person who is offended for offenses sake.

Me thinks the later of both applies.

Cheers

Rossco
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 14:55

Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 14:55
Didn't the review say the Toyotas and the Landie were line ball offroad so the final decision came down to onroad performance. Selective reading on the part of a few on eyed jap vehicle drivers.

Poor baby's - done over again by the big bad landie.

Garry
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Follow Up By: rocco2010 - Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 15:07

Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 15:07
Rossco

i only asked John ... I have had a long career in various media and i have grown tired of people accusing journalists of everything under the sun. I adopt the same approach now whenever people start on the media. I always ask what they do for a living so I can argue back.

Sure there are some people in the media who do things that i wouldn't and don't approve of and I'll say that in public too if I'm asked

There are dodgy pollies lawyers doctors butchers bakers and candlestick makers as well as journalists and car salesmen. If you know for sure by all means out them, but the idea that advertising deals influence the judges in a car award in one of Australia's biggest media companies (and no I don't work there) is accusing them of dishonesty as well as being fanciful

I say again, Toyota spend the most, they don't win all the time.

Now I'll go and have a bex and a lie down

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 15:34

Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 15:34
Have been in business long enough to have experienced the link between editorial comment and advertising first hand.

Lets just add a couple of other common prominent advertising and review/comment situations if you don't think it happens.

Ummm!! Oh yeah "Cash for Comment" springs to mind as one, or how about supermarkets selling/leasing prime product display space to the highest bidder and demanding of the product owner that the supermarkets name is directly linked within the advertising to the product being sold or we won't stock your stuff.

One more, whats termed these days as "Infomercial" have a look at this Thread to get the general attitude to these sorts of paid advertisements under disguise of product testing or review.

Or how about a few years ago a certain 4wd magazine declaring a certain 4wd as 4wd of the year, suddenly the company that won has the prime back cover of the mag for the next 12 months advertising their car as 4wd of the year.
Never appeared there before (or within the magazine for that matter) so I guess it was just coincidence?

The journalists are not stupid they know who pays them and where that money ultimately comes from.

I don't buy the magazines or papers as you simply can't believe the reviews within as the industry has become so conflicted with the advertising dollar that credibility has to be questioned.

Personally its got nothing to do with LR beating Toyota but everything to do with the lack of credibility in the advertising market.

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Follow Up By: Grizzle - Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 16:29

Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 16:29
You don't buy them you just read other peoples!!

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Follow Up By: Bob of KAOS - Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 23:01

Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 23:01
This post has been read by the moderation team and has been moderated due to a breach of The Inappropriate Rule .

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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 01:07

Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 01:07
Would have expected a bit better from you Bob.

Nothing to do with Land Rovers and I can safely say that other than a light hearted comment made in the spirit of taking the pi$$ once or twice over the years regarding same I have never directed criticism at the vehicle themselves or the company.
I would challenge you to support your comment by posting the threads that I have openly criticised the vehicle.

My comment was directed purely at a Cash for Comments situation which I would have suggested regardless of make, model or brand of vehicle, tyre, fridge etc.
If you read my follow up 7 of 9 you would plainly see my point.

I could not careless if you wanted to pick on Toyota's in general or even Troopy's in particular, I buy what I like and what suits me same as you I'm sure.

As for sensitivity, I would suggest you don't know me well enough to really understand what a sensitive new age guy I really am. :-)

Criticise away if thats the type of bloke you really are and its what makes you happy, unlike others on this site who spit the dummy and chuck in their Membership when someone hangs it on them or they get moderated and then come crawling back a few months later with their tail between there legs, I take the good with the bad and get over it about 2 seconds after its been posted and remain a supporter of the site regardless.

You need to lighten up, After all its only the Internet and its not life changing.

Cheers

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Follow Up By: Bob of KAOS - Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 07:14

Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 07:14
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 10:35

Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 10:35
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Follow Up By: Bob of KAOS - Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 12:25

Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 12:25
John
If you are really concerned about editorial comment (including moderation) perhaps you should ask if that happens on this site. I seem to recall that Toyota feted the proprietors at the launch of the Prado without drawing criticism from you.
Bob


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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 13:42

Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 13:42
Yes it appears Toyota has recognised the value and appeal of the EO site in the 4wd market place.
Which I might add is nice and really gives a personal lift to those involved in the site for all the hard work finally being recognised and as such out of respect to the position invited the owners to a new model launch.

No comparisons to other brands of vehicles, no awards attached and no payment to journalists by the paper/magazine to write about the Pro's and Con's between vehicles.

I see that the owners elected to write a Blog of days events of as a matter of general interest.

Still didn't entice me to buy a new Prado :-) but I'm pleased they had fun on the day.



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Reply By: Notso - Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 14:25

Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 14:25
Isn't it amazing how defensive people get about their favourite vehicles.

At the end of the day, these choices are made by human beings, Most of us are human in some way and we are inclined to let our emotions rule our thinking. Remember the Camira, the P38 (only half a car)

Anyhow I'm sure Toyota will get over it and landrover will take no notice of it.


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Reply By: Member - Teege (NSW) - Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 14:41

Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 14:41
This is what they actually said:
"The new Land Rover Discovery 4 has followed the back-to-back winning ways of its series 3 predecessor, and in the process sets a record for Australia’s Best Cars. It’s now five wins in a row for the Disco, with Subaru’s Forester the only other five-time winner (although not in consecutive years).

Discovery 4 brings a number of improvements, some incremental and others major, plus fresh looks inside and out. It was no real surprise therefore that it kicked mud in the faces of heavy-duty class finalists Toyota LandCruiser and Mitsubishi Pajero.

The new Disco proved more than ever that being engineered to tackle serious off-road treks doesn’t have to come at the expense of comfort, refinement, performance and adept road manners. The previous series 2.7-litre turbo-diesel engine always punched above its weight and continues in the series 4 base model. This winning model features a brilliant new 3.0-litre sequential twin-turbo diesel jointly developed with. Power is up 29% and torque 36% to a stump-pulling 600Nm. On or off road, this responsive engine impresses for its smooth, effortless performance. The new diesel also brings significant improvement to fuel economy and lower CO2 emissions. It also gets special tweaks compared with the Jaguar version to better suit its duty as an off-roader. The petrol engine in the range is a naturally aspirated direct-injection 5.0-litre. As the premium version, it gains plenty of extra gear over the 3.0-litre diesel but adds nearly $45,000 to the pricetag.

Discovery’s already enviable scores for handling, ride and braking all get a boost this year thanks to revised steering and suspension and larger brakes. Ride and handling precision are far ahead of what would usually be expected of a large all-terrain vehicle.

Not so enviable are scores for running and repair costs and depreciation, while warranty and pricing hover near mid-field. But Discovery 4 TDV6 SE gives buyers a substantial standard equipment list and class-leading scores for safety and security. Like the series 3, it includes standard seating for seven with curtain head airbag protection also included for row-three passengers. The diesel mis-fuelling protection device fitted into the filler neck helps prevent expensive-to-rectify lapses of concentration at the fuel bowser.

Land Rover’s Terrain Response system with programs to suit virtually any terrain has been refined in the new model, improving off-road prowess. Height-adjustable air suspension and an improved hill-descent-control system aid off-road progress too.

Heavy hauling ability adds to the Land Rover’s appeal with a 3500kg (braked) towing capacity and the addition of a new towing aid, Trailer Stability Assist. When selected, the system can detect trailer sway and intervene to help bring towing back under control.

For its versatility and excellent blend of on-road sophistication with the ability to accomplish go-anywhere off-road adventures, it once again was impossible to go past the Land Rover Discovery TDV6 SE.

Finalists
Toyota Landcruiser GXL d
Mitsubishi Pajero GLS d "

Seems to me to be a fairly well reasoned decision.


teege
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Follow Up By: Rossco 09 - Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 14:54

Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 14:54
Yep, fair enough. I was just too lazy to click through and read all the blah blah blah...
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Reply By: Rossco 09 - Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 15:06

Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 15:06
Oh, and I took it on the beach once. Does that count for anything? Credibility anyone..........
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Follow Up By: Member - Andrew (QLD) - Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 15:27

Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 15:27
LOL....

Strange how they throw the Outback into the sub 40K SUV category when it is near on impossible to buy one for that price. Nice win for them in any case, another sticker to plant on the side windows as per earlier models :)

Andrew
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Follow Up By: Rossco 09 - Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 15:40

Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 15:40
I think mine has a sticker about winning rally's. WTF?! Since when do Outback's race rally's? Maybe the one that involves getting to the top of the multi-story carpark at the local shopping centre first to get the last spot.
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Follow Up By: Member - Andrew (QLD) - Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 11:04

Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 11:04
LOL, wished they had planted the 2.5 turbo (aka US WRX motor) into the Outback to distinguish it from the Forester. We sold our MY99 after they started to make the Forester too similiar to the Outback to justify the difference in cost.

Upgraded to a rally bred WRX .... the sticker must have worked :)

Andrew
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 15:18

Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 15:18
4wdOTY awards tell you how a vehicle rates after a weekend drive.

They tell you nothing about reliability, servicing, and whether it will fall apart in the desert. So if the Disco 4 is anything like the Disco 3, its a very nice capable vehicle, with lots of bells and whistles and heaps of buttons to press that help you drive up hills and down hills. And buttons that raise and lower the suspension make it pretty good offroad.

But I don't want that, so I don't take any notice.
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Reply By: Rossco 09 - Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 15:32

Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 15:32
Clarkson likes it:

Jeremy's review

I love this bit about murderers and this from the end:

"All you ever think in a Disco is: “God. I wish I had a Range Rover.” It’s like being on holiday in Port Grimaud. You’re in the same country as St Tropez. You’re on the same bay. You have the same weather and the same food. And you’ve paid less. But you’re not actually in St Tropez and that makes you feel constantly disappointed with your lot.

Of course, you can argue that you bought the Discovery because you need seven seats. But if you need seven seats, the Volvo XC90 is a more sensible, more practical, easier to use and less expensive solution.

So there we are. The Land Rover Discovery 4. It’s excellent. Don’t buy one.

Clarkson’s verdict

Brilliant. But not as good as a Range Rover"
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Reply By: Phil and Sue - Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 15:38

Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 15:38
Its good to see that I am not the only putting his foot in his mouth.

Chuckle.
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Reply By: putrol - Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 10:50

Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 10:50
give me a 4wd that will go anywhere & climb anything thats basic inside
befor a computer on wheels with leather seats 8 cup holders that will only go half way
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Reply By: Member - Kroozer (WA) - Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 13:14

Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 13:14
Those guys wouldnt know poo from clay. I didnt see any actual offroad tests done? Which is essentially what a 4wd is made for is it not? These tests dont mean anything, sales numbers mean more. Landcruiser and Patrol have got that covered so i believe that tells the real story.Reliability, track record, parts availability, dealer network, accessory options, fuel range, wheel size, tyre size, service costs, fuel economy, low range ability, suspension flex, build quality. Nope none of that matters, we will only ever use it to go to work and to Yoga. I know what i would rather be driving outback, if something did go wrong bound to be a Toyota dealer nearby. Landrover maybe nearest city.These city turkeys dont really take this into account do they, more worried about where there can put there homo latte. Oh well though, there only doing what they were told to do.
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Reply By: Member -Tukka (WA) - Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 13:27

Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 13:27
http://www.newcars.com/toyota/landcruiser/reviews/landrover-rangerover.html
AnswerID: 394492

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