What makes the perfect tyre?
Submitted: Sunday, Dec 13, 2009 at 20:05
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Member - Kroozer (WA)
When purchasing a tyre or researching new tyres what is is that you look for?
Of course one is Light Truck construction, but what about ply ratings, sidewall plies, of course tread depth, compound type, load ratings etc.
Just like to run a couple of questions, answer what you think are the best ratings for each of these questions. All in regards to a A/T tyre, with say 60% on road and 40% off road. Tyre noise has to be low, wear has to be good and speed and load ratings have to be that of an average A/T.
1) How many plies must a good A/T tyre have?
2) What makes the sidewall more durable and less puncture resistant?
3) What compound, hard or soft?
4) What brand tyre has the best tread pattern for this type of tyre? Eg. BF Goodrich, Bridgestone, Cooper, Toyo etc
5) What do you look for in a tyre?
6) What tyres do you run on your vehicle and why?
7) What pressure do you run your tyres at and on bitumen, and on gibber?
Cheers folks, look forward to your answers. Makes it easier for those of us who dont really know what makes a tyre a good tyre.
Reply By: Outbacktourer - Sunday, Dec 13, 2009 at 21:09
Sunday, Dec 13, 2009 at 21:09
Oh no, first fridges today, now this!
1) How many plies must a good A/T tyre have?
prefer 8 Ply Rating (not necessarily same as 8 ply)
2) What makes the sidewall more durable and less puncture resistant?
age
3) What compound, hard or soft?
Harder rather than softer
4) What brand tyre has the best tread pattern for this type of tyre? Eg. BF Goodrich, Bridgestone, Cooper, Toyo etc
Can only speak for BFG and Bridg, both OK
5) What do you look for in a tyre?
Price and availability
6) What tyres do you run on your vehicle and why?
BFG's, put onto by a mate 15 years ago, no problems, no need to change, available and relatively cheap in 265/75/16. Recently put a set of NEXEN Roadian AT's on another vehicle ($195 ea) to trial them, so far so good.
7) What pressure do you run your tyres at and on bitumen, and on gibber?
Enough to give 210mm contact patch all round, -10psi from that at the end of the blacktop. For me pressure is a variable like weight.
A couple of other rules I use is that do a trip at I will not do a harsh trip on a tyre older than 3 years and always put the best on the rear and the best of the best (hopefully new) on passenger side rear.
OT
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Kroozer (WA) - Sunday, Dec 13, 2009 at 21:34
Sunday, Dec 13, 2009 at 21:34
Oh right, i was always told to have the best tyres on the front, rather get a flat/blow out on the rear not on a steerer, while travelling at any speed. Whats the reason for having the best on rear?
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Lionel A (WA) - Monday, Dec 14, 2009 at 08:24
Monday, Dec 14, 2009 at 08:24
Same here Kroozer, but I think that applied more to bitumen use because of higher speeds.
I now tend to put the better tyres to the rear because of the extra weight when loaded and better grip in 2wd.
Im the epitome of laziness, I wont get out and lock the front hubs in until the car cant go any further.....lol.
Cheers......Lionel.
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Outbacktourer - Monday, Dec 14, 2009 at 08:41
Monday, Dec 14, 2009 at 08:41
That's right, on a loaded 4by the tyres carrying the most weight and under most stress tend to be the rears and in particular the passenger side rear (camber of the road, rough edges, washouts etc). Not saying your fronts should be bad, only to put the best of them on the back.
OT
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Follow Up By: Member - Timbo - Monday, Dec 14, 2009 at 17:47
Monday, Dec 14, 2009 at 17:47
Kroozer, another reason why you might put good tyres on the back, at least on dirt roads, is that the front tyres tend to flick stuff up and the back tyres cop it. I haven't had many punctures but they've all been on rear tyres.
The front tyres run over stuff while it's lying flat (generally), but they flick it up and sometimes things can be standing upright at the time the rear tyre runs over it. A couple of years back I was on a decent dirt road and ran over a piece of shale which flicked up and must have been near vertical when the back wheel went over it. It made a great "thump" (was felt through the whole car) and cut off one of the lugs on the tread but amazingly the tyre didn't puncture - I had the newer tyres on the back and half worn ones on the front - had it been the other way around I reckon it would have gone through...
I used BFG A/T's generally, just because I tried them once and was very happy with them. They are also recommended by many people for outback travel. I got a Bridgestone D693 at one point (I had to replace a tyre at Mungarannie and they didn't have BFG in my size) and ended up getting another to match and was quite happy with these, although they went on the front - I figured they were probably better at the front for better braking and steering on the road, and probably not as tough for puncture resistance off the road.
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Reply By: pop2jocem - Sunday, Dec 13, 2009 at 21:16
Sunday, Dec 13, 2009 at 21:16
Hi Kroozer,
I guess it would help narrow the selection process down if you could pick a type of terrain that you are most likely to frequent. IMHO there is no perfect tyre, just tyres that are most suitable for for a particular environment. I have 2 sets of tyres. I wont get into brands but I use 31x10.5-15 for beach or similar work and a set of 235x85-16 in 10 ply for outback, rocky or heavy stake riddled areas.Probably even 12 or 14 ply in really bad areas would be better. I try to stay away from mud myself but I know some who love to play in it and if that was the case a good mud terrain would be the pattern of choice.
So pardner name your poison lol
Cheers
Pop
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Kroozer (WA) - Sunday, Dec 13, 2009 at 21:32
Sunday, Dec 13, 2009 at 21:32
Sorry mate, talking about the normal offroad tracks like the
Gibb River road and other normal fast type dirt roads, little bit off offtrack driving but not extreme stuff like Willem does LOL. Mainly just a good tyre thats tough enough to do
the desert tracks and the gibber tracks but also be safe and reliable on and off road. Not muddy tracks though.
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Sunday, Dec 13, 2009 at 22:09
Sunday, Dec 13, 2009 at 22:09
Ok, sounds like you do similar trips to me. I wasn't going to name brands and start the old Cooper versus everyone else battle that always ends up in tears and someone getting the mod squad involved but.... I have tried both Hankook and Kumho in the 235-16 10 ply size with a fairly non aggressive tread pattern and found both to work
well enough for what I want. Both very reasonably priced and give average milage 50-60000 k's. The Hankooks seem to last marginally longer. While I know there are better quality tyres around I would cry if I staked a $300 or more dollar tyre with heaps of tread left and I dont think any tyre no matter how expensive is stake proof. I haven't had too many dramas with the 10 ply's and they bag out fairly
well if the going gets a bit sandy.
Hope this helps a bit
Cheers
Pop
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Sunday, Dec 13, 2009 at 22:15
Sunday, Dec 13, 2009 at 22:15
And they both are quiet on road and grip fairly
well on wet bitumen and no scolloping on the front
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Follow Up By: splits - Sunday, Dec 13, 2009 at 23:13
Sunday, Dec 13, 2009 at 23:13
" Kroozer (WA) posted:
talking about the normal offroad tracks like the
Gibb River road and other normal fast type dirt roads"
The
Gibb River Road information on this site
Site Link. does not mention any particular type of tyre but emphasises the importance of pressures and speed. Every type and brand of tyre you can think of has successfully crossed all the popular Outback tracks/roads and every type and brand has also been shredded on them. It all comes down to how you load the car and how you drive it.
Local people are always a good guide as to what works best in their area. The
well known Outback tracks are often seen as an adventure or challenge to city based 4b drivers but to the locals they are just the road from their town to the next. Every time I get out there I have noticed they are usually driving on factory fitted 7.50 x 16s with Dunlop appearing to be the most popular.
I am not suggesting you buy those although they will certainly do the job. Any popular light truck tyre will work. The key to it though is don't overload the car and don't treat the roads as a speedway.
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Kroozer (WA) - Monday, Dec 14, 2009 at 00:33
Monday, Dec 14, 2009 at 00:33
Yeah splits, i agree there. I grew up on the Gibb Road pretty much, and have done thousands of k's up and down it. Never ever have i seen any local drop there pressures, including my father (and myself till recent times). The old man ran spilt rims and we only even encountered three flats, in a trip that was around 1500 kilometres along there, and about another 2000 kilometres in fishing and
camping trips over the years. Back in the days when it was the real
Gibb River Road.
Yet i have been with a mate who has stuffed 3 Wrangler M/Ts within the first 80 kilometres of the Gibb, luckily on 2 seperate days. Myself stuffed a Dunlop Grandtrek AT2 within 30 kilometres and also 2 Cooper ATRs in first 80 kilometres with another the next day on the Karunjie road. All these occured after the road had been graded and left sharp stones everywhere. Not sure how far you would have to drop your pressure and speed to dodge a flat with them as they were everywhere. We never went over 85km/h though so we werent flying but our pressures definitely could have been lowered. expensive lessons really, and the reason i lower my pressures.
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Reply By: Willem - Sunday, Dec 13, 2009 at 21:53
Sunday, Dec 13, 2009 at 21:53
Young Kroozer :-)
Its a slow night...so I will bite ...lol
Any tyre you shod your vehicle with is a compromise. There is no tyre for all seasons or terrain, to coin a phrase
Having done a fair amount of 4x4 stuff over quite a few years I have experimented with a variety of tyres. Over the past 10 years I have been doing a number of offtrack excursions and came to the conclusion early in the piece that radial tyres are really no good for this type of terrain = mainly desert country.
I switched back to cross ply tyres and am currently running 16 ply rating MRF rags 7.50x16 on splits. So that is 10 ply tread and 6 ply sidewall. These tyres are very good in hard rocky country and also in mud funnily enough, but because of their rigid sidewall structure they are prone to sand ingress if lowered beyond 15psi. This causes tube punctures. These tyres are not unstakeable (the only unstakeable tyre will be solid rubber) but they are better than most and I have been over some rough country with them. They give a firm to hard ride. I run them at 35-40 psi on bitumen roads and 22-25 psi on gravel roads. The tread does tend to scallop a bit especially when doing long stretches of sealed road but its no worry. Another drawback is that because the tyre is so rigid it is difficult to know if you are running on a flat tyre. I have detroyed one this way :-) It delaminated and is now out of round.
I expect to get around 50,000km from these tyres.
I will stick to what I have at present and probably buy 12 ply rating crossply tyres next time around as they are more suitable for desert sand country.
Cheers
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Kroozer (WA) - Monday, Dec 14, 2009 at 00:44
Monday, Dec 14, 2009 at 00:44
Willem, i can remember when you posted the photo of those MRFs, bloody tough looking tyre thats for sure. Definitely built to endure the worst.
Good honest feedback there.
Cheers
Kroozer
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Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Sunday, Dec 13, 2009 at 23:06
Sunday, Dec 13, 2009 at 23:06
OK, a complete contrast, Kroozer.
I run a Michelin highway tyre 305/70R19.5 XDE2 on the OKA.
They have a relatively hard compound and they chip on roads like the GRR. Softer would be better.
In 150,000km of serious work, I have lost 1 tyre before it was worn out (slashed the sidewall up in the Cape this year).
I have staked 4 thru the sidewall, NONE thru the tread.
Minimum ks 55,000, max ks 75,000 per tyre (repairs typically reduce life, even if they hold together).
They have a SINGLE steel ply in the sidewall and 5 steel plys in the tread. There is no polyester or anything else.
On the roads you describe, tread pattern is the least concern, as is side wall "strength". The stiffer/stronger the sidewall, the hotter they will run and the less they will bag out. It is a 2 edge sword.
My pressures are not relevent to you, but I do reduce pressures by 10%-20% off the blacktop AND I reduce speed AND I engauge 4WD. Pressures are directly related to speed AND load.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 Motorhome
AnswerID:
394956
Reply By: Atta Boy Luther - Monday, Dec 14, 2009 at 09:33
Monday, Dec 14, 2009 at 09:33
Just got a quote for 5 bfg all terrains 265/75/r16 $316 ea . Anything cheaper that are just as long lasting ?
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Injected - Monday, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:28
Monday, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:28
Atta Boy
Good price for the BFG's. I have heard that they are usually closer to $400.00 each.
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Follow Up By: Outbacktourer - Monday, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:34
Monday, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:34
In that size, that is not IMHO a very good price, of course I don't know where you are but in
Sydney I have never paid more than $250 for a BFG in that size (Bob Jane T Mart). Having said that I have not bought one for about 18 mths.
Korean tyres in that size can be had for less than $200 and they seem to be getting a good wrap.
OT
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Reply By: Injected - Monday, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:35
Monday, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:35
Kroozer,
Here we go.. the great Coopers debate......
Stay away from the Cooper ATR's. Too hard and you probably will rip large chunks out of the tread blocks off road, (
Cape York) and deadly in the wet on the black top. Currently running them on a Nissan D40 265/75-16, at 40PSI on road, took back to tyre dealership they said to drop them to 30PSI, still slippery, but i have also been told that size tyre is too wide for the D40's to put enough downward force on the road to get them to grip properly?????
Ideas anyone?
Have a good one.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Oldplodder (QLD) - Monday, Dec 14, 2009 at 18:45
Monday, Dec 14, 2009 at 18:45
Yes, have found the same thing with every tyre on the wet bitumen.
Lower pressures give more grip.
When I was running the olympics a few (20+?) years ago, they were really dangerous, even at 30 psi in the wet (normally ran them at 36). Skated through a few intersections on those, madly backing off and on again with the brakes for grip. That was on the pajero which is about the same weight, with 31/10.5/15, or 265 wide.
One reason why I run 235/85/16LT now, narrower and same OD as 265/75/16LT.
Better grip in the wet.
Didn't find the Cooper ATs that bad in the wet, but anything would be better than the Olympic bushrangers.
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