hilux TD or nissan 3LTD for touring the remote Aust?

Submitted: Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 12:23

ThreadID: 74443 Views:11119 Replies:16 FollowUps:8

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offroad_tommo

G’day all,

Questions like the one I am going to ask have been asked over and over again, and for that I apologise, I don’t want to repeat threads, and I’ve researched as much as I can however now I’m after a little more specific information.

At this time I am comparing two vehicles, the dual cab Hilux turbo diesel as well as the 3L TD Patrol from Nissan. Now I am aware of the difference of the vehicle and how it will affect my lifestyle, ute/wagon. The thing I need to sort out though, is what’s better suited?

I’m a young bloke and I really want to get out there and start seeing some of Australia, eg. Cape York, Simpson Desert.etc. So essentially I am after a very reliable touring vehicle. I want to be able to take the family and friends so if a lux it would need to be a dual cab. I guess the only thing that concerns me is the off-road ability of the two vehicles. The lux has an IFS front, while the patrol has coils. Obviously at this I would go and grab my first next patrol that pops up but then there’s a question of motor reliability? Forums seem to spew over the patrol 3L motors while magazines generally say they are fine post 2001? As I am young bloke, I don’t want to have the thing at the garage all the time, especially if it means big repair costs. I can’t seem to find many issues with the lux on forums, so reliability is likely to be better.

I have a budget of around 30,000 and will be buying in a few months, and it seems the more research I do, the more confusing it gets! If figured that I’m probably best going a 03-05 turbo hilux and with any change left over add some touring accessories But the IFS worries me as I want to be able to go on the rougher tracks at times, especially up here in the Territory, will the IFS restrict me to nice tracks?

And another quick question, when looking on the cars sales website I notice that there are a few Land cruiser 105 standard series 4.2D selling for less then 30k, but being a Toyota I wouldn’t expect a post 2000 land cruiser to be selling that cheap, are these any good?

So any help or guidance would me much appreciated. The better the off-road ability the happier I am, however big fuel bills would scare me.

Cheers,
Tom

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Reply By: Fab72 - Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 12:35

Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 12:35

One thing to consider also is there are a lot more Toyota service centres in remote Australia than there are Nissan dealerships.

Can't comment on either vehicle having not owned or driven any of the above.

AnswerID: 395280

Follow Up By: Fatso - Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 21:01

Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 21:01

Didn't know hiluxes had to stay near dealerships.

FollowupID: 663822

Reply By: MEMBER - Darian (SA) - Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 12:36

Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 12:36

To me, your question is flawed, in that you must decide on the vehicle type first. Then the possibilities in each sector flow from that decision (though I guess there'll be more vehicle options for you in the ute class, than the wagon).

AnswerID: 395281

Reply By: Member - John (Vic) - Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 12:37

Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 12:37

Tom
Just to help you with your research and to ensure you fully understand the Pro's and Con's of the 3.0 Litre engine can I suggest you type ZD30 or Grenade into the forum search function at the top of the forum page, don't enter a start or finish date and start to have a read of the thousands of posts available with info and first hand knowledge of the issues involved.

If you still want to by the ZD30 then at least you can't say the information was not available to you.

I would hate to see a young bloke get caught with cost's involved.

I'm sure a few others who own the Hilux will give you better info than I can.

Good luck

Cheers

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AnswerID: 395282

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 13:21

Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 13:21

I'm a "Nissan man" through and through.

BUT.... Given the original poster's question, I would have to suggest there are many more pro's for the Lux than there are for the Nissan.

The only reason that the patrol could be chosen over the lux is if you require the ability to carry more than 5 people.

I am convinced that both Toyota and Nissan have made a huge error of judgement by not producing their "large" 4x4's in a dual cab format.

Owning a dual cab Patrol, as I do, I would find it very difficult to go back to using a wagon for touring duties with my family of 5. There is just so much more versatility in the dual cab set-up than there is with a wagon.....provided the dual cab has a full canopy IMHO.

So, go the hilux would be my advice.

Roachie

FollowupID: 663733

Follow Up By: Wilk0 - Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 17:23

Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 17:23

I agree with you Roachie the benifits of a dual cab large 4x4 would have them selling like hot cakes. I'd have an aluminium canopy on a t top

Tom,

IMHO I'd steer clear of the Patrol (unless its the new version next year or the old and reliable as tomorrow coming 4.2lt).

Havent had a hilux yet but they look to be a rugged and reliable vehicle.

Cheers Wilko

FollowupID: 663768

Reply By: garrycol - Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 12:42

Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 12:42

Why are people still considering the 3 litre Nissan grenades. It is clear from posts on this forum and others that the problem still exists. Given the places you want to go I would not even consider a 3 litre Patrol - 4.2 is good though.

Don't risk a the 3 litre - as was said - identify your needs first then work out what vehicle will best suit your needs - there are a few more vehicles that you might want to then consider.

Garry

AnswerID: 395283

Reply By: Sir Kev & Darkie - Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 12:43

Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 12:43

Tom,

It will come down to whether you want the internal room of a wagon or the versatility of a ute.

I wanted both so I bought a 105series and chopped it to become a dual cab. So now I have live axles, reliability and the internal room of the cab I wanted ;)

I bought my 2003 model 2 years ago for around the $30k mark so there are now a heap of post 2000 model 105's available for below $30k

Cheers Kev

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AnswerID: 395284

Reply By: GerryP - Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 12:53

Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 12:53

Hi Tom,

Never owned a Hilux, but from what I've seen they are quite capable and reliable. Yes, it has IFS, which can limit suspension travel, but then again, so has the 100 series other than the 105 series.

If you fit a good front diff locker to the 'Lux, coupled with the very good standard LSD in the rear, there won't be too many situations that'll stop you.

The other option might be a good 105 series. I have one with aftermarket turbo and have towed the CSR and the OTT to the tip without any major issues.

While the Patrol is an excellent and capable vehicle, I would be very nervous getting into a 3L. If a patrol is on your list, at least try for a 4.2L instead.

Whatever you decide is your personal choice, but good to see you doing lots of homework.

Cheers
Gerry

AnswerID: 395290

Reply By: Batman69 - Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 12:55

Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 12:55

Tom,

I had a 3.0lt Patrol and now I have a Hilux D4D dual cab ute.

There is no doubt that the coil sprung Patrol is more capable off road but really only on the most difficult of tracks will you notice the difference. You will be however, be surprised at just how capable the Hilux with IFS is.

To do the touring you mentioned you would probably need a suspension lift as when mine was from the factory it was always hitting the front bash plate, now that it has a 50mm lift it hardly scrapes it's belly at all.

There are some reliability issues with the Hilux (clutch mainly but also some related to fuel contamination and injector noise/failure) but not the the extent of the Patrol engine.

For more info on the Hilux check out...

New Hilux Website

Plenty of information there.

AnswerID: 395291

Reply By: Tenpounder (SA) - Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 12:57

Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 12:57

Hi there. I don't need to add to the Nissan 3litre debate!! A friend of mine has a 4.2 litre Patrol (non-turbo) and it's most impressive in the rough. But I would not be too put off by IRS, unless you are going to get seriously off road.
I happen to have a Prado, which has a similar front end to the HiLux, and which has 'done' the Simpson 4 times without any issues. If you have a 2in lift to help with clearance, you'll cope with a fair bit of rough stuff, especially if the bash plates are strong enough.
The ute vs wagon issue, to me, boils down to the amount of wasted weight you have tied up in two (or three) rows of seats and five doors, plus the trim, although by the time you add a canopy, the ute may not be too much lighter: and surely a ute tub holds more than the back of a wagon!
I would suspect that a 'cheap' LC 105 could be (a) ex mining; (b) ex hire. I agree that a bargain 4.2 litre diesel LC or Patrol is probably not a bargain at all!!
But I agree that, to just consider these two vehicles, does not demonstrate what you are after in your 4WD. If a Hilux is OK, then why not a Triton? and if a wagon may suit your needs, then why only consider the Patrol 3 litre, and not a Prado or a Pajero?
Last year in the Simpson, there were a couple of Troopies with nice big yankee V8 diesels: have you considered that option?
Oh to have your dilemma, Tom!!!

AnswerID: 395292

Reply By: Robin Miller - Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 13:06

Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 13:06

Hi Tom

Vehicles choices seemed to be more based on perceptions of what is important to the user rather than any real "Fit for the Duty" requirement.

IFS is a consideration but not an automatic knockout what is important here
is its effective suspension travel usually measured as ramp travel index (RTI)

Hiluxes are often more limited by leaf springs at the rear end than IFS.

I would have thought there are other vehicles you should consider like
the late 80 series or 4.2 /4.8 Patrols in the sub 30k range.

However you rule yourself out of the best cars by reffering to big fuel bills
instead of the real cost of ownership.

Two friends of mine have brought 80 series, one a 4.2 TD and the other a 4.5 petrol and one of them is still thousands of dollars in front, bet you can't guess which one !

His mate will get him in the end though, provided they both keep the same cars for 11 years.

Robin Miller

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AnswerID: 395294

Reply By: offroad_tommo - Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 15:23

Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 15:23

Crikey, didn't expect this many responses in so little short time, a big thank you to all.

I should probably provide a little bit of a reason as to why I chose these two vehicles and knocked out the other vehicles on the market.

In terms of my lifestyle I would certainly prefer a ute as I am a spraky, however the dual cabs are not as extreme off-road as some of the wagons available. The reason for the choice of a hilux was simply as being a Hilux there always around the place and as are their parts. Mentioned above was the Triton, these seem decent, especially with the 3.2TD – which I believe is from the pajero and rarely had any issues. However if something was to go wrong somewhere out regional, I don’t know how parts availability would go for the newer triton.

In terms of short listing the 3LTD patrol wagon, well not sure exactly why I even considered it. It would leave me biting my fingernails every time I went remote. But the 4.2D seems pretty rare, especially up here in the Territory. The landcrusier 80 series also appeal to me, but again these seem pretty rare and also expensive with high mileage, but perhaps this isn’t a bad thing, as I guess there’s a never ending list of parts available for these things.

In terms of fuel and prices, I am interested only in diesel because I grew up with them, never owned petrol before, but perhaps that’s something to consider, the 4.8 patrol would certainly be a go’er for me, but I’m guessing the fuel consumption would be close to the 17-20L/100kms?

I’m certainly keeping my options open and not ignoring the other vehicles on the market, but when I compare all of them, I get even more bloody confused hehe…The reason for choosing the hilux and patrol on this forum though was to get insight from those more experienced. Being to general would probably lead to someone suggesting a Kia Sportage haha!(no offence to sportage owners, they aren’t that bad!) Thank you all, I think ive got a bit more of an idea, thinking it through clearly the utes probably the better of option for me, might to a bit more research into the triton as I would love that common rail 3.2TD.

Cheers again,
Tom

AnswerID: 395304

Follow Up By: Mark S (cns) - Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 19:06

Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 19:06

Tom

Food for thought re the 4.8 patrol.
You simply cannot focus on how much it costs at the bowser. These patrols are the best value for money out there (Robin, above, can provide more detail if needed from personal experience!). They are on average $15k less in purchase price than the 4.2td equivalent patrol (eg, on carsales now, 01 4.8l 133km $23k - 03 4.8l 92km $27k - 05 4.8l 68km $29.5k). That 05 one is a cracker deal!
Now, $15k buys a lot of unleaded - do the sums based on say the 4.8 using an extra 6l /100km. Add to that the fact that the 4.8 blows the 4.2td away in terms of power, smoothness, noise and servicing costs, and you have a pretty compelling arguement.
Take one for a run (if you can find one up there). I reckon you would be surprised.

Cheers
Mark

FollowupID: 663798

Follow Up By: CJ - Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 20:45

Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 20:45

Tom

Do not get a petrol. Stick with diesel for better range and availability. Many remote stations have diesel but not petrol

CJ

FollowupID: 663815

Follow Up By: Fatso - Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 21:00

Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 21:00

One of my neighbours loves projects. His latest is a TI 4.8 patrol he bought in Sydney for $29,000 with pretty low ks. He chopped it & made an automatic TI 4.8L ute. Flashest single cab ute in NQ for $40,000.
A dual cab TI , now that would be cooking.

FollowupID: 663821

Reply By: Stiphodon - Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 19:04

Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 19:04

Hey Tom, I'm going through a similar dilemma to you at the moment, and have been tossing up between a dual cab like the hilux, or a patrol/cruiser wagon with the benefit of a solid front axle without the worry of CV boots getting torn whilst bush (which has ruined one of my trips before). Just to throw another option into the mix, what about the 130 dual cab defender? I am considering one at the moment, they are the only live front axle 4WD dual cab still made, and heaps cheaper than converting a patrol/landcruiser, plus they have economical TD engines, without the grenade issue of the ZD30. However, from what I can gather, being pommie made, they still have their share of quirks and it is something I am still trying to educate myself on!

AnswerID: 395319

Follow Up By: offroad_tommo - Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 23:22

Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 23:22

Yeh mate, I was looking at the 130 dual cabs, I rekon they might be an excellent choice for touring. A very straight vehicle indeed. From what I understand they seem to have little issues but nothing major concerning the motor, apparently some tend to leak as well? Many bag them out, however that probaly due to the fact they own and are biased towards the jap brands.

I was doing a trip through the Gibb river one time though and I met a guy who had a discovery and said he busted something at a station and rekons it can take ages to get replacement parts from Land Rover, especially within remote areas, but I would imagine this would be the case with all vehicles in remote areas.

If i was down south somewhere I would certainly be getting one, but I dont think Land Rover are very popular up here in the Territory, so im a bit unsure.

FollowupID: 663847

Reply By: Lex M (Brisbane) - Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 20:12

Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 20:12

"The better the off-road ability the happier I am,"

I reckon most of the offroad ability is behind the steering wheel.

My td duel cab Hilux has gone everywhere I've been game to go in it. And has more load carrying capacity than most wagons. I have a tray with canopy so I have more room than most wagons as well.

AnswerID: 395329

Reply By: Fatso - Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 21:13

Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 21:13

Having had a dualcab & had a wagon while having kids, I will say go for a dualcab. The dualcab will do everything the wagon does & more & more & more.
Now the kids have their own cars we are going for a single cab. We have absolutely no need for a second row of unused seats.
Go for the base model in whatever brand you choose. Vinyl is so much more practical.

AnswerID: 395342

Reply By: fisho64 - Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 22:00

Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 22:00

sorry but the ZD30 is a dog. As soon as the new V6 patrol (if it does the ZD30's will be 10 deep at the tip), you wont be able to give them away.
Unless the V6 turns out to be a bomb as well, then they might hold value.

AnswerID: 395350

Reply By: nickb - Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 22:44

Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 22:44

I have a GU Patrol and 2 mates both have 2003 Hiluxes, 1 petrol and 1 diesel.

They both keep up with me offroad until a LOT of flex is needed, other than that they are awesome. Diff locks would see them follow me everywhere.

The ute with a canopy will have much more usable space than the back of a wagon, the only dilemma may be dust entry in the back of the ute.

I vote TD Hilux.

AnswerID: 395357

Reply By: offroad_tommo - Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 23:08

Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009 at 23:08

Well seems clear enough... the 3L patrol is a kamikaze mission with strife. So that’s no longer a vehicle to consider, before asking on these forums I may have seriously considered one, cheers all, may have saved me some big buck there.

Hmm..some have you have certainly raised some good points, and my pointy eared friend is sitting next to me as I type, looks as if he would much prefer a ute to cruise on the back of. I think this is the best option for me, the ute would certainly serve me more then a wagon.

Anyone have any experiences with the Isuzu dmax as a touring vehicle..I really like them, as well as the fuel efficiency, I could probably afford the EX single cab (base model)? If that’s a no go then I guess it comes to the 3.2 Triton and Hilux (either common rail or standard 3LTD) Never been to fond of the Navaras, not that theres anything wrong with them.

AnswerID: 395360

Follow Up By: Member - Malcolm (Townsville) - Friday, Dec 18, 2009 at 17:12

Friday, Dec 18, 2009 at 17:12

offroad_tommo

I moved away from the Patrol (ZD30) because my last 12 months was an absolute nightmare. Plenty of talk on this forum. Traded it on a brand new D-MAX LS-U. I'm setting this up for touring (currently have a Kimberley Kamper but this may change - fell out of bed the first night :-) I couldn't find the step with my foot and before I knew it I was sliding on the mattress LOL. 2 hours later SWMBO did exactly the same thing.)

My first impression of the D-MAX is it is not as comfortable as the Patrol - harder suspension; turning circle seems to be bigger; fuel consumption is about the same - they tell me it will get better. Noticed on the Compliance Plate that GVM is only 2900kg. i thought it was supposed to be 3000kg. When I'm a bit more financial I'll look at upgrading the wheels and suspension.

At this stage I'm very happy with the D-MAX - only done 2650km ;-)

Malcolm