Give the Moderators a fair go!!!

I am with you Robin and as Members we must have rights....would this site be a profitable business without having paid up members?

"As Members we must have rights"

And what would those rights be may I ask?

Members pay for privileges and features, most of the rights remain with the owner.

If I stay at a friends place for free I have to do as they wish, or I won't be invited back again.

If I pay to stay at a hotel and the staff don't treat me as someone who is paying their wages, I won't be staying there again.

If I stay at a place for free, but am obliged to do work there (like being inconvenienced by the ads on this site), it's between these two extremes.

I'm amazed some people here find these concepts so hard to understand.

If I stay at a friends place for free I have to show common decency and respect (rules of life) towards them as a guest and do as they wish, Even if I don't like the colour (Adverts) on the wall or I won't be invited back again.

If I pay to stay at a hotel and I fail to abide by common courtesy and respect of the hotel rules which I agreed to when I booked into the hotel, like don't abuse the staff or other guests, don't damage the property (intellectual or other) even if I don't like the colour scheme (Adverts) on the walls of my room I'm sure I will be spoken to by management and possibly asked to leave whilst they clean up and erase my damage.
If I become intoxicated and possibly a nuisance whilst in the hotel bar, I'm sure I will be asked to leave.
If I feel I am treated harshly by staff then I will address the matter with management in a non abusive and with common decency.
I'm sure I won't be allowed to access there facilities or stay there again.

I'm no longer amazed some people here or in society in general find these concepts so hard to understand.

John

A slightly different analogy:

If I paid for a train ride and there were some sort of secret police turfing people off the train at a whim (inappropriate rule), and inconsistently, most people would say that was unreasonable.

History tells us that the secret police don't always understand the concepts of 'fair and reasonable', let alone 'the customer is always right'.

Bob

Yes Bob you could draw the bow quite a long way.

From my experience on here the moderation has been pretty good, not perfect but not inconsistent enough to loose sleep over.

After all its only the Internet.

One further point thats obvious is this thread has been allowed to stand so that the site owners and the Mods can get some feedback so they may learn how to better the system for all.

Cheers

Geez Bushy that Lynx Girl, WOW.

Yeah nice huh??

You boys don't get out much do you LOL

I was thinking the same thing Gramps, LOL

OldPop,

Details here

John

Thanks for that

Oldpop

That is wrong GD.

Members here are not Shareholders (this is a private business), they are just participants who pay their $30 per year to to have access to functions that visitors do not.

Jim.

The business of EO has survived and prospered for more than 10 years now.
I think it won't notice if you come or go Greendog.

So many have threatened and spat the dummy over all the years I have been here and not pay the fee to be a Member or to leave and never return, some do and some don't, some even leave and then come crawling back, big deal the world turns the site still grows in size with or without them.

As Jim has said your not a shareholder and when you join the site as a Member or a Non Member you agree to the site rules, if you don't like the rules then don't use the site, easy as.

See, the healing power of EO. Who'd have thought you two would reach common ground....but you have. Both points well made. Good work guys.

Cheers Mick

Best Off Road and John (Vic) have nailed it, and I have seen this sort of thing go down on quite a few internet forums in 12-13 years of posting on forums on the web.

The site Terms & Conditions outline what defines a member or guest. By registering to post content here you are also acknowledging that you will abide by the site T&C and that your posts will be subject to moderation if your post falls foul of the T&C. This is something that no one here can avoid knowledge of because you had to agree to the T&C as part of registering.

The issue of paid 'subscriptions' on forums is always contentious and can be risky if not managed properly. Some members believe it entitles them to extra posting privileges over others and they should be allowed to get away with general as bleep tery that a 'normal' member would not; this belief is erroneous. I'm not suggesting that there are members here that do, but having seen this exact sort of argument elsewhere, I can assure you that it is one that is flawed.

At the end of the day, we are all guests in someone else's house. Some of us have brought a salad to have with dinner, some of us have brought nothing, to use the dinner party analogy. The domain name, website, intellectual property that is in the form of posts and information here, is the property of the site owner and if the site owner has set out ground rules about what is appropriate and what is not, then that is their call. If that is something you can't deal with, paid member or not, then I'm sure there are forums elsewhere in the interweb that are more attuned to your views.

Thanks Mick. My sympathy about your blog being overtaken by ours. I know how it feels to be overtaken (by your butane tyre fitting)! Can't see us ever catching up with your total hit count though. Better sign off - getting OT!

Cheers

John

ABSOLUTELEY CORRECT!!!.




And to have Non Members, Quote!, that there iis no difference in entitlements so to speak, lump it or like it, has got me stuffed.



Cheers Axle.

Thank you Willem, a very accurate summary of the "state of the nation"

Geoff

well said !

Bunch of rabble rousers LOL

Regards

"Bunch of rabble rousers"

Settle young fella, we resemble that remark!

Couldn't have said it better my self Willem. The exact reason I am now a visitor

Now now Willem and Axle dont fret so much.
I dont agree with some of the mods doings either. Just go with the flooow.

Tony

Willem
That's a good call

So what is wrong with a bit of slang, and slagging off

That's what it's all about,, or should I say used to be like ...

The moderation rules apparently always been there, it's their interpretation that varies..

Must have some doo-gooders, on the board now
Cheers
Bucky

ABSOLUTELEY CORRECT!!!. X2

Queanbeyan allows Landrovers Bob, Albany doesn't :-P

I would say that what you are asking is not possible with the current forum software and architecture. They would need to move to a "proper" forum platform like VBulletin to have that sort of functionality.

Mind you VBulletin or similar would give much more user flexibility and options.

Hi Flynnie

I agree with your point that there are many posts in the forum that would be better suited to a 'blog'. Particularly as it will be easier to find and access and various topic headings.

Cheers

I have been following this thread with some interest as although I am a regular reader I am not a regular contributor unless I can add something positive, or as I have done in the past ask a question to resolve some issue I have.

This is not a political platform and freedom of speech does not apply here, if we read the rules (posted on this page somewhere at the bottom) than all contributors have to do is stick by the rules and all will be sweet.

I cannot call anyone a stupid idiot, nor would I want to but, I can say something like 'sorry mate I think you missed the point' and continue to either help or simply leave it at that. You may think some people are stupid but you cannot say it!

My point is this is not a political forum.

Regards
Paul H

PS: Rejoin Mike DID as I am sure you have contributed some assistance to me over the past couple of years and I appreciate any help I can get. C'mon Mike!

But newcomers should also expect to be required to abide by the rules of this country...

Mike

Your point is the crux of the problem over this whole ‘moderation’ discussion that has been permeating the forum for some time.

Many are confusing moderation of posts as being a ‘freedom of speech issue’ – it isn’t, it is because posts are not being made within the framework laid down by the owner’s of this site. And further, they have said we have considered our ‘terms of use’ policy and don’t won’t to argue the point with members, guests or whoever. Agree or disagree, however their ‘house’ their rules.

The irony I have found in your post is that you have sought for sometime to have the ‘rights’ of those who want to travel the bush diminished by calling for the authorities to legislate the use of personal protection devices. Yet, you cry all-foul at having your ‘freedom of speech’ rights infringed…….

Perhaps they lost you as a paying member; but you never left……a similar stance to many of those that have complained. Why, I can only surmise that the overall benefit gained from visiting this site far outweighs some of its nuances. It also gives you a on-going platform for your position on personal protection devices, and that, my friend, is freedom of speech at work!


Good weekend to you….The Landy

There's a fundamental difference between -

- I want the right to ignore the laws of the land

- I want the right to criticise the laws of the land


All democracies have laws.



"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

I would seriously doubt that most of the other forums you may access would have the high level of instant reply that this one does.

I should add thats why so many say they are leaving and soon return as there is no other forum like this one.

With so many people visiting here every hour posts are answered almost instantly giving the moderation team almost no time to react.

Other forums I have been on would be lucky to get a reply in an hour or two and sometimes it takes days so its easy for a one or two person moderation team to address the post, on here its obvious they have more than one or two mods and every so often the moderation may feel a little inconsistent because of the individual interpretation of the many, Big deal its not gunna kill me to have a post knocked off now and then.

The site has rules, your an intelligent bloke you can read and understand them the same as everyone else.
I have been moderated a number of times the same as everyone else, I think I asked for a review once and the post was adjusted and reinstated the other times I let it go as I had not followed the rules that I agreed to. Big deal.

The term freedom of speech is often misused in society, It applies to the Political Freedom of speech, you generally cannot say what you want to who you want without possibly breaching other laws.

People are so temperamental and politically correct these days, "How dare you inhibit my freedom of speech" is a common thought we see posted in indignation.
I laugh myself silly with these stupid replies, its so telling of the individual.

I think they should be moderated with the "Grow up and stop being a child rule"

If my kids behaved like some do on here they would get a right old clip behind the ears or at least loose their computer or mobile phone (Kids life support system) for a week.

Remember its only the Internet and its not life changing.

If someone has a problem with the actions of the moderators why don't they discuss it with the moderators? The moderators are more than willing to discuss - even to the point of offering to reinstate moderated replies (albeit usually after being revised).

I can't see how it can benefit anyone if those who are dissatisfied refuse to discuss the matter with those who have upset them but instead just resort to complaining to everyone else about it...

If someone thinks that some action (or inaction) of the ModSquad is inappropriate, why don't they tell it to THE MODSQUAD? Afterall, none of us can do any thing about it that you can't!

Have a read of John (Vic)'s reply above. Might help you see things a bit more realistically. Again you’re indulging in the very thing you accuse the moderators of. Read the rules. I've seen the "passionate discourse" you talk about and it usually involved denigrating, abusing or flaming someone else. It was because of all this that the owners of this commercial site had to implement a moderation policy in the first place. What was your handle before you became Alloy c/t?

As for your bit about abuse by business members, read the rules again. I seem to recall a few of them getting cracked down on for breaching the rules some weeks back so it would appear that things are consistent. What you and a few others seem to be concerned about is not being able to force your views onto others.

John has it right.

Cheers Mick

If someone has a problem with the actions of the moderators why don't they discuss it with the moderators? The moderators are more than willing to discuss - even to the point of offering to reinstate moderated replies (albeit usually after being revised).

I can't see how it can benefit anyone if those who are dissatisfied refuse to discuss the matter with those who have upset them but instead just resort to complaining to everyone else about it...

If someone thinks that some action (or inaction) of the ModSquad is inappropriate, why don't they tell it to THE MODSQUAD? Afterall, none of us can do any thing about it that you can't!

That's a good point re: 'Alert the Moderator' but I guess something like that all takes up their finite time.

Some forum rules are not clearly spelled out, some of them are ambiguous, open to interpretation and so full of holes you could drive a truck through.

Consequently there is no consistency across the moderation team in applying the rules.

Jabiru340 can you elaborate please as to which rules are ambiguous or open to interpretation?

Thy seem pretty simple to me.

John,

Suggest you read the Trolling Rule.

It could be interpreted that your post is for the sole purpose of inciting controversy, conflict, cause annoyance or offence.

Because if I answer your post and go through each rule and pick it to pieces there is no doubt in my mind that I will cause controversy and conflict.

In fact my post could easily be interpreted in the same manner because I have caused you annoyance, correct.

Neither of us have been moderated yet, but I believe we should have.

It all comes back to an individuals interpretation.

You see there is a perfect example of individual interpretation Jab.

I asked you a simple question because I was interested in your views on this matter, you caused me no annoyance although you have developed the view (wrongly) that I am annoyed by your post.

I don't get annoyed by whats said on here in any respect after all its only the Internet and its not going to change my life.
This forum is entertainment, fun and information, I may question or take to task someones view and ask for a further explanation or detail but thats it, Its never personal with me and I turn the computer off and forget whats been said or done as it has largely no further relevance to me.

I would suggest that the individual perception is always going to be a problem because you can't see my face or hear my voice to understand whether I am serious or not, the Mods have to read the entire post to gain the view as to whether the posted comment is in keeping with the thread and gauge its perceived tone and attitude towards the others, not always an easy job in my view.

Example, Coppers can develop an individual perception of how the law should be enforced and be later found by a court to be wrong in that perception and interpretation, its not supposed to happen like that but coppers are human also, mistakes happen in life.

The moderation of any forum is always going to have an element of discretion and the occasional mistake due to individual interpretation, but you know what mistakes do happen and thats why the Mod policy allows you to contact them to explain your side if you so desire and argue that they may have indeed got it wrong.

The forum has been a much better environment since they developed a strong Moderation policy in my view, more relevance and less crap, also cleaned out so many of the bleep stirrers also.
If you want to crap on then write a Blog.

Also remember you have choices available to you also.
If you don't like the way this private business is run you also don't have to come in the door and visit, it costs you nothing to visit (unless you elect to pay for an additional service) and then you are critical of how they run their household, not very polite in my view.

I don't think they make to many mistakes overall and even if they do, so what its not personal as they more than likely don't know you from a bar of soap.

Cheers

P.S.
None of this is an attack or directed to you personally so please don't interpret it as such :-)
Just a friendly discussion between two blokes with perhaps different perceptions of the Moderation Policy:-)

John,

It is a pity that we can't discuss this face to face. I didn't take it that you were necessarily annoyed.

What I was simply doing was to give you an example, based on your reply, where a Rule, in this case The Trolling Rule is open to variable interpretation by a moderator.

Based on that Rule my interpretation of the rule is that if I did go through each Rule and pick it to pieces my action could cause controversy in breach of this Rule.

I understand what theModeration Policy is all about and it's intentions.

The Personal Attack Rule could be a hard one to interpret even though it might sound straight forward. But how does a Moderator determine when it is a genuine personal attack and not friendly banter.

Another is The Chit Chat Rule....what is a covert conversation and how is this type of conversation alienating and inappropriate. The Rule needs to be more clearly explained, maybe by way of example.

I asked the Moderation Team that one some time ago after a fellow was moderated and I didn't receive an explanation other than to contest the moderation.

I suppose this conversation is now bordering on a private chat and in breach of this Rule.:-)

This what I'm getting at sometimes there is a fine line between a breach of a Rule or not and is therefore open to an incorrect interpretation.

From what I have seen there seems to be no consistency in Moderation which simply means most of the rules are open to incorrect interpretation.

By the way I didn't take your reply as a personal attach on me but a healthy debate. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

Yep!! Yep!! and Yep!!

Well put as always mate.