New Rigs

Im not sure about the new Prado or the Touareg but doesnt the Pajero have IRS. I wouldnt touch one if it has. IFS is bad enough, never mind both ends.

Good for the city, but not good for what there supposed to be used for.

Hi Glenn,

We saw a few weeks ago a Touareg towing a Kedron on it's way to Kingfisher camp, at first look it did look a bit small but has the power.

There was a thread a while back here where the owner replied.

What about the 76 wagon as I know you like your lockers and you can order the 76 with factory front and rear. Not as much comfort as the others but a TDV8.

Cheers

Christian

Ignore comments about IRS & IFS. Yes the Prado has good articulation in it's rear axle. But the Pajeros post about 2004 (& yes, I do own one) come with a very capable traction control setup as standard on all models and have a diff lock option for less than $1000. Yes, it will cock a wheel from time to time but these traction aids more than make up for the IRS / IFS. Pajeros also happily take a 2" lift which costs about $1500 fitted and this makes quite a large difference to them off-road.

I have toured extensively with our current Diesel Paj, up steep and rutted high country tracks, through the deserts, On beaches and through muddy outback roads; usually in tandem with a couple of 120 series Prados (one v6, one D4D). In practice they all seem very evenly matched in capability off-road. I'd happily drive either but lean towards the Pajero since I dont like the soggy wallowy suspension of the prado and it's disconnected feel - even in modified suspension form. The D4D though - just needs a little more output.

Now, what about a V10 Touareg?

Pat

HiBerri some thoughts.

Cars are so brought on the buyers perception, not really based on intended use and suitability for that job.

Your top list includes 4 complex small diesels - not a recipe for low cost , fixability and reliability.


On looking at your list the 3lt Patrol is much more capable if any real work has to be done (by the way its 4 in an auto and much lower cost).
I suppose though that its so tainted by engine issues, but honestly that wouldn't be a high consideration in a planned approach that meant you would only keep car inside Nissan extended warranty.
(read this months 4wd action on a 3lt build up).

The Prado - I have tried to like this popular car - but it has the lowest stability of
them all and is just to prone to fall over in bush work for me.
I have not been been able to come up with a work around for this (but still trying- as I believe there once used to be a gyroscopic stability after market device).
When I looked closely at a new one its body shape came in to much toward the rear and simply didin't have the useful room inside it the patrol did, and it has got softer underneath , along with a non-flat floor that makes it difficult to work with.
The engine needs a replacement to , but the petrol is very good (a friend recently got petrol one).



Pajero - We took one with us on recent snow trip so we would have something for snatch practice and it performed its duty well.
Just to short on wheel articulation, range and vunerable gearbox.

Touareg - got more going for it than it gets credit - but difficult/expensive to repair. Performance stabilty etc are not bad but wheel articulation an issue.
Some where here I did test on its porsche cayenne brother , it had issues at the time with hard to replace 20inch wheels , and now the car I used which was $140,000 3 years ago has just been valued for possible sale at $55,000
temping - did the lower Canning ok to.



Honestly, none of those cars can match the current petrol patrol , in performance, stability , driveline strength, relatively low tech and repairable or probably low true lifecycle cost.

I am amazed a D4 is not in the equation seeing it or the D3 has won just about every 4WD drive award for the last few years and is grudgingly accepted now even by Toyota and Cooper centric Australian 4WD.

Much more capable and generally reliable , or are you looking in the past.

Note the test of the Toureg recently in 4WD mag. The failure rate was astounding AFAIR and not trivial things.
Regards Philip A

I see the Toerag has now exceeded the Discos reputation for poor reliability in the US.

Has the new Prado addressed its appalling on road dynamics, or should I say lack of them?

Are the issues with the Nissan 3.0 really addressed?

I was going to comment on the Pajero, but I can't recall hearing or reading anything bad about them yet.

Blaze we have been looking at new vehicles as well, our needs are a bit different to yours.

We need a 4x4 with room and be very capable in extreme off road conditions, this leaves us with two choices, a Patrol 3lt ST or a V8 Troppy.

But having only two in mind we have also had a look at most of the other 4x4's on the market these days.

Prado -----------

Pros
- Toyota build quality.
- Toyota reliability.
- Extremely good fit and finish.
- Good switch gear feel and placement.
- Proven package.
- Excellent fuel carrying capacity.
- Large range of aftermarket parts.
- Availability of replacement parts good.
- OK ground clearance.
- Mid size 4x4.
- Good driving position and forward visibility.
- Feels good on and off road.
- Very comfortable on and off road.
- Good handling on and off road.
- Very capable off road.
- Large range of aftermarket parts available.
- Toyota dealers everywhere.
- Parts availability.
Cons
- Too much comes as standard equipment.
- To many gimmicks.
- Small load carrying capacity.
- Small cargo space.
- Lack of serious off road aftermarket parts.

The Prado is a good proven package with high build quality and finish that will provide reliable comfortable on and off road transport, a very capable 4x4 with Toyota quality and support.


Patrol -----------

Pros
- Nissan reliability?
- Big inside.
- Proven package?
- Excellent load carrying capacity.
- Solid axel coil sprung suspension.
- Extremely capable off road.
- Large range of aftermarket parts.
- Availability of replacement parts good.
- Good fuel carrying capacity.
- Good ground clearance.
- No gimmicks.
- Available in a base model.
- Big towing capacity.
- Large range of serious off road parts available.
Cons
- Poor trim quality.
- Poor fit and finish.
- Poor switch gear placement and feel.
- Bad driving position and forward visibility.
- Noisy and harsh.
- More truck like then car like.
- Big outside.
- Average on road handling.
- Average off road handling.
- To many know breakage issues.

The Patrol is a classic designed 4x4 offering space and excellent off road capabilities with solid axel coil spring suspension. It is showing it’s age and getting left behind by the competition.


Pajero -----------

Cons
- Mitsubishi build quality.
- Mitsubishi reliability.
- Proven package.
- OK ground clearance.
- Mid size 4x4.
- Good driving position and forward visibility.
- Feels good on and off road.
- Very comfortable on and off road.
- Good handling on and off road.
- Reasonable capable off road.
- Average range of aftermarket parts available.
- Fantastic factory warranty.
- Option of factory rear diff lock.
Cons
- Lack of serious off road aftermarket parts.
- Poor fuel carrying capacity.
- Too much comes as standard equipment.
- To many gimmicks.
- Small load carrying capacity.
- Small cargo space.
- Not as good a dealer network as Toyota or Nissan.

The Pajero even that it’s capable for off roading it is more suitable for bitumen and good dirt roads, class leading warranty and the availability of a factory rear diff lock is a bonus but small fuel carrying capacity may limit off road distances.


Touareg R5

Pros
- VW build quality.
- VW reliability.
- Great ground clearance.
- Large range of factory options.
- Mid size 4x4.
- Good driving position and forward visibility.
- Feels good on and off road.
- Very comfortable on and off road.
- Good handling on and off road.
- Very capable off road.
- Option of factory rear diff lock?
- Great towing capacity.
Cons
- Lack of serious off road aftermarket parts.
- Poor fuel carrying capacity.
- Too much comes as standard equipment.
- To many gimmicks.
- Small load carrying capacity.
- Small cargo space.
- Unproven off road.
- Lack of aftermarket replacement parts.
- Poor dealer network.
- Reliable technology unseen before in Australia.

The Tourag is in the same boat as the Pagero even that it’s capable for off roading it is more suitable for bitumen and good dirt roads, build quality, fit and finish is unbelievable but small fuel carrying capacity may limit off road distances and lack of off road credibility and parts is a big down side to a fantastic 4x4 .

Blaze
Really depends on what you are going to do your vehicle and where you are going to go. We faced similar dilemma a couple of years ago, though we didn't consider a Patrol as we deemed it too big and Touareg wasn't in our budget.

We chose a Pajero as it offered superior bitumen and dirt road handling and significantly better purchase value for money.
If I am going to get into trouble in the bush it will be on a dirt road corner, to me the Prado's soft suspension makes it more of a city vehicle compared to the Pajero!

As to articulation, everyone tells me Prado is superior and yes I have come to a halt towing a 1Tonne trailer up a very steep gravel track out of a gorge on a hair pin bend with an erosion bank on it. Very carefully reversed, chose a different line and got through.
Perhaps if you are going to be doing a lot of rough mountain tracks, Prado is be superior in off roading area. But if you are going to be primarily on outback roads (or country bitumen), Pajero would have it.
We will be keeping our vehicle for a few years and probably 300 000km, but if you were turning it over more quickly Prado's seem to have a better resale value which you should consider.

Good point on the Discovery D3 D4, which according to motoring rags have the best on road handling and off road capability. However a lot of motoring rags give them a hard time re reliability and how many service centres are there in the bush? Looks like you would be of to Adelaide for servicing on Touareg or Disco

Mark

Hi,

I have been looking into the new Disco4 diesels - both the 2.7ltr (same motor as in the D3) and the new 3ltr 600Nm@2000rpm monster. Specs look good except when you take it off the tar. Both have computer controlled traction aids but when in max off road height (they have airbag suspension), speed is limited to 40kph - not good in sand hills or when trying to keep up with your mate's 4WD along deep 2 wheel tracks.

Also the 3ltr only comes with 20 or 19 inch wheel rims - and require small walled tyres, (255/50 or 255/55) with only 127mm or 140mm between bottom of rim and the road - so watch out on the gravel that you don't hit a rock where you need a large tyre wall to flex and deform to so prevent cracked or broken rims. The 2.7ltr has 18 inch rims (tyres 255/60) with 153mm between bottom of the rim and the road - a bit better but I would suggest is still marginal. For example the Pajero takes 265/65 tyres to keep 17 inch rims 172mm off the road. These stated heights are best case - an inflated tyre with no load, in practice the separation of rim and road is a bit less with the weight of the car deforming the tyre.

Have a look in here http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/

On the tar the 3ltr diesel Disco4 wins hands down, even at $96k on the road - but these two issues have me looking at other 4WDs.

Cheers
TerryG

We couldn't afford a new vehicle and wanted a "mid" sized 4x4 so it was going to be either Prado or Pajero. We quickly came to the conclusion that the Prado prices were too high and then settled on looking for a good Pajero diesel and finally found one locally with about 43K on the clock.
It's an 07 VRX with all the safety pack, rear view DVD, 5 speed auto etc, and we couldn't be happier.
On road dynamics are great with enough traction aids to perform pretty well offroad. I've still got my GQ if I really want to get into the gnarly stuff.
I'm looking forward to towing our caravan but by all reports the Pajero's perform well at this task as well.
Regards Andrew.

Just got back from my complimentary Land Rover off road training day (in my D4 3.0) designed to show us how to properly use the capabilities of our vehicles. One word, awesome.

If you are looking at vehicles in this price range then you are not serious if you don't consider it. Nothing comes close in almost every department.

I nearly bought a D3 when I chose the Sahara in 2006 but thought I'd wait for the bugs to be ironed out. Ford spent 1.6bn developing the D3 and Tata have made 700 detailed improvements for the D4.

You can get A/T amd M/T in 19's and 20's now and the 2.7TDV6 comes on 18's and you can fit 17's if you want.