Is it true???

Why would $5 for 17 hours (5pm to 10am) of aircon use be a rip off? An aircon of 2.4kW would use (assuming running all the time) 2.4kW x 20c x 17hours = $8.16 worth of power !! Can't expect the parks to pay it ! Especially in the Showgrounds where you probably only paid $10 - $15 max.
A heater is different; nobody can have a heater going flat chat in a van for very long, unless you are red, have pointy ears and carry a fork !

Ian

Ian...I think the 2.4 kW you are refering to is actually 2.4kWr (kilowatts refrigeration which is the nominal heating or cooling capacity of the unit ..rough rule of thumb ...about 1HP) and has nothing to do with watts or energy consumed....

a 2.4kWr unit would use somewhere around 930watts input or 0.9kWh

A nominal 6kWr (nominal 2hp) Aircon uses somewhere around 2800 watts or 2.8kWh

at around 20cents per kW per 24 hours it would cost around $4.50/day for a
1hp unit running flat out all day...but would vary between makes models etc etc

you would need to factor any other revelant stuff such a off peak etc etc

i think my figures are near the ballpark

further Ian..an electrical radiator (elec heater) is not as efficient as a reverse cycle aircond.

eg
a one bar radiator (generally 1 kw) would pull 1kWh if left on for 1 hour

A 2.4kWr reverse cycle aircon will pull 930 watts per hour....


BUT look at the HEAT OUTPUT...the 1 bar elec radiator only gives you 1kW of heat while the AC gives will give you around 2.4kW of heat...for around the same running cost

If you noticed, I wasnt referring to kWhr, which is purely a theoretical number.

My van has a small, almost useless Electrolux a/c fitted. Cooling output is quoted at 3000W (3kWhr in your terminology) but the actual power drawn is 1200W, (5 amps). So, 1200W x 24 hrs = 28.8 ahrs. ( x 20c = $5.76)

Therefore if we look at a van/mh with a decent a/c we will assume a 2400W actual power drawn, i.e. 57.6 ahrs per 24 hours. (nearly $12/day)

I wish people would stop confusing kw with kwh!! Quoting yourself

"A 2.4kWr reverse cycle aircon will pull 930 watts per hour". No !! It will pull 930 watts all the time it is on. It will consume .93kwh per hour or nearly $5 worth of electricity per day. The original poster was complaining about being charged $5 a day.
If you have an a/c large enough to actually be of use, then you will use more than $5 per day ! Have a look at some of the larger vans and motorhomes ! Some of them have 2 large a/c fitted.

In regards to a/c heating I agree that it is the cheaper option. Thats why is is classed as "solar" system. (you are not actually making heat, you are just removing existing heat from the air.) I have just fitted a Heat Pump hotwater system to my house. It works on the same principle. 250 litre, rated 1.2kW, but ony draws about 650W power. And qualifies for the Govt rebate for solar HWS!

BTW, my a/c in the van has a heating function too. But it is not R/C. It actually has a heating element in the airflow. It will pop the 15 Amp cct breaker if started on HIGH. So it draws a lot of current; more than $5 per day !!

Cheers,

Ian

Grab yourself one of these. Will check voltage, frequency and will indicate power useage in watts, total kwh used, current being drawn, power factor, and total cost if you enter the unit price.
Handy gadget, but limited to 10A (2400W)

Ian

Sorry, forgot to add the link

http://www.crazysales.com.au/doss-mains-power-meter_p15239.html

Ian

Sorry, I will do it differently
powermeter

Ian

If you noticed Ian I didnt refer to kWhr either...no such thing as far as I know

kWh , kW or kWr...all with different meanings

930 watts per hour input is the same as .93kWh...I would have thought you would have been able to determine that it would need to run 1 hour to do that?..but I guess I was wrong..duh!

Bloody big aircon if you have a 6kWr system installed in your van..must be a big van I guess...your statement was open to interpretation that you were citing nominal unit sizes for most caravans on the road ..ie a 2.4 - 2.7kWr split system would be around the norm for most vans...but bigger vans do need bigger units...maybe if you had 2.7kWr Daikin split system unit you'd find things different, than that crappy Electrolux thing...lol

"Thats why is is classed as "solar" system. (you are not actually making heat, you are just removing existing heat from the air"
????

let me put you straight...
Firstly...they are not solar systems.....they are air to air heat exchangers
...they do not absorb Solar Radiation!!!

and yes..... They Do Make HEAT!...they extract heat from (let us use heating mode as the example) from the cold outside air even when its zero degrees and let us assume for the sake of this explanation that, that amount is 1 unit...then thru the compression cycle, it, the heat absorbed by the refrigerant from the outside coil, is superheated, and thus gives us >2.7 units of heat, this gives us more heat than just the energy input (electricity consumption)

Disclaimer.....2.7 was the minimum required to meet MEPS in most states to my knowledge..I think its more now..i know it is in SA

Some quotes from your post



" yes..... They Do Make HEAT "

I say "no they dont MAKE heat"

And you say "they extract heat from the cold outside air " YES, I agree !! (or HOT outside air)

This is why they are so efficient. Electricity is used only to transfer the heat from the air to the water, not to generate heat.

Solar energy (heat) is transferred from the sun to the air. A heatpump system (or reverse cycle A/C) then extracts this heat from the air, concentrates it and puts it where it is needed. This is why it is classed as a type of SOLAR energy.

The original heatpump HWSs actually had solar collectors on the roof. They eventually realised that they didn't need them, so they were discontinued.

Any way I got paid $35 each for 30 RECS generated by my HWS. And I got $600 rebate from the Govt for installing a Solar HWS. For $1650 I will call it a solar system !!


And 930 Watts is a reading of the power being drawn at a single point in time ! We use kWhrs to measure the power used over a given time period. e.g. 930 Watts for 1 hour = .93 kWh. I dont argue with your maths, just your terminology.

Cheers
Ian

"This is why they are so efficient. Electricity is used only to transfer the heat from the air to the water, not to generate heat."

mmm we aint talking about water with an aircon for a caravan, so I am thinking you mean air to air heat exchange and not air to water.. if so
then " This is why they are so efficient"...no no no the energy is only used to drive the compressor which causes the outside coil to.....oh heck you aint going to comprehend and or understand this......

what makes the motor go round to make the compressor pump ...electricity...it is during the compression cycle that the refrigerant is super heated and thus we get more heat...how many times do I have to say it...some people just do not listen (read)

"Solar energy (heat) is transferred from the sun to the air. A heatpump system (or reverse cycle A/C) then extracts this heat from the air, concentrates it and puts it where it is needed. This is why it is classed as a type of SOLAR energy."

hahahaha...pardon me Ian....but what happens at night ...no solar radiation so the aircon cant work can it...reminds of the Irish astronaut who was being sent to the sun...he objected saying that he would be burnt to a cinder...mission control said he nothing to worry about cos they were sending him at night

"The original heatpump HWSs actually had solar collectors on the roof. They eventually realised that they didn't need them, so they were discontinued." ...why? it would have been cheaper to run than running a heat pump!! duh!!!
the more you open you mouth the more illogical the info you come out with!!!

As i said above you just do not understand the principals of boyles law and and and .....whoever the other two wizards were, who figured out the theory of refigeration and which was put into practice....

go back to school Ian...or better still go do an apprenticeship in aircon refrigeration and then do get the Advanced Diploma in Refrigeration and Air conditioning so that you and I are on the same level....it aint to late to stop learning ya know

We are obviously talking on two different levels here. Step up, or back off , eh?

Finished

Ian

My father is a permanent resident in a c/p. He is a interstate truck driver so away a lot. His neighbour caught out a tourist that unplugged my dads power (clearly site numbered) and hooked theirs up. Leaving fridge and freezer off. Apparently the meter was running full. Bloody thieves they were lucky he didn't catch them.
When we were researching living in Darwin and nth W.A I can remember extra for aircond. Their power is more expensive over there.

Hi Ian
3.6kw of electricity to run and aircond is a bloody big aircond, that equates to 15.65amps running let alone start up, current wow.

you are getting mix up with units of heat and units of electricity.

example:
a 6kw daikin ( that's 6kw of heat/cool ) draws 2kw of electricity , which is 8.33amps

3.6Kw air cond (3.6kw of heat or cool ) uses 1.2kw of electricity to run it , which is 5 amps, 1.2kw x 20cents = 24 cents per hour

the aircond should run cycle at 60% on time,and 40% off time once it has got to the desired temp, so calculate from there

Regards Bob
ps: I am a Refrigeration and Airconditioning Mechanic and have also got my A class Electrician Licence.
I have more meters than you can poke a stick at so I can do the calc's

G'day Bob,
As previously stated my aircon is 3000Watt (cooling) split system Electrolux. It uses 1200W power (5amps) and as you have stated this costs 24c per hour to run. I can guarantee to you that even in my insulated van this a/c runs 100% of the time if the outside temp is above 30 C. So 24 cents x 24 hours + $5.76 per day to run. So my pretty useless a/c uses more than $5 per day. A bigger one will use more.
The original poster was complaining about having to pay $5 per day to use his aircon. I think this is fair enough, seeing as how it costs the park 76c more than that ! The heater in my aircon unit is an electric element of 1500W , so it could use even more power.

My figure of a 3.6 kW unit was based on what is possible to fit to a large van/motorhome with the limit of 15 amps available to vans at the parks. I will bet that some of the bigger units will have huge A/Cs fitted. And will use them!
Heck, I have seen m/hs with 2 big a/cs fitted.
My whole point here is, I guess, that people mostly do not consider how much power they use ! Especially if it is free !!

Cheers

Ian

"Especially if it is free !! "

where do you get it for free? Only if the site is free, but I really need to know where to find a free site with unlimited power and where its warm enough to need an A/C of 3.6KW in a caravan-cos Im movin there YESTERDAY!

Reminds me of a comment from a friend of mine who hasn't finished building her house yet. At the moment they only have a small hot water system and she said it's great because the one thing that makes the kids have quick showers is the water going cold! Good think since they are on a semi rural block and not on town water!

We lived in the caravan park in Norseman for a while, just on a powered site and I know we gott charged for power according to the meter reading (I think we used like $9 a day or something). It would be a good system to implement for everyone really, but then I suppose you would get more thieving buggers too, plugging into others power points!

I know where I live now there are only a couple of permanents in the local CP, but I do recall one lady saying the owner was complaining about people using their heaters too much in the winter (however in this case I believe the weekly fee wasn't all that cheap so yeah). But all in all I think smaller site fees and paying for power separately would probably make more sense.

I think however the cost of metering each site would force up site fees anyway as it would be a costly exercise in a large park.

Some old parks could do with an upgrade.

We stayed at Big 4 in Caversham in Perth and turned the aircon on one night and blew the breakers in the board in our area of the park.

From what I could gather was a regular occurance.

Yes good point.
We stayed in a park in Perth once too, it was expensive and the neighbour warned us that the site we were on got flooded a few nights before and the tent campers had to vacate. There was like a sewrage drain that was smelling or overflowing near by too. We were in a camper trailer though so it was ok, our stay was pretty good but seemed to be a few issues the park was having, with hot water etc.
Although another generous camper gave us a telly that was given to them and they were finished with, which was great for the kids. We literally had no room to take it with us so left it there for somebody else too.

We are guilty of using a heater in our camper trailer (ceramic radiant thing) because our trip was during the winter and the most freezing night they'd had happend to be when we stayed in Nannup. The kids were little and it was that cold in the morning they were just whingeing and didn't even want brekky, we had to get in the car and go for a drive! The heater had been on all night to keep warm inside the camper.

ruddy banana grizzler...51 aint hot.......might melt butter and me but its not hot...nice temp for a shower...lol