Electronics!!!,I"m over Them.

Hi GN


04 V8 Petrol 100s,





cheers, Axle

Hi Bruce

What runs electronic steering?

Regards GN

Hi GN,
Probably like my Mazda 2 and lots of smaller cars now - electric power steering, rather than hydraulic power. Time will tell how reliable it is. Quite small, under the dash, no hoses or pumps to go wrong. Not sure it's electronic, though, just an electric servo motor instead of a hydraulic motor.
Gerry

GN, my nephew is a toyota mechanic and i was telling him that some manufacturers were talking about electronic steering and he said Toyota have them now. Would not have a clue which models or even if it is in Aus. But the do exist and it is only a matter of time before we have to suffer them here.
Bruce.

Hi Joc45,
I think they were talking drive by wire, not an electrically driven hydraulic pump. The electric pump we could live with I'm sure.

Hi Gazal,
Yeh I understand what you say, and drive-by-wire is possibly out there for vehicle steering (it might be ok for Airbuses, but I still feel uncomfortable about it in a vehicle!) but my little (current) Mazda 2 has a motor drive under the dash on the steering shaft, with no hydraulics. I haven't investigated in depth, but I assume it has some fairly simple servo electrics to turn the motor either way when the wheel is moved. Bear in mind that electric servos have been around since before WWII, so electronics are not necessarily a requirement.
cheers,
Gerry

Wifes Toyota Yaris sedan has it, 06 model no pump or belts to drive it (belts for everything else air,water pump etc) Not sure about other models but hers is also speed sensitive, so the faster you go the heavier it gets, when sitting still you can turn it with your finger, we had speed sensitive in our old statesman as well but not electric, good old belt and hydraulic pump, mind you it spat a seal out, was $200 more for the pump instead of the usual pump due to the speed control, god knows how much it would cost to fix the yaris electric pump or what ever it is if it decided to play up or go bang. Regards Steve M

The big worry with this steer by wire is not the cost of repairs if something should fail, it's the cost in human lives.

Can still turn her wheel with engine off, obviously very hard to turn, maybe if some thing went wrong it would just go like the old hydraulic set up and be hard to turn ?? i Cant imagine that if it failed it would turn the opposite way or anything like that, there would have to be safety overides in the event of a power steer failure, wouldnt there ?? Regards Steve M

I know there might be a greater level of redundancy in built in aircraft but for at least 30 years now the fly by wire concept has been in use in aircraft. That is there is absolutely no physical connection from the cockpit to the control surfaces (ie alerions, rudder, elevators, trim tabs etc). The pilot moves the cockpit control and an electrical impulse is sent to servos which in turn either electrically or hydraulically operate the flying control. I'm thinking that auto design engineers are now sufficiently confident in the reliability of such systems that they can no longer see a reason to not use them in motor cars.
Remember when we did away with the crank handle and introduced the self starter motor..........well it too took a long time for folks to accept that perhaps the starter motor alone will suffice after all :-). But seriously, I believe that each year we are seeing greater improvement in terms of reliability of the electronics in vehicles after all there are fewer moving parts in these electronic system - I would just be a little more comfortable if there was at least some level of redundancy buit into the systems. My 2 bobs worth.

Mate I'm thinking about this sort of thing now believe me!!'

The V8 petrol cruiser is a beautiful thing to drive and feels very solid, but after looking at the whole electrical circuit of everything overall, There is a absolute chit load of things to let you down! It can stay as the shopping trolley, and the landy goes bush, at least you can pick up the bits and tie them back on again ...lol.


Cheers Axle.

Hi Dozer,
I was watching one of Roothy's DVDs recently of a trip they did to the Cape.

There was a late model GU Patrol (not associated with Roothy's mob) with the fancy sensor in the key and the owner had dropped the key in the water and the result was the car would not start.

This was well up towards the Cape, Bamaga I think, no one could fix it so it had to be loaded onto the Ferry for a 400 k trip back to civilisation and a $2000 repair bill at a nissan dealer. Makes you shudder does it not.
Cheers, Bruce.

Yep, the imobiliser key thats neded to start the motor....your stuck if the battery goes flat, or if it gets water in it....all to keep your car in your driveway....
Axle, i can understand your frustration, as thesame thing happened to me...with a cressida i had just bought, it would start fine but wouldnt start when hot, good for the family of 5 with 3 under age of 5. Towtruck would take it away and leave us on the side of the road...3rd time and 3rd auto eleccy, i bought a multimeter and photocopied the wiring schematic and went looking myself.....main efi relay was loosing volts when hot $20 relay, came good when cold.

Hi Bruce,
A lesson learned here - the Patrol owner was a silly boy for not carrying a spare immobiliser key!
A lot of things, when dropped in water, don't work afterwards!
Even a standard non-electronic key, when dropped in the mud and not recovered will spell lots of problems for a vehicle owner. I always make sure the second key is on the passenger when 4wding.
cheers,
Gerry

G/Day Joe n Mel;

The problem is the affordability of the Diagnostic gear for some of the outback workshops, They can cross reference with some things with some scanners but can be a problem, its allright for Toyo to say bring it in but if your a thousand ks away, whats the use of them loll


Cheers Axle

Spot on there, as in the post above, i could rebuild my motor for that....
Like the wheel alignment, good old tape measure and 1/2 an hour and it was done....... yep it uses more fuel btu at the end of the day it is not that much more and yep it is gutless but who cares i am not in a hurry ......... gearbox blows up and a few grand and few hours and heaps around and i am on my way and with parts, the more remote we get the more of the good old cruiser parts can be found.............
Yes the "affordability" of the gear is a problem and to cover it they have to charge more and then it all spirals out of reach for these remote guys so they dont bother to go there, also warrenty is a problem, if you arnt "authorised" then you can be made liable it it all goes wrong, like a computer falure due to a wrong component and there goes a few grand...... and for you the owner, you still have to get to point "B" and have no car in the middle on noware......
I keep looking at new 4wds but keep reminding myself to stick with what works for us ..............
Anyway..... what happened to the "limp home mode" that used to be built into electronics, dont they do it anymore ??????

OH yes!, The limp home mode is there D3 &4 Disco, Criticised of course, They limp everwherel !!,..LOL .. BUT!!.. Better than sitting on the date and going no where,

Cheers Axle

funny you say that, over time the "disco's" had coped flack but just maybe, yep maybe they will be like my car one day, the only reliable car still running ....
man i hate to say that :-)
What do you think was your "cause" for the loose pins, with so much wiring these days and the weight of harnesses hanging off some of these relays and sensors and corragated roads i wonder if that caused it, i have spent time cable tying up all loose wiring for that very reason... and also using a product called "Soft Seal" (CRC brand) on all connections, worked in the pearling industry for a bit and learnt some really good tricks with wiring and connectors, love the stuff ....

Yes!, Weight of wiring hanging off things", not been supported by clips that have disappeared, Flimsy design all round!!, Most people are oblivious to these things, Toyo don't give two hoots, Bring it in" We"ll fix it",.....For a price!!!!,


Cheers Axle

Yeah!, Mech Pete,......Buts thats Suzuki,,,There always been reliable!


Cheers Axle

Yair, I'll agree with you on that one, Axle,
but so is a Series3 Landrover.
It's only got 3 fuses, 1 relay (the indicator switch), an alternator, a starter and best of all a carby. Absolutely no modern electronickery to cause trouble.
Anything else can be fixed with a hammer, screwdriver, cold chisel or a length of "wire cocky soft' from the nearest fence.

Disco

Hi Pete, electronic power steering we can live with provided there is a physical mechanicle connection between the steering wheel and the road wheels.

But once you try and make that connection with a couple of wires, instead of solid metal, you have to add in circuit boards and plugs and the more electronics and connections the more can, and most likely will, go wrong.

I had trouble with the horn in my 80 series so I tracked it down to the relay on the inner guard. I pulled it apart and repaired it. Simple enough, but it failed again after a couple of months. I repaired it again, a couple of months and it failed again so I got a new one, $30 trade. The construction was, in my opinion, too light, too complex and bloody unnecessary.

I could have bought a better one from Dick Smith but it would not have been in the same package so it would not have fitted into the socket and I could not be bothered stuffing around, that's why I bought the Toyota replacement.

This old problem of "Planned Obsolescence" is all very well but couple that up with steering and you have a disaster waiting to happen.
Cheers, Bruce.