Push to rename Rottnest Island

Hi Jon

Australia has been renamed, didn't it used to be called Gondwanaland or something like that.

Cheers

Hmmm no - Gondwanaland is the name given to a past continent that comprised the land masses of Aust, India, Afric, Antartica,and South America. Each split up and went on their merry way.

Yep it was.
Gondwanaland is the name given to the southernmost of two precursor supercontinents

Hi Garrycol and Jon

Okay so once again I am right and I am wrong.

It was Gondwanaland, but it was only a part of it, I can accept that. I guess we are still part of AIAASA (ASIA), just playing with the initials of the countries listed.

Wow, what a diverse range of cultures could have started this country off, I find that amazing.

Cheers

Hi Marc,

Yep, the white fellas that had a pretty big say in naming Australia were really just a bunch of Johnny-Come-Lately's.
Kind of makes you wonder just who the first human or ancestor thereof was the first to set foot here and where he came from.
Relics from long ago like the so called Bradshaws still seem to have everyone stumped as to who actually painted them.
Fascinating stuff

Cheers
Pop

Hi Pop

Please excuse my ignorance, but that is the second time I have heard of the "Bradshaws". Could someone please tell me what the "Bradshaws" are, as I have not heard of them. Before anyone says it, I will also google the "Bradshaws", but some first hand knowledge would be lovely.

Cheers

Hi Marc,

The Bradshaw Paintings are (I'm not an expert in this only what I heard) different to the "normal" style of Koori art. They are also dated a lot older .

A more educated person would be able to fill in my gaps ; ).

Cheers Wilko

Absolutely correct. I went to Florence in Italy only to find out I was in Firenze. Same with almost every other place I've been. Mike

Fortunately some of the early explorers and administrators were nowhere near as paranoid about the use and adoption of indigenous names as some on here appear to be.

We would be far the poorer for not having WONDERFUL indigenous names like Murrumbidgee and Wagga Wagga (even if it doesn't mean 'place of many crows' as we were taught for so many years), Werribee, Yarrawonga, Yackandandah, Cocklebiddy, Grong Grong, Cootamundra...the list goes on.

...not to mention iconic Aussie words such as barramundi, bilby, bindi-eye, bogong (no relation to bogan), boobook, brolga, budgerigar, bunyip, coolibah, currawong, dingo, galah (yep we've all met a few of these fellas), gang-gang, gibber, jarrah, kangaroo, koala, kookaburra, kurrajong, mallee, mulga, numbat, pademelon, potoroo, quandong, quokka, quoll, taipan, wallaby, waratah, warrigal, witchetty, wobbegong, wombat, yabby etc.

These names and words all help to define our unique origins and the rich tapestry of life and history in this great land IMO.

Hey I grew up in Wagga....what does it mean then? I feel my history changing....Mike

Congrats Mike, seems from your posts that Wagga is a place of enlightment (as well as sport).

From: http://www.waggawaggaaustralia.com.au/area_name.asp:
The name “Wagga” is derived from the local Wiradjuri Aboriginal language on whose land the City of Wagga Wagga now grows. It is widely accepted that “Wagga” means “crow” and to create the plural, the Wiradjuri people repeat the word. Thus Wagga Wagga translates as 'the place of many crows'.

There is however some discussion that and some contemporary Wiradjuri people frequently refer to the name as meaning “dancing” or “staggering like a drunken man”. As early as 1838 James Gunther (recorder of the most significant and accurate Wiradjuri material) listed “waggawagga” as meaning “reeling, like a drunken man”. Richards published (in a journal called The Science of Man) some 3000 words of Wiradjuri around the year 1902. He recorded “waggawagga” as meaning “Like to dance” or “Peculiar step”, which was a typical early description of Indigenous dance by people who were unfamiliar with it. That is play, dance about or undertake corroboree and ceremonial dancing.

In terms of the contemporary use of the Wiradjuri language, based on the best authorities available, the word is one of a set of words associated with the word “waganha” (dancing now). These include “waganhi” (danced), “wagagirri” (will dance), “wagadha!” (dance!), “wagambirra” (play or dance about), “wagadyi” (a dance), “wagawaga” (dances (plural)) and “wagadhaany” (dancer).

In contrast the name of the “crow” is “waagan” and its plural can either be “waagangalang” or “waaganwaagan”, both of which require the “n” and the longer “aa” sounds.

Information derived from - Stan Grant and Dr John Rudder, Wiradjuri Language Development Project September 2001

Still prefer the crows derivation (there used to be lots I believe), but I guess it's hard to argue against research.

woops, 'enlightenment'

Peter Sterling to Ray 'Rabbits' Warren: 'don't call it Wagga Ray. You wouldn't say Woy would you?' (true) Ah, but to locals.....

Thanks for that, I'd never heard that meaning before. I think Peter was just having a go at Ray, most people from Wagga just call it Wagga. Maybe we are just too lazy? My wife was in the same class at school as Peter Mortimer and Geoff Lawson...it was tough to be any good at sport at our school (I met her at school), I had to play school league with Steve Mortimer. He ran rings around us, we just made up the numbers if he was on our team or made us look stupid if on the other team. A really nice guy though. Cheers.

Hi Bazooka,

Rabs is from Junee. Not Wagga.

Cheers Wilko

Thanks Wilko, didn't know that. Sterlo of course grew up in Wagga. The on air banter was quite a few years back and I think it was about the time that Wagga authorities (council?) were running a campaign to get people to use the full name. I also grew up in Wagga (Wagga) and as Mike says locals always used the shortened version. Thought Sterlo's comment was quite witty at the time - who on earth would call Woy Woy, Woy?

Hi Marc, got to agree with you. Recognise the traditional name but leave the Geographically named place as is, it's part of our history.

"Our", includes the recent (historically speaking) European settlers and the Nyoongar's as the traditional owners.

Duncan
What about the original inhabitants' history? Read the thread on Fraser Is/K'gari - the dual name issue has been argued there. No obvious negative effects since Uluru and Kata Tjuta were renamed. I doubt if the sky will fall in with Rottnest either.

hear hear.

Hi Bazooka

I am sure that you are correct. I just find it amusing that I still hear many of the Arrente people (the traditional owners) refer to Ayers Rock, or Uluru, which ever name comes out first. They couldn't really give a damn, but that is just how things happen.

Unfortunately, and the truth is, many times it is so called do gooders and legal people whoi have run out of things to do to irritate things, and they find a small inciden, blow it out of proportion, and then get legal action started.

Many years ago a so called Elder from the Nyoongar people went overseas and was wearing a kangaroo hide, saying it was his spirit brother. My wifes father went to a coastal salt water community some years ago, and through proper ceremony became a brother to the dugong. None of his descendants can EVER hunt, eat or hurt a dugong because of this ceremony. It makes us wonder how much is convenience and how much is true, and it makes all Aboriginals look foolish, and that is being done by Aboriginals. They are not recognised by tribal people in the desert.

Something else to think about

Cheers

"It makes us wonder how much is convenience and how much is true,"
Agree,
About twenty five years ago in Byron, An older( not an elder of the local people) Aboriginal Lady came forward with a metal stick/rod about 12" long and about 11/2" in diameter. She claimed it came from the dream time.
It was carbon dated to the 18 hundreds. It was a bolt from a sailing ships rudder. The Sand miners had documented the wreak each time that they had mined the beach at Tallow's.
At the time that part of the beach was closed, the proposed high school was put on hold.
Another thing that get up my nose is the smoking ceremony.
I have come to the understanding that it was only one or two tribes that used this around Victoria, and now it seem every time I turn the telly on there is a smoking ceremony somewhere.
Now to the people that it was part of their culture, how do they feel about others 'Ripping' them off?
So you are right about 'how much is convenience and how much is true'

I guess this will always happen.
And I don't know what the answer is.
Cheers

Hi Jon

I am going to ask you to back pedal there for a minute my friend.

Smoking is still used extensively in the various areas of the Kimberleys and the Nothern Territory, and it goes back thousands of years. It is used for several reasons, and quite rightly so. Unless you put a spoecific example forward there, I rthink you could be jumping the gun a bot so to speak.

There are things that people cannot and / or will not understand, and that is their right. The basic answer comes down to, if it not affecting you and your everyday life, and someone needs to believe in something, then why be concerned.

Todays society believes that a "being" came to the world about 2000 years ago and performed a lot of miracles and started a belief system called Christianity. I respect a lot of friends, black and white, who follow Christianity, it definitely adds purpose to their lives and good on them.

I cannot understand such blind faith and belief, but I accept that people do. It does not affect my life so I do not concern myself with it, and I wish them well with what they believe. It really isn't hard.

Cheers

Sorry if I got that wrong, I was under the impression, some years ago that it was the case. Each tribe used it for a different purpose.

"There are things that people cannot and / or will not understand, and that is their right. The basic answer comes down to, if it not affecting you and your everyday life, and someone needs to believe in something, then why be concerned"

This very true.

Hairs and Fysh, the indigenous person who claime the artifact came from the dreamtime was being culturally accurate. Dreamtime doesn't mean the mythical past as most white people think (although it can mean that). Indigenoue people just don't see time in our sense. Any time ( interestingly, including the future) that is not part of immediate experience) becomes dreamtime.

Hi Mfewster,
You had to of been there.
None of the Local Aboriginal community had ever heard of this woman before, it was reveled later that she was not even of the Bundjalung people. Sorry I left that out of my comments before.
Yes, I understand that their concept of time is different to mine and I do understand some of their ways.

Cheers

"reconciliation" ?? Only thing the constant cry of poor fella me , rename this , traditional that , does is great a bigger divide , what is there to reconcile , the past is the past , a "sorry" for what ? For doing what was the norm at the time , bit like blaming the grandson of Yamoto for his [ Yamoto's ] war crimes.

The people who received the apology have a very different outlook on the importance and significance of it. The Government is the same one that now knows that it made mistakes in the past which was what it apologised for. As far as renaming things goes, who cares, we'll still call them what we choose to as Marc said.

Hi OzTroopy

I am absolutely certain that this has nothing to do with reconciliation at all. I believe, as do my wife and her people here, that reconciliation has already happened.

White people have reconciled themselves to the fact that c=black people exist and are equal, and black people have accepted that white people are here and are equal. (I am not speaking for the city black fellas who don't have a chip on their shoulders, it's a log).

People (of all races) whjo have travelled around this beautiful country, away from mthe politics and crap in the cities, must have found what the REAL Australia is about, and what the REAL Australians (no matter their race) are about.

There are really lovely poeple in the cities, towns, communities and outback, just as there are ratbags everywhere. I guess for the sake of peace, we could just say, "You call it what you need to call it, but we will know it as we know it and call it the same as we always have".

An interesting point to think about. When I first met my wife, we were NOT allowed to get married, she was not seen as a person. Her permit to be in town after dark was under the Flora and Fauna Act, and that was in the 1970's. I reckon we have come a long way since then, for which I am thankful, and I am even more thankful that my wife is seen as a human being, because it is me that is the mongrel, not her.

Cheers

Sorr people, that is black people, don't klnow where the c= came from, but I have taken my granny off my lap when I type.

The greatest impediments to 'reconciliation' are closed minds and ignorance. As I said in the Fraser 'discussion' let the experts decide on the validity of the dual names but if you think you know better put in a submission to the relevant State authority.

The almost manic support for 'Ayers Rock' escapes me I must admit. After all it was named for a 'politician'/administrator (gasp!) purportedly because William Gosse was enamoured with Henry Ayers' daughter (well that's one story).

Fair call Bazooka

If and when it directly after me or my extended family, I would not hesitate to put in a submission. In the case of this land, there was no formal renaming, the area is known as Lake Gregory, and the Paruku IPA. Both names are accepted by all people here, I mean is nothing more than something by which to recognise the place.

Cheers

Look guys, does the whole Rotto thing really matter. It has never been a popular spot for us to take our fourbys.
Those in WA will always call it Rotto, not Rottnest or whatever other made up mumbo jumbo lets be poltically correct wont really mean anything aboriginal name they give it.

All need to worry about is not getting bogged next weekend.

Hooroo

Thanks for that piece of brilliant observation Hooroo, really added to our enlightenment. Congratulations on the appointment also.

Which appointment is that?

Old Girl,
Totally agree after watching him on TV tonite.
What a great human being and knows what he is talking about.
Duke

I call it Ayers Rock..........................

;-))

Pop got to agree with you on that one Subi oval will always be Subi oval no matter what.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!