Gu Patrol is 4 x 4 of the year

Submitted: Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 13:49
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I see that 4x4 Monthly gave the yearly award to the petrol 4800 Patrol, the best diesel was the 4.2 tdi Patrol. The toyota Land cruiser lost out because of its "Girlish" Independant front end. Lets hope Nissan in its wisdom sticks with the Solid front end when it brings the next generation Patrol out. If Nissan stick to the twin beams, it may be the only really capable 4x4 left. Regards Michael
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Reply By: srowlandson - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 17:00

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 17:00
Add up the scores, you'll be surprised to see the Landcruiser had the highest score.

IFS isn't 'girly' nor is it going to affect offroad performance all that greatly, it is yet another myth in the 4wd world.

Steve
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 18:51

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 18:51
it seems to be a 4x4 monthly sticking point, IFS=reduced offroad ability, forget that 99% of us wont find the limits of an IFS 4b, it seems a little unfair, although the Patrol is a good unit anyways.Laterally Literal
Seriously Cerebral
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Follow Up By: Member - Nick (TAS) - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 19:19

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 19:19
Yeah,i agree,the Cruiser had lost before it even started.There starting to get on your nerves with all IFS crap.
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Follow Up By: Prado Boy - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 20:14

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 20:14
4X4 Monthly - the most biased and predictable 4WD Mag on the planet. If its new - it wins (4800 Patrol motor = 'new')... Or if it's got a "percieved" weakness - it's canned (IFS Cruiser = 'old' & perceived weakness). What a crock! 4X4 and their 'extreme' angles miss what the vast majority of 4WD owners in this country want anyway. So what if the cruisers got an IFS front end! Fact is it is way more than capable of handling everything that most Aussie 4WD'ers will throw at it - as stock. Some minor after market mods turn them into awesome beasts. Same for the Patrol. These two vehicles are much of a muchness IMHO.

Ignore what 4X4 says - those guys are full of it. When working out the 4BY that's right for you anyway. Work out what you want and what you can afford - then chose carefully after many test drives and chats to people who own 'em and use 'em how you want to use 'em.

My 20c worth
Prado Boy
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 16:13

Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 16:13
Biased.. look at Toyota 4x4 Mthlys history on Yota winning regardless of the competition, and lets talk biased..

"Fact is it is way more than capable of handling everything that most Aussie 4WD'ers will throw at it - as stock."

Ya see not eveyone wants to drive fire trails... so articulation and traction are important to some.. also modifying IFS is lots more than coils, so loses out again.... And on that theory, so could the Jackaroo, and a dozen others.

Then we could go to cost, the $1000s extra for IFS, you could put towards driver training, fridge, storage, cargo barrier and a radio...

So thats my .02c worth...
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Follow Up By: srowlandson - Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 16:20

Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 16:20
Bruce,

A few incorrect comments mate:

Upgrading IFS is no more than a Solid front end, you still need 2 shocks, 2 coils buddy.

Also, Articulation etc can be the same in a IFS vehicle as a Solid Axle, the limiting factor is when both wheels go up, the diff is down. That is the biggest negative Factor... not lack of articulation etc etc which your going on about.

Also, IFS comes with a positive, on full droop, both wheels will fall as low as they can to gain traction, where as a Solid axle vehicle tends to then want to twist up and roll the diff on an angle to get the opposing wheel down.

Maybe it is time you either:

Went on a few trips with some IFS Trucks and REALLY look at how they work, or even get one to take away for a weekend and see. I am sure you will be surprised, as myself and other new IFS owners were when first driving them.

You can't base the info you post on what you have heard, or think happens.

Steve
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 16:29

Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 16:29
yup, 2 shocks for your playdoe etc, but try a 100 series like the others above are talkin..

bloke at the camp yesterday was stating he was quoted $2200 for a mild lift in his 100.. I laughed!

My 6in suspension lift and engineers was less than that!

Ive also played with 100's with IFS (Its Fubar Suspension) on weekend at Robe, they suffered in ruts lots on the beach.. Lots of other factors, like not wanting to listen to us saying 15psi in tires, but hey they stayed there we didnt..

The sand was Soft, and once out of the ruts, you were fubar... but we did get thru some virgin beach sections down Carpenters rocks way without them...

Cant wait for next Robe Trip, not stayin in Beachport, will go to somewhere respectabe.
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Follow Up By: Michael - Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 17:38

Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 17:38
Sorry guys, I actually posted this post with "tongue in cheek", just to get some response to what people think about the IFS. I remember only 6 or 7 years ago there was heaps of guys with modified 4x4 Hilux's, when Toyota dropped the solid axle, so the following dropped off also.
Most of the guys looked around as their trucks got a few years on them and bought 80 series. Now i see a lot ot the hard core Totota guys buying Patrols, mostly 3.0 TDI's. So i see the ridgid front as being very important to a lot of people, especially if they want to mod them, even if only minor modifications. I'm on to my 2nd GU 4.2 td, i personally wouldnt buy a non ridgid front vehicle, i'm hoping Nissan dont go along with the sheep and change the front for no good reason. Untill now I always thought there was nothing wrong with Toyota's, it was a matter of choice, but with the IFS now, i think the choice is getting easier for even the hard core Totota owners. Besr regards to all, Michael.
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Reply By: diamond(bendigo) - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 20:47

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 20:47
what can one say perfect choice.
the only people who will disagree will of course be landcruiser owners.
ps im only kidding
back by popular demand
:-)
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Follow Up By: Member - Glenn(VIC) - Thursday, Nov 06, 2003 at 22:11

Thursday, Nov 06, 2003 at 22:11
now now Diamond...Just Do It!

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Follow Up By: diamond(bendigo) - Thursday, Nov 06, 2003 at 22:20

Thursday, Nov 06, 2003 at 22:20
my point exactly thats a cruiser i see in your pic isnt it lololback by popular demand
:-)
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Follow Up By: Member - Glenn(VIC) - Thursday, Nov 06, 2003 at 22:27

Thursday, Nov 06, 2003 at 22:27
And proudly I must say. Still haven't found a picture of St Thomas yet to replace it with, but I do have Glayva Man...heheheheheJust Do It!

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Follow Up By: diamond(bendigo) - Thursday, Nov 06, 2003 at 22:30

Thursday, Nov 06, 2003 at 22:30
now now glenn
lolback by popular demand
:-)
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Follow Up By: Member - Glenn(VIC) - Thursday, Nov 06, 2003 at 22:38

Thursday, Nov 06, 2003 at 22:38
I don't think that I would be game to. The Glayva Man is so powerful, he can defeat two bull ants with a single finger, pack up a camper trailer faster than a speeding bullet..Just Do It!

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Reply By: sean - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 21:29

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 21:29
I simply never want to own a fourby that is IFS. Simple as that. I would prefer leaf springs than IFS.

And IMHO the Nissan 4.2 deserves recognition becuase stock standard it will travel all over oz and back hundres of times. Its a capable, proven and reliable vehicle with good carrying capacity, and for me thats what a fourby is all about.

Sean
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Follow Up By: Michael - Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 17:45

Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 17:45
HI Sean, its easy to get into trouble, even the best and most experienced 4x4 drivers get into trouble , I like my Patrol, i like something that will give me the best chance of getting out of it.... Michael
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Reply By: charlie - Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 01:09

Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 01:09
I own an 80 series t/d and enjoy the articulation of the front end. If people believe that the IFS front end is anywhere near as capable then they are mistaken. I want nothing more than to upgrade into a 100 in about a year prefferably the t/d because it is a great motor, but it is too low and I have seen them have trouble over washouts that I crawl over. Often times when crossong ruts with an IFS 100 series of a mate I see a wheel in the air and lots of rear wheel spin where I walk over the same obsticle. I do have a 2-3 inch suspension lift but expect I would have a lot better articulation and capability before I put the aftermarket suspension in than the standard IFS.

If you want a fwd that doesn't handle like a car but fairly close to it, get IFS. It will still be only in between a good off road (not including gravel, read "outback road") and a semi decent car. If you want a fwd for what it can do and get you up that rutted hill go beam axles. I bet many-most fwdrivers find places that they cannot go and wish they could that are not even close to extreme and I believe that you need wheels on the ground to get you there. I am only hoping Toyota gives the options in the future but know the premium models will have the road going and soft roading in mind. What a shame.

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Follow Up By: Brian - Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 08:44

Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 08:44
Just a thought charlie, I was under the impression that the lower spec 100 series were still available in beam axle?? You may be still able to upgrade? but don't quote me I ain't no expert!!! LOL..... But my two cents worth here on this subject.... Australian 4X4 Monthly IMHO is very Toyota biased.... but is very much against IFS and as far as the average 4X4'er goes, IFS will probably get you the same places as live beam... that is until you want to go to extreme stuff, challenges and comps etc on which case you might (MIGHT) find that IFS will lack. And lets face it, the mags views on IFS and Toyota are just that, their views...I was delighted to see the Nissan clean sweep in the 4WDOTY....
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Follow Up By: Rhubarb - Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 10:31

Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 10:31
Brian you can still get the beam axle with the base 4.2 Diesel model.
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 17:50

Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 17:50
Brian,

It must break their hearts to bag a 'yota cause of an IFS, but you can clearly see that 4X4's clear bias is to ultimate offroad experience and ability even if this means bagging Roothy's beloved Toy'sLaterally Literal
Seriously Cerebral
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Follow Up By: Michael - Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 17:51

Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 17:51
HI Charlie, i think most new Landcruisers will be sold to Toorak and Mosman mums to take the kids to skool. The IFS is much better on the roundabouts that solid axles. Michael
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Reply By: Rhubarb - Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 10:34

Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 10:34
The mighty Defender won the off road section of the test and easily had the best wheel articulation.

That's what matters for me! :)
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 17:47

Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 17:47
Why ... you must have a Defender, words like ergo-nomics, and cre-ature com-fort, sound-proofing and the lovely acronym NVH have little need in a Landy owners diction.

Stay sane Rhubarb!!

Cya in the bush, where the Landy is King.Laterally Literal
Seriously Cerebral
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Reply By: ChrisB - Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 12:32

Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 12:32
I would have like to see the live axle deisel 100 series (GXL) tested. I've got one and love it and was really dissapointed not to see it tested nor the troopie. Why only test the IFS do they think Toyota only produce one model???? Not so!
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Reply By: chrisfrd - Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 14:10

Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 14:10
4x4 monthly biased? What a load of horse-siht!

READ the article. They used OBJECTIVE testing methadologies. Same as with everything they do. (Take the snatch strap comparo for example!)

It is a simple engineering fact that the landcruiser IFS is just not up to the job in the same way as the Patrol front end. It physically can't be due to it being lower, not cross-linked and too rigid for any 4x4 situation. The facts are that you have to drive the truck harder to do the same work, when compared to the same 4x4 without IFS.

The magazine compared unmodified trucks, in real life situations and came out with an objective and factual result. If it was me, I would never consider the Landcruiser to be better than a Patrol, due to the fact that the Toyota company still insists that the best location for a spare wheel is UNDER the car!

Quiet simply, you can't satisfy everyone, but please make sure that you understand what they are trying to test, be OBJECTIVE and pick the best for your driving requirements.

Being that I own a GUII 3.0 Patrol (fairly modified) and drive a work-supplied IFS Landcruiser (fairly modded too!), I must say that I much prefer the Patrol's off-road capabilties, but the Landcruiser is nicer in the build-quality department.

I keep smacking the front-end in on the cruiser......
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Follow Up By: Tony - Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 14:45

Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 14:45
I keep smacking the front-end...........One might call that driver abuse.
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 16:17

Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 16:17
Also remember one magazine in SOFT Sand got a mighty 54ltrs to 100klms with the 4.8!

What an engine!

Bring on the 5.6 V8 Diesel from American Nisasn, keep coils, and destroy Yota forever...
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Reply By: Brian - Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 20:55

Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 20:55
Objective??? I'm objective!!! Very objective!!! Honest!!
But seriously folks... Australian 4X4 monthly is my favourite off road mag... I own a subscription to it!! I love the articles.. I love the fact that you or I can get our trucks on the Drivers Profiles page.. or even as a featured article! But Biased???? Of course they are!!! Very... Toyota's rule over there! And why??? One reason... and it has nothing to do with IFS... It's to do with the superior build quality..... But BEFORE everyone jumps on me for this... think about it... across the entire range of Toyota product.. from the Corolla (can you still buy them new?) to the top-of-the-line 100 series they are the best built japanese car! There in lie the reason for their biasness (Is that a real word??) And anything they give Patrol (or Disco or Paj or whatever) it is given grudgingly. Remember, the opinions expressed about trucks/products/fridges/snatch straps is just that.... THEIR opinion!!!!!!!!!
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Follow Up By: Brian - Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 21:01

Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 21:01
Shoot!!! I forgot to mention in the above rambling that I am a very proud Nissan Patrol driver!!!!!!!!!!!!
Whew....did I evade getting shot????
Cheers
Brian
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Reply By: Member - Eric- Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 23:35

Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 23:35
I dont understand what all the fuss is about . I love my cruiser and I love my riggid front axle . When it comes time to update the cruise , Ill either purchase a Patrol , if i want some luxury , or I'll purchase a standard Cruiser that still comes with a riggid front end and no constant 4x4 . Guys if you want a cruiser v8 with a few extral . Order a standard and ask them to fit what you want . At the end of the day it might cost a couple thousand more , but what a beast you will have . I agree with Truckster on the front IFS , works great on the black top , but i wouldnt be caught dead in the bush with one . Another point I may add , someone mentioned that it costs the same to modify a 1fs , 2 shocks 2 springs they mentioned. Please help me here , where are there springs in the front of a IFS ? isnt there torsion bars instead ?? i think there are a million treads here with problems with these things .Venus Bay
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Follow Up By: ChrisB - Thursday, Nov 06, 2003 at 09:23

Thursday, Nov 06, 2003 at 09:23
Eric,

If you want luxury and a Cruiser go for the GXL non-turbo deisel inside it's identical to the IFS model and it's still got a rigid front axel and constant 4WD. I got mine new for mid $50K last december and if you want more power, put in an aftermarket turbo, it'll still be cheaper than the IFS model with all the benefits of live axel.

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Follow Up By: Member - Eric- Thursday, Nov 06, 2003 at 17:27

Thursday, Nov 06, 2003 at 17:27
another great point , another reason why this silly bikering should stop , from all the hard header ifs freak lol . Relax just sturring guys Venus Bay
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Saturday, Nov 08, 2003 at 00:10

Saturday, Nov 08, 2003 at 00:10
Eric, on IFS vehicles the coil springs at the front are called "helper springs". They are designed to assist the damping effect of the shock absorbers and are made of very light material such that they are practically invisible, thats why they cost so much. Many an IFS Toyota has been lifted and they have not used the longer "helper" springs and they have failed to impress off road.

Its a Toyota secret they are trying to keep under wraps.Laterally Literal
Seriously Cerebral
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Reply By: JD - Thursday, Nov 06, 2003 at 01:11

Thursday, Nov 06, 2003 at 01:11
Still stock standard, still rescueing modified GQ's, still enjoying IFS, still greater range, still cruising.....

...or maybe it is just the driver!

JD
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Follow Up By: Member - Eric- Thursday, Nov 06, 2003 at 20:40

Thursday, Nov 06, 2003 at 20:40
what were they stuck in a gutter in Toorak ?? only playing mate , hope your having fun with it .Venus Bay
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Reply By: Member - Glenn(VIC) - Thursday, Nov 06, 2003 at 22:13

Thursday, Nov 06, 2003 at 22:13
Didn't like the fuel economy on the Patrols though.Just Do It!

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Reply By: Member - Russell - Friday, Nov 07, 2003 at 22:04

Friday, Nov 07, 2003 at 22:04
Can't you still buy RFS 100 series in GXL 1HZ diesel form, as well as the standard wagon? That would be ok with some mods to the engine. The old 4.2 TD nissan would be fine with some power up work, a la what they should have done anyway. I don't care - buy what you like!Russell S
Prado RV6
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