A very lucky family in this water crossing

I'm sorry Brian, but this isn't a 'simple' error, this is a flagrant breach of duty of care, I agree with the post comments, a stupid stupid man who not only endangered his rescurers but his own family.

If I was in child services I would slap this idiot with child endangerment, there was a reason that the signs at Engineers Bridge at Holsworthy stated,

Whilst crossing bridge in any vehicle, passengers must alight and cross on foot, after vehicle has transversed the bridge, As an artillery driver at the time in my 6WD International, I asked the Major, why is this so?

His reply, Well if the bridge collapses, we only lose a vehicle and driver, the way he said it was humourous if it wasn't so serious.

Now I would hazard a guess, but his mate was other side of river filming this 'adventure' or what, the cameraman has been waiting all this time for an idiot to drive across, a complete set up thats gone horribly wrong.

Yeh yeh, come on over, I did it, its safe, I got through didn't I, you'll make it no worries.

No need to apologize mate.... I probably didn't explain my thoughts enough.

Your cameraman comment has me thinking... LOL... I thought initially that it was someone "stranded" on THAT side who just happened to be filming it. I can't see how anyone would have driven over it. Maybe not...

This is a good example of why I believe that off road driver training should be mandatory when people buy a 4WD. Perhaps Mr. LC100 in the video had just bought this cruiser and packed the family in for a trip. Confronted by this causeway, he says "Ha... no problem for us, we're in a 4WD!!!" And the rest is history! After all, that's what the advertising media portrays isn't it?? (Think of the X Trail ad...)

He may not have known any better. For us, who DO know better, we just look at it and see the immediate danger. He obviously didn't.

I also agree that he needs a slap around the ears, but followed up with some driver education.
Although what odds that his missus and kids NEVER went in a 4by with him again??

Cheers

Brian

interesting comments comes out of the woods when these sort of things happen, yes he was an idiot to even think he could get accross but he did it because he thought he could get accross.......
one big problem we seem to be drifting into is how we love to shift blame and point fingers..... his answer could well have been "there were no signs and it was open" and he will probally get a lawyer to get compo for him now .... and look at some commemnts .... 4wd training ??????
We never had it, we never had signs and roads closed we all learnt because we had to and now can make a judgement based on what we see .........
I worked for a big "company" and they got people in to work in remote areas in the NT, they had limited or no 4wd skills so they got a trainer, the best so they thought, he did 4wd training for the army in the NT so on paper he was the best they could get ..... it was an absolute joke, he taught them to have NO respect for vehicles, he even had them crossing water crossings with water coming over the bonnet and NO SNORKLE and yes i have the photo to prove it, he taught to drive simply to get to the desination with no respect or regaurd for the vehicle and what condition it would be in when they got there.....
I see people out bush that "say" they are experts in 4wd's and they get into trouble, what would they say if they were told they had to do a training course before they could get back behind the wheel ... yeah right .... and most fatalitys are people who should have known better ..... and have had a 4wd for some time ... yes some are newbies but most are peolpe that should have known better ......

Hi Joe,
I see where you're going with that, but I am curious about a couple of comments.... and please don't misunderstand me... I'm not having a go at you, just like I realize that you weren't having a go at me. Just having a quiet discussion.

"and look at some commemnts .... 4wd training ??????
We never had it, we never had signs and roads closed we all learnt because we had to and now can make a judgement based on what we see ..."

and

"I see people out bush that "say" they are experts in 4wd's and they get into trouble, what would they say if they were told they had to do a training course before they could get back behind the wheel ... yeah right .... and most fatalitys are people who should have known better ..... and have had a 4wd for some time ... yes some are newbies but most are peolpe that should have known better ......"

The first sentence infers that we have learnt by necessity and we now know what to do.

The second sentence infers that that knowledge is not enough!

My theory on driver training is for newbies.... not people who have had 4x4's on the farm all their life. It would be too hard to police that now anyway.

I think that when someone purchases a 4wd, new or second hand, they should complete a basic skills course before they can register the 4wd. I know it won't happen, I know there'll be people that would do the course and promptly forget the basics anyway, and I know first hand that in the heat of the moment, wrong decisions or wrong technique can cause a lot of drama.

We traveled throughout the outback last year, had a wonderful time. The only problems we encountered (involving drivers) was people who were ignorant of off road driving skills.


I have done a DAP course through our club, and recommend it highly to anyone. I have no affiliation with driver training groups at all, just a happy camper!! ;-))

Cheers

Brian

Hi Brian .....
It does read like i am having a "crack" at ya, ... sorry, i do agree with you in context, i dont think the new buyer 4wd training would ever get off the ground though but i see your point, i have seen what i dread it would turn into and it gave all these guys such a false sence of security that they probally were worse off, a few even rolled there cars in the early days, but that was fine by the company as they had all done there "4wd training" so they were covered .......
Maybe it comes to a weight rating like trucks ..... really dont know as i guess there is no answer eh ...
I do love the words "" Just having a quiet discussion """
Cheers buddy
Hope the program is still going well (Conways Kids)
Joe

This sort of driving behaviour infuriates me. If you must cross a fast flowing body of water, walk up stream on the river bank about 30 metres,pick up a reasonable size stick about the thicknes of a walking stick,throw it into the fast flowing water and the walk down stream at a steady pace. If the stick beats you back to where you first started to walk from. THEN DON'T DRIVE ACROSS WATER!!!

Orejap

Sorry but I can't let this go through to the keeper

This is c r@p advice, in a thread talking about responsibilities and taking into account ALL conditions.

Sadly, some ppl read this and may take this rule fro granted, not seeing the soft sand or big hole in the crossing because they watched how fast a stick floats?

Really

CSeaJay, You can take it or leave it but if you are really serious about crossing a fast flowing body of water it is not crap advice & I realise I have not probably explained myself fully. BEFORE you even try or attempt to walk a river crossing & obviously checking for rocks,holes & sinking sand or non firm bottom of river/creek you do a risk assessment & if your first impression is "Hmm don't know about this" THEN DON't.....this is what I am trying to alert people to. First priority is not to cause injury to myself & passengers put others in harms way & wreck my vehicle. By throwing a stick in the water & watching it swept away is an assessment many 4WD instructors & emergency service authorities teach as an aide to making a more careful decision. If it is flowing to fast...no use walking it & checking for rocks,sand or other hazards...don't bother crossing is my message. You may have more informative advice & have been trained to the highest degree in 4WDing so please pass on your experience to others. As for the original post if you are suggesting that I would bother throwing a stick into that raging torrent then that is an incorrect assumption on your behalf because ANYONE with half a brain would look at that situation and just say "NO WAY I am not risking the lives of others to go across that". My final bit of advice NEVER let others influence you in YOUR decision making. IF you look at a situation and you think "Don't know about this. I don't feel comfortable" Then don't. Wait,reassess & follow your gut instinct.

i will absolutly back "Orejap" on that as a tried and proven method that i also use and recommend, i live remote and i am mostly not on holidays when having to make a water crossing and the principle of it is spot on, yes it is probally only the first thing to take note of and make a decision on step one that is going into the water, yes there will probally be holes and soft sand ect but that also a sensible person will also look out for ....
I have also taught newbys and staff that exact method, simply put you dont bother going any further if it does not pass that test, at that stage you have stayed well out of the water and the car also is well away from the water, remember some crossings have crocs in them so crossing on foot is not an option ...
And spot on again, YOUR gut instinct is what rules ....

Just to cap it all off we have a small truck washed off the side of the Gregory crossing up here in the gulf just a few days ago, it was being driven by the MANAGER of a local orginisation here and he drove to it and over it when the road was closed for a start (should be sacked just for that !!!) and he simply should have done all the checks namely the "stick" check, if he had he would not have even attempted to cross it, yes a MANAGER setting the example for a LOT of workers ..... nuff said on that one eh....
Cheers
Joe

Guys

What I am saying is that one should NOT rely on this one method only, which was implied but now corrected so we are singing off the same sheet. Yes you could do the stick thing but STILL DO NOT CROSS before walking, feeling the pressure, feel/see where the holes are and how soft or frim the surface is
Only when there is no doubt does one cross, not simply after watching a stic flow by a certain speed.
I should have explained this better in my original follow-up - apologies

No sticks needed :-) Most creek crossing I do you can not walk down the bank and throw a stick let alone walk back to see if it beats you.

I can also assure you I have crossed many a water flow where the stick would have beaten me by a mile :-0.

Best rule is - If you can not walk it safely you can not drive it - I guarantee he could not have walked that crossing.

So get out and look and go for a wade, but of course that takes common sense as well - no use going out too far and getting washed off yourself :-)

Cheers Tony

Unc...I just said the exact same thing to my wife before I read your comment. Great minds think alike.
Fab.

Yep Fab, and after watching the footage again, there is absolutely no hesitation when he even gets to the edge of the crossing, just pedal to the metal and straight into it.!

I wonder if he's related to this bloke either way niether of them belong behind the wheel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVLvkfb3huM

That Patrol was extremely lucky, I think he got his back wheels cought up on some thing that stoped him being dragged any further down stream and was extremly lucky he managed to get some traction. The other clown in the cruiser well enough said above, but see his wife just give the thumbs up when getting away in the boat like nothing major had just happened or the fact the the kids and themselves could have been killed. ...................

Yes I agree - That's what I thought as well - If so they should know better, there is concrete strips on the upstream side. You must be able to see a full 3 of them (from memory) before it is safe to cross

I can see no concrete strips at all (If it is the Bloomfield)

People like this make it hard for all of us that tackle water crossings within a safe limit.

That right is being taken away because of too many fools

Cheers Tony

I just pulled out a picture I have of the Bloomfield crossing and yes it appears to be the one
CJ

I live in a small village and the one road out crosses a weir which becomes impossible to cross after a bit of heavy rain however that doesn't stop the idiots, they've gotta try.
I often see vehicles including trucks that have been swept off on the downstream side of the weir, it's not the depth, it's the force of water on it's way downstream.

Rob.