Dirty Petrol

Hi
This is Greg. I used unleaded petrol. My mechanic found out there was water and dirty crap in my fuel tank. I didn't put anything in there except petrol from Caltex Woolworths petrol station. I am in the process of pursuing claims against Woolworths in the tribunal. So far they have denied everything. What to do? I need evidence to prove someone has the same problem like mine.

Hi Greg,
I hope your mechanic has keep the dirty fuel and sent some of it away for testing, and has written a report stating that the contaminants are the cause of your problems and that you've kept all your receipts. I wish you well in your endeavor to be compensated in this matter.
Why are they asking for evidence from somebody else that has had this happen to them?
Good luck with it all.

Hi

This is Greg again? I have all the receipts of petrol which I bought from Woolworth Petrol Station in Casino and the mechanical report from my car mechanic. I also have the dirty and crap petrol which my mechanical have put in the bottle for me. I didn't send for testing and have a test report because it will cost me arm and leg. The second tribunal hearing is due in May.

Regards
Greg

Hi Greg,
Mate, great that you kept your dockets and you still have a sample of the fuel.
Just a thought, One of the trucking companies over that way, Mills, Brown & Hurley or one of the bus mobs like Kirklands may be able to help with having it analyzed. They would getting theirs oils and fuels checked all the time.
You don't know a mate of a mate that might know someone?
Good luck with it.
Cheers.

Gday...

Ahhh ... the emotive issue of 'dirty fuel' and 'XXX brand' makes my car run noisily etc but 'XXX brand' is so much better.

There are limited refineries in OZ and a lot of the 'branded' fuels come from the same refinery with some companies adding their own additives post refinery. That said, the reason for 'dirty fuel' is, in the great majority of cases, a result of tanks at the retailers end - not what the big tanker brings in.

I agree with previous poster, the fuel from your tank needs to be analysed to determine just what 'contaminants' it contained that may/could have effected your engine. When that is confirmed, I would suggest you take action with the service station concerned and quite probably escalate to the controlling company.

I must be one of the luckiest people in OZ, I use fuel from almost any outlet - usually look for lowest price, avoid 'eco' or 'bio' fuels, and have yet to get a gutful of suss fuel. Travelling full time through inland regions, I have very little choice anyway to pick and choose 'the best brand'.

Interestingly I steer clear of BP - they never discount, are always the dearest and it is their policy to remain marketing in that way.

Cheers and happy (clean fuel) travelling
John

Morning John,
"Ahhh ... the emotive issue of 'dirty fuel' and 'XXX brand' makes my car run noisily etc but 'XXX brand' is so much better."

Hmm, Please tell me, If I put brand XXX in the tank and I average, said 12l/k and the injectors/pump has a noticeable rattle, yet with brand zzzz, the noise is far less and I can avg 10l/k, why is there a difference?

"I must be one of the luckiest people in OZ"
Not now, you've put the mockers on your good run ;)

"I have very little choice anyway to pick and choose 'the best brand'. "
Ahh, you admit there are differences in branding, some are better than others, interesting.

"I steer clear of BP"
Just because they don't discount, Hmm they don't seem to be able to load up groceries sales to cover discounting. Funny that's why they are dearer.

I had only ever used Caltex/Woolies diesel, up till a trip to & from St George 09 after the Gathering, I picked up a dirty tank of fuel, Diesel algae. I replaced the filter before we had left and had only used Caltex diesel on the trip. I kept each docket and presented this to Caltex who brushed it off as, "You could of filled up anywhere"
The Dept of Fair Trading, didn't want to know about.

This is why I don't have a great deal of faith in Caltex or Woolies. I'm happy paying an extra $3.60 a tank.

Happy travels and I hope your luck continues.
Cheers.

Gday...

hmmmmmmm....

"I must be one of the luckiest people in OZ"
Not now, you've put the mockers on your good run ;)

Yep - I really thought three times before I typed that ....... damned Murphy - hope he ain't reading this ;-}

"I have very little choice anyway to pick and choose 'the best brand'. "
Ahh, you admit there are differences in branding, some are better than others, interesting.

That isn't really what I meant ..... I have found no difference with different fuels - brand, location - escept 'eco' or 'bio' fuels are not good for my liddle Landy

"I steer clear of BP"
Just because they don't discount, Hmm they don't seem to be able to load up groceries sales to cover discounting. Funny that's why they are dearer.

You miss BPs point .... they actively promote themselves as a 'prestige' product - not just their fuel but their outlets, service, products sold through their outlets, cleanleness of toilets etc ... and their market surveys have shown them that the people who choose BP do so because they are a 'prestige' service station and these people are willing to pay a premium for that 'quality' service.

Anyway - I am currently in Biggenden QLD and will be filling up at the only servo in town tomorrow - an 'independent' brand ..... hope they don't know Murphy and have kept their tanks clean ;-)

Cheers and happy travelling
John

Sorry my bad,
12k/l is to be 12l per 1ook's
10k/l is to be 10l per 100k's
It's only the second day of the school holidays, I'm going to be mess by the end of them LOL>

Gday...

Oh, I forgot - the only servo in town is not only an 'independent' but also does not discount ...... diesel is $1.579/litre ...... life's tuff on the road ;-)

Cheers
John

G/Day Jon

I like to purchase Diesel from high turn over outlets, where Trucks and Buses get their Diesel, such as Matilda or Neumans in Qld, I think there is a couple in the Northern Rivers, some time ago I had a Toyota that had a problem with the Injector Pump, so I had it looked at under manufacturers warranty, they had to send it away for repairs to a specalist in Brisbane, while they were at it they removed the Fuel Tank and found all this crap inside, at the time I was getting my fuel from the local servo who didn't have a high turn over of diesel, anyway Toyota covered all costs and let me off the hook, and told me to only buy from high turn over outlets.

Cheers

Im a bit like JohnBee. I fill up anywhere and everywhere but fluctuate to the lowest price
.Ive never noticed a difference in engine noise(I have good hearing as tested) and my fuel consumption only fluctuates with load carried ,headwinds and my right foot.

I have a Landcruiser diesel,a Commodore on petrol/lpg and 2 motorbikes, a Triumph 2300 cc and a Yamaha 600cc and none of them go crazy if I refuel at the "wrong place"

I did change the fuel filters on my Landcruiser the other day and the prefilter was filthy,but understandable after 18 months.

It's not getting any cheaper John, I paid $1.57 last Friday for diesel here in Grafton, not looking forward to a months travel through western NSW, SA & Vic in September with the price climbing up at the moment.

Hi Daza,
I remember you posting was it? about this and you made mention of filling up at high volume turn over outlets.
Cheers Mate.

Hi Ross,
18 months can slip past quickly at times. :)
I keep pretty good records of my fuel usage, must be from when we had cabs many years ago, I do take into account what I've been towing, the terrain and other factors and I can see the difference.
I'll even go as far as to say that our old VL dummy door with the 3LTurbo Nissan motor use to run better on BP Premium Unleaded than on other brands of high octane fuels.

I think there is some misunderstanding about the supply of fuel between different brands. While my comments are specific for WA, I believe they apply to the east as well.

In WA, BP refine their own fuel and supply this from the Kwinana refinery to many (most) different brands and outlets. However, the other brands also buy fuel from the spot market, mainly via Singapore.

So, while with BP you virtually always get WA refined fuel, other brands can be a bit hit and miss. The cheap outlets in particular buy fuel on the spot market and transport it to WA - what was in the hold of these ships before - how much condensation takes place on the journey - what is the standard of the fuel?

Yes, all fuels are supposed to meet minimum AUS standards but to say they are the same because they meet the standard is a bit like saying Great Wall and Mercedes vehicles are the same because they to meet all Australian design standards!!!

I always use BP fuel for 2 reasons, one I believe its more consisitently refined to the same standard and two, if I ever do have a fuel problem then I know who to point the finger at.

Cheers

Captain

Has anyone ever done exhaustive testing of fuel at the bowser end to some kind of standard?
Im not really confident you can tell the quality of fuel by" the seat of your pants" type testing,unless the car is bucking and pinging.

Oils a bit the same.You wont know if its any good until the engine is nearly worn out ,but most new car owners will have long ago have moved onto new pastures by then.
Yet owners continually express their devotion to brand X

Hi Ross,
Here's an eg,
Have you driven a high performance vehicle, HSV, FPR?
Ok, If you have. have you fulled the tank with plain old unleaded from empty or even worse an ethanol blended fuel, driven it until it is near empty then filled the tank with a higher octane fuel?
The is a big difference in performance and fuel economy. And yes they are made to run on the higher octane.
There is a difference, but not as dramatic.
Sure an ethanol based fuel is cheaper, but is it really? when you don't get the same k/l as you would from standard unleaded. that costs a bit more. same as premium unleaded, you get more bang for your buck,

"Oils a bit the same.You wont know if its any good until the engine is nearly worn out"
In thisThread ID 85529 Reply 450804,
I mention that I had my Big End Bearings replaced at 150 000k's, 50000k's over when they should of been done. I use Penrite HPR Diesel 15, 15w-40 changed every 5000k's plus filter. The mechanic mention what good condition they were in. Is that because I use Penrite, change my oil every 5000k's as well as the filter, also tow heaps, the turbo's are pretty harsh on the big ends in this diesels as well, so I guess I'll keep using Penrite and recommending it. Same as with BP diesel.

If there is one thing my late father taught me, it was to keep records.
It only takes a minute.
Your right Captain, beside as I mentioned earlier BP will foot the bill if they are at fault. and if you don't purchase your fuel from anywhere else it makes tracking down the problem so much easier.
BTW, Love your analogy using Great Walls & Merc's
Nice one ;)
But your right.
Cheers.

I asked if anyone had knowledge of anyone havng done some kind of science based testing on fuels and oils.
What you are telling me is ancedotal evidence .

If Im meant to be impressed about the state of your big ends at 150k,I am sorry to disappoint.
I had mine done at 200000klms in an ex mine unit from the goldfields and it also had perfect bearings and I was the 3rd or 4th owner

"What you are telling me is ancedotal evidence "

Yes I have,
And No, I'm sorry I don't have a science based test on these. Because if you want that kind of information it will be heavily bias towards those that are paying for the research to prove their point.
The reason I mentioned my BEB's was that in a 1HD-T they are known to have problems if not changed at 100000k's, and especially if they have been towing heavy loads and been lugged.
I know of cruiser owners that also swear blind that they will never use anything else other than Castrol oils.
321000k's on two sets of bearings. Something has gone right, And I am disappointed that your not impressed ;(
What model Cruiser have you?
200000k's and being an ex mine vehicle is good, obviously they serviced it regularity with good quality oil + filters.

By the way, I read Shell is about to pull the pin on it's refinery in NSW.
Shell to shut 'uncompetitive' NSW refinery
Cheers

Before I went for tribunal help, I went to Woolworths Petrol Station in Casino and told them about the dirty petrol. They handed me a claim form which I submitted to them. However the headquarter of Woolworths Petrol Station sent me a letter and said their petrol has gone through filters before it gone to the tank and said it is no way I could get the dirty petrol in my car petrol tank. He also mentioned during the period I had the dirty petrol from their outlet, no one in casino had the same problem like me and no complaints from others.Sign..........what to do? I have spent more than 1k on the repairs of my car which I don't deserve it. I didn't put dirt, mud or water in my petrol tank. Every time my car needs petrol, I just went to Woolworths Petrol Station in Casino and put petrol in my car.Sign.................................

Greg

Hi John,

So far I have always been able to obtain BP fuel, up to the Pilbarra and down to the the South West in WA. Haven't crossed the border (yet!) in the 200 but will simply deal with it when it happens.

If people are happy with the fuel they use then great. Just because I am an anal retentive Chemical Engineer who has documented every drop of fuel I have bought, it certainly doesn't mean they have to follow suit. I have seen first hand the differences in some fuels and am comfortable that I try and use the same supplier.

It wasn't that long ago (~10 years) that BP lowered the sulphur content in diesel and ended up with lubricity issues that resulted in fuel leaks and rebuilds of injector pumps. Those who could prove use of BP fuel had all repairs paid, unlucky for some though! Turns out that the sulphur keeps the Buna N seals pliable and "swollen", but remove the sulphur and the seals shrink. Was a very expensive lesson for BP.

One could go on about diesel propoerties like Cetane level, cloud point, flash point, viscosity, water & sediment, copper corrosion, lubricity, oxidation stability, carbon residue ... just to name a few of the tech specs that BP diesel is tested to. I know many people want to believe that all stations do this - and perhaps they do, all I know is that BP do this testing and back it up.

And no, I do not work for BP. But I have toured their refinery several times and seen first hand what they do. I am very comfortable that using BP fuel is good insurance that will minimise any fuel related issues for my vehicle.

I have simply posted what I do, it doesn't mean I am right or that others should follow suit. But the original post talked about corrision of sensors in the tank - any wonder one of the tech specs is "copper corrision"?

Cheers

Captain

I also use BP diesel wherever possible. We own 2 diesels - the Landcruiser and the VW.
The VW specifies 51 cetane as a minimum.Caltex only guarantee the minimum 46 cetane, Shell are 49 cetane, BP is 51 and BP Ultimate is 52.
Plus I've never had a dirty fuel filter using BP (my prefilter gets changed 6 monthly).