Permits,Sacred land,Road accesss etc.....Grrrrrrrrr

Submitted: Monday, Apr 18, 2011 at 13:09

ThreadID: 85712 Views:3575 Replies:7 FollowUps:22

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Access, Restrictions & Permits

An overview to explain the various restrictions and permit requirements in place in Australia. Contains links (related pages) to separate pages per state for all permit details with links to

BrownyGU

Hi All,

Stephen L's post below about Lake Eyre and bureaucracy over permits has reminded me of the frustration of getting Permits to travel the Mereenie Loop in the West Macdonnell Ranges and also for the Great Central Road.

Now the permits are free, so no problems there with money etc, but for each section of road they only allow a 3 day window! While in Alice recently I was trying to arrange permits for said roads, and was asked what dates will I need them for? I said I'm not exactly sure, because we are traveling/holidaying and I have know idea how long we will be camped at any one particular spot ? I can give you rough estimates if you like? Sorry but you need to give us exact dates for these roads because you only get a 3 day window to complete them?( 3 days for each) Sort of flys in the face of a trip around Oz in my oppinion.

I wonder if Len had trouble with permits while building his roads ?

And whats more, any traditional land owner apparently has the right to ask to see your permit?

So the three "Traditonal owners" who had abbandoned there vehicle(to join the dozens of others alongng the GCR) just sort of The Docker river who I provided with water, to help in ther walk back to there community, could of asked to see if my permit was valid to be on there road?

And do you reckon that some of the park fees you need to pay to visit Uluru and Kata Tjata/The Olgas could be redirected to move some of the burnt out smashed in cars at the foot of Uluru? The one car in particular, just before the sign at the carpark that asks could you please not climb the rock due to it being cultraly significant/sacred etc.

I found the car offensive at such a "special" place!

My Whinge

Browny

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Reply By: Tjukayirla Roadhouse - Monday, Apr 18, 2011 at 13:41

Monday, Apr 18, 2011 at 13:41

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Reply By: Hairy (WA) - Monday, Apr 18, 2011 at 15:40

Monday, Apr 18, 2011 at 15:40

Gday,
So if I told you you didnt need permits to travell on NT roads anyway, it would upset you more ,hey....so I wont...LOL

AnswerID: 451670

Follow Up By: BrownyGU - Monday, Apr 18, 2011 at 15:58

Monday, Apr 18, 2011 at 15:58

Hairy,

Is that the case? How come it is marked on all maps "Permit Required"

Cheers......Browny

FollowupID: 724286

Follow Up By: Member - Barry P (VIC) - Monday, Apr 18, 2011 at 15:59

Monday, Apr 18, 2011 at 15:59

great central road this morning applied for a permit uluru too wa border ;came thru via e-mail nearly straight away; now waiting for permit too travel the wa side

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Follow Up By: Hairy (WA) - Monday, Apr 18, 2011 at 16:12

Monday, Apr 18, 2011 at 16:12

It all changed when the intervention started.......if you ask for a permit CLC will still give you one and lead you to believe it is compulsory but unless it has all changed again in the last 6 months, you are being mislead.

Cheers

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Follow Up By: Col WA - Tuesday, Apr 19, 2011 at 09:32

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2011 at 09:32

Hi Barry,
Applied for the same transit permits yesterday as well.
Got the NT side straight away. WA side said had to be assessed by permits officer, so I rang (92358000) left a message and 10mins later permits came throu. If not sent today give them a call.

Col.

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Follow Up By: Member - Barry P (VIC) - Tuesday, Apr 19, 2011 at 19:06

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2011 at 19:06

to col wa thanks for the message will try and ring the permits officer tomorrow barry

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Follow Up By: Richard W (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 04:30

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 04:30

Barry,

Both my NT and WA GCR permits for this year came through virtually straight away. Must have been someone doing the WA ones when I submitted mine.

Interestingly in all my travels over the years and having purchased many permits in many states including 8 for last years trip I have never been asked to produce one.

The Merrinee Loop was a funny one as it was cheaper to purchase in Alice Springs than at Kings Canyon.

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Reply By: Member - Barry P (VIC) - Monday, Apr 18, 2011 at 19:19

Monday, Apr 18, 2011 at 19:19

to hairy if no permit by end of next will ring them have a reference number;hoping too go that way after the finke desert race bye barry

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Reply By: Motherhen - Tuesday, Apr 19, 2011 at 00:53

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2011 at 00:53

For the Great Central Road the NT side had a three week period, so I got two permits – effectively covering six weeks. Our one day of travel fell into the second permit, so I was glad I got it. Central Lands Council in Alice Springs has a very efficient on line system and longer windows of travel than WA.

For the WA side, I faxed the application and received the permit the following day through the Yulara Visitor Centre paying them $1 – they do this regularly but it must be during week days and in office hours at the Ngaanyatjarra Alice Springs office. This ensured the three days matched our travels.

The permit for the Gary Junction Road was another story. I hope the Minister’s investigation of my experience has improved their service, but it is still a short window for travel in an area when travel times can be impossible to predict, out of internet range, and the permit takes several weeks to be processed. Again, NT side was long travel window and practically instant on line.

Mereenie Loop pass could be purchased at so many places that it was easy. I purchased at Glen Helen where they gave us a period of a week for travel flexibility as we were heading to Palm Valley for a while first. Those who purchased at the Kings Canyon resort were told they could only put the one date on and charged heaps more than all the other outlets. This was in 2008 and the resort has now changed hands so it may be different now.

Motherhen

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Follow Up By: Tjukayirla Roadhouse - Tuesday, Apr 19, 2011 at 20:48

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2011 at 20:48

We have sent some of the comments here through to the a lady in the Ngaanyatjarra office in the hope that there can be some sort of improvement in the way the permits are handled. This is her response:

....As for the 3 day permits, you have raised a good point. I know that others have simply requested longer permits during the application stage (i.e. 5 days) and that was approved without a delay, However that wouldn’t really work for those that already have a 3 day permit but now want to stop off at the other places but are worried that they are running out of time. What we need is a way for people to be able to extend their permits via the roadhouses for a nominal charge that will basically compensate you guys for time and the call/fax to the council office.

.....Leave that with me and I will see what I and the ladies at the council office can come up with. No promises of course, but we’ll see what we can do.

Not sure if anything will happen, but at least someone is aware of it now.

Cheers
Serena

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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Tuesday, Apr 19, 2011 at 22:04

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2011 at 22:04

Hi Serena

That is very good of you. A good suggestion re "extending", but they should consider coming into line with CLC NT who allow up to three week window of travel - very sensible when travel times in these regions are unpredictable. It is not so much that the extra time is needed for actual travel, but start of route cannot be predicted when touring. They suggested to me the option of faxing from Yulara when i explained why we couldn't pinpoint the three days do to unknown travel times, and that worked for us, although we crossed a day ahead of time as we didn't stop at the planned Docker River camp for a good reason. We did have a breakdown on the route, but that only cost us half a day (we were stopping regardless because of a very strong headwind and dust).

The Gary Junction Permit through DIA was the unworkable situation (and similar with friend's permit for the Sandy Blight Junction much the same time).

Motherhen

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Follow Up By: Tjukayirla Roadhouse - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 09:45

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 09:45

Hi Motherhen, I will pass on your comments re: three weeks window, it sounds like a great idea to me.
Cheers
Serena

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Follow Up By: Tjukayirla Roadhouse - Thursday, Apr 21, 2011 at 19:02

Thursday, Apr 21, 2011 at 19:02

Lady at the council tells me today:

....Anyone can apply for a longer time frame they just need to provide details of their proposed trip so we can obtain approval from the communities.
For example if they wanted a transit permit for the Great Central but wanted to spend 2 nights at Tjukayirla Roadhouse we wouldn’t have any hesitation in
approving this.

and then goes on to say:

...Some info on permits.

People can either apply directly through us or go onto the DIA website and follow the bouncing ball.

Once we have the website active we will improve our process to be more streamlined, but to be honest our current manual option works better than the DIA site.

Hope that helps, and they are still working on way to improve the system. Seems as though you can extend if required tho?

Cheers
Serena

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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Thursday, Apr 21, 2011 at 20:14

Thursday, Apr 21, 2011 at 20:14

Hi Serena

She's right about the DIA website. I takes about half an hour to find the permits application page for a start. Then it is darn near impossible to work out whether you'll need one or not, and they never answer an email request about permits required for a specific route.

My beef is not with the time for the trip - but the window to travel. When applying before leaving home eg from somewhere in WA then touring along the way, we cannot possibly predict the exact three days we will be on a particular road. With the Great Central when applying for the NT side, we were into the second of our three week window applications by the time we got there - some weeks later than originally expected. If not for the suggestion of taking an application form and faxing from Yulara, we would have been for or five weeks outside of our permit when we travelled into WA. We had to ensure that the application was faxed between a Monday and a Thursday to ensure a permit was faxed to us at Yulara - that alone could be inconvenient, and staying at Yulara CP was not the nicest of experiences and it came at a cost - not a place to sit it out and wait till Monday/Tuesday.

Motherhen

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Follow Up By: BrownyGU - Thursday, Apr 21, 2011 at 21:43

Thursday, Apr 21, 2011 at 21:43

Hi Serena,

Thats interesting comments re "the lady at the council" as that was not my experiance recently while orginising permits in Alice, I had 'discussions' with the lady behind the counter about the difficulty in providing exact dates etc for such a long trip over the GCR, I mentioned what if me and my family are tired and want a rest after a day or two on the road? She wouldn't have a bar of it and only re iterated the 3 day window !

Anyway, safely accross in the time frame, so no problems I guess.

Cheers......Browny
P.S. Your ammenities key is in the mail.....:)

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Follow Up By: Tjukayirla Roadhouse - Thursday, Apr 21, 2011 at 22:57

Thursday, Apr 21, 2011 at 22:57

Hi Browny,

The lady I spoke to at the council is not actually the lady that serves at the counter (she is highre up than that, but I can't disclose her personal details without her permission obviously) however, I digress.

I did mention to her that the impression was that the permit times could not be extended, and this is what is causing frustration - and perhaps that could be something they could pass on to tourists when permits were being approved. (and train the counter staff in passing on that information)

However, the "exact dates" issue is a seperate one, and she said quite plainly that they would not be prepared to give anyone a 3 week pass, or "window" on to the lands. I am not sure of their reasons, but she was quite firm on that.

As she had said they would quite happliy extend a persons stay once on the lands (as per above), we will now be carrying the permit applications and offering a complimentary fax service to anyone wishing to extend their stay with us.

So, in summary, a little win..and maybe a greater understanding of what is allowed one on the lands? As I receive more info, I will pass along :)

For the record (sorry can't remember who asked if a local person could ask to see their permit), I have never heard of any indigenous person here asking to see a permit, nor has the council ever heard of that happening. Be interested to hear if anyone has had that happen?

Cheers
Serena

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Follow Up By: Tjukayirla Roadhouse - Thursday, Apr 21, 2011 at 22:59

Thursday, Apr 21, 2011 at 22:59

p.s, thanks for posting the keys :) We actually had to get a heap of different keys cut today in laverton, $10 a key *shock* lol!

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Follow Up By: Richard W (NSW) - Friday, Apr 22, 2011 at 04:50

Friday, Apr 22, 2011 at 04:50

Serena,

Thanks for that info.
I applied for the WA 3 days permit as I was wary that the longer option would require a 'note from my mother, God rest her soul', as why it was required even though our window may be a couple of days either side of the 3 days. Just have to deal with it in Alice Springs if necessary.

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Follow Up By: Tjukayirla Roadhouse - Friday, Apr 22, 2011 at 09:21

Friday, Apr 22, 2011 at 09:21

No worries Richardm, good luck with it! :)

Cheers
Serena

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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Friday, Apr 22, 2011 at 10:25

Friday, Apr 22, 2011 at 10:25

"we will now be carrying the permit applications and offering a complimentary fax service to anyone wishing to extend their stay with us."

That is good news Serena; well done and thank you. Where does the need for a permit start on the western side? It seems a good option for travellers from the western side when travel plans are out of sync with permits dates (due to uncertain travel times or road conditions delaying travel) - or even to get their permit.

While Ngaanyatjarra will not extend the window, people will continue to travel without or on wrong date permits.

Mh

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Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Tuesday, Apr 19, 2011 at 07:29

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2011 at 07:29

So, who's going to check your permit validity at one end of the Mereenie Loop or the other.
I did the "right thing" when last up there, but wouldn't bother next time.

I wouldn't mind if the proceeds were fed back into road maintenance or similar, but we all know that wouldn't be the case, don't we?

Bill.

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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Tuesday, Apr 19, 2011 at 21:52

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2011 at 21:52

The whole two dollars Sandman? It is the cost of the leaflet they give you with the permit. We will always 'do the right thing' or endeavour to.

Mh

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Follow Up By: get outmore - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 09:27

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2011 at 09:27

even came with a bit of a map and some info
ive spent alot more on a lot less

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Reply By: ob - Tuesday, Apr 19, 2011 at 17:05

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2011 at 17:05

So what happens if through your own neglect or a breakdown you exceed the time limit???

ob

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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Tuesday, Apr 19, 2011 at 21:53

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2011 at 21:53

Reason prevails in case of a breakdown

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Reply By: Roachie.kadina.sa.au - Tuesday, Apr 19, 2011 at 20:38

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2011 at 20:38

I blame the Adelaide City Council for the current crisis. Those of you not from SA, may not know of the occurrences here over the past 6 months or so.

There was a riot of sorts at a NT settlement, resulting in a large number of the village's locals heading to see their relo's in Adelaide. They initially set-up camp in the city parklands. The gubment said that was no good, so they shunted them by coach, down to Port Stanvac/Largs Bay or somewhere around there for a little while. Then the state paid for their return bus fares back home to the NT.

Things still weren't too rosy in the NT, so once again the band of tax-payer funded tourists headed back to SA's city centre and set-up camp again.

The local gubment authorities said "you can't camp here without permission; buggga orf" and promptly paid for their fares to go back to NT again.

So, now we have the thong on the other foot....and they are telling us where we can and can't camp!!! hahahaha

I love this country!

Roachie

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