debate why camper trailers cause damage

I''l bite first.

Firstly I agree with your comments

Because you are sensible - not overloading, correct wheel pressure and the like.

Track damage is made by fools trying to go further in 2wd, high pressure, spinning wheels, overloading and speeding

But the thing is though, trailers make it easier for those same fools to be even BIGGER fools! They do more damage with the trailer if they overload, travel 2wd, high wheel pressure speed etc. Know what I mean? Sadly (and we also are guilty of this) the more space one seem to have the more one takes; so rather than distributing the existing load over three axles, one takes more than one third extra weight so you end up with three axles each as heavy or heavier than a sensibly loaded single vehicle

But for sensible blokes like you (and me of course) I agree with your comments

CJ

A good question and hopefully not one that will generate moronic answers. So here goes my bit - having had a 7x4 "offroad" trailer for many many years and towed it all over the place with a full 4wd of family it also went everywhere the 4wd went. I no longer have a need so with just a 4WD and a swag life is a bit simpler in the bush. That however is not for this discussion.

The trailer did however do that thing that ALL trailers will do - no matter what any manufacturer or seller or owner will tell you - it bounced. It is just a fact of life that they bounce - no matter if they have leaf or coil of air or marshmallows or pussy cats as suspension they still bounce. As anyone knows when the first little bounce happens it kicks up a little bit of dirt and then the following vehicle bounces in that hole and a little bit more dirt moves and before long - just like magic - there are corrugations. That is the main complaint of trailers. This is not 100% true for the formation of corrugated tracks as the use of incorrectly inflated vehicle tyres also causes corrugations and worsens those already there.

Apart from corrugations the weight of a trailer causes the operator of a 4WD to need to use just a bit more of the go pedal - hence a bit more bounce and maybe "excitement" as you crest the dune and........the perception (rightly or wrongly) is that the trailer is causing damage.

In tight situations on tracks when reversing they cause more damage to the bush if they cannot be reversed along the track because there is an extra 5m over the 4WD length.

Now for the other bit - no matter what you think or how good you are you will always overload a trailer - and that doesn't mean it will be over its tare or capacity.........it just means with more room there will be more "stuff" that can go in - and in it goes. One of the big problems I had when using my trailer was as the kidlets got older and dropped off the trips one by one I was suddnely left with gaps in the trailer where previously it was all full and tight and nothing moved. As the trailer lightened so the bounce increased so stuff moved around so the bounce increased so..............on and on. Eventually they all grew older and the trailer now does domestic trailer duties.

So whilst a trailer is good and certainly has its place out there in the great Aussie Outback you just need to be aware that no matter what you do it will cause track damage and there will be people who will target you for that. Ask them when was the last time they let their tyres down to drive along a bush track and I bet they look at you and swear at you and walk off.

Just do the best you can - correct inflation of ALL tyres for the track conditions - including the trailer - and have a good time. At least you are out there having a look around which is more than a lot of people do. rgds

Technically, it is NOT the camper trailer that damages tracks....it's the towing vehicle that does the damage due to the extra effort needed to be applied to the track via the tug's wheels, to overcome the inertia of the dead weight of the trailer dragging along behind.

However, as an avid camper trailer user (I have towed our Ultimate Off Road Camper to Cape York twice as well as a successful Simpson Desert Crossing), I must add that it is probably more to do with the driver (attitude and ability) as well as how appropriately the tug rig is set-up....as regards tyre pressures and weight distribution etc.

I have personally seen a trailer-less vehicle in front of me on a sandy track (with dunes etc), do far more damage due to his gung-ho approach and his hard-headed approach to refusing to reduce his tyre pressures, than those of us who followed in a sedate manner and with all 6 of our tyres lowered to an appropriate pressure. This happened on the "Border Track" in SA several years ago.

Having said that, I agree that the addition of a trailer can add to the degradation of fragile tracks and I will not be attempting to do the Simpson Desert crossing again with our trailer. The occasion we did our crossing was just after rain...the desert had previously been closed and we were amongst the first to do the crossing after it re-opened. As such the dunes were nicely packed down and I had no difficulty on any of the dunes.

Roachie

dont stress, they DONT cause any more damage than other form of "wheel" moving accross the ground, it is the person in control of it that causes all of the damage, he may not let down the tyres and it bounces around, he most probally is going way to fast and it slides out and moves around .......
Truth is they actually cause LESS damage, why would i say that ????
Simple, it is all about how many wheels are travelling over the ground...
You will have 4 people in one car with a camper on the back, it follows EXACTLY in the tracks of the vehicle towing it ..... or ..... you split them up into two vehicles and you have one EXTRA set of wheels/tyres tearing up the ground, they each drive according to where they "think" is the best part of the track, often moving OFF the existing track and causing MORE damage...
What if we work it out with a large group, say 200 people (large !!) they all split into groups of 4 in each car with camper trailers and share the equipment.

That will be 50 cars and fifty camper trailers with 300 sets of tyres in contact with the ground ... or 50 sets of tracks in the bush .. and 25% LESS fuel consumption (conservitive, probally more) and les greenhouse gas bla bla bla carbon footprints ect

Lets ditch the camper trailers and go with 2 per car, 100 cars with 400 sets of tyres in contact with the ground, ...... or 100 sets of tracks in the bush .... MORE carbon crud for Juliar to tax bla bla bla

So ok what is best ????
Camper trailers .....

hahahha thats a kinda funny way to look at it but sadly it is true, sorry "camper trailer" haters but you wont win this...

Cheers and have a loverly trip
Joe

Define 'damage'..........................bearing in mind that if there was no track through and over that piece of earth there would be no damage

If a track is unmaintained it cannot be 'damaged' though its surface may deteriorate

Bad tyre choice and an overloaded trailer = track damage.

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It's simply logic that if you're tugging a big weight behind a vehicle that the towing vehicle is going to work harder to pull it around, therefore greater traction is also needed....yes? Then any situation where tight or slippery or loose tracks are used then of course you're going to get more wheel slip form the tow vehicle than you'd normally get from it? You've also got one more set of heavy tyres digging in to the surface.
I mean trailers don't just roll around be themselves and they sure as hell don't drive themselves (Not counting PTO jobs)
Last time we were down the Finke Gorge there were 3 trailers (where they shouldn't be or course) 2 bogged to the hilt on the river's edge and digging everything up in the process (with shovels and vehicles churning all over trying to free them) 1 stuck in deep sand back up the road.
With signage advising of no trailers, why do it? Guess it comes down to a persons attitude......and anyone dealing with the public will know that that stinks most times.
And yes "single vehicles get stuck in there as well" I here you say, well yes they do, but towing will increase the odds significantly.
Anyway, rant over!
Ahh, I feel much better now.

I have a serious off road CT but don't take it on remote no track/cross country travel and don't want others to take theirs either if I’m running such a trip;

I won’t go into the arguments about track damage, camper damage, cutting up tracks, inexperienced drivers etc.

Usually trip time lines are tight and we need to keep moving along and in I my experience;

CTs tend to hold up the convoy as they can't keep up the speeds in sandy/ no track/cross country off road conditions,

They tend to need more tries to get up dunes/hills,

They can’t readily manoeuvre around trees, rocks shrubbery

Additional clearing or levelling may be needed to get around obstacles.

Hence no CT's on my remote trips.

Cheers

Hullo Zigdog

As in many situations, there is not a straight forward, simple response. So trying to remember my pavement design and road maintenance past, I will make these few remarks.

Firstly, pavement damage due to load goes up as to the 4th power. That is, a doubling of the axle weight produces 16 x more damage. For low weights and well designed and built pavements, that is not a significant factor. But for a well loaded 4WD and pavements made out of relatively poor materials (eg, sand, mud, etc) and especially if they are wet, it is significant.

Secondly, in soft materials, the wheels depress the ground under them and the effect is like they are continuously climbing a hill, the slope being the angle of the tangent of the tyre - maybe 30%; this is considerable and takes a lot more power. A driven wheel copes better in this situation as it is being driven up the slope, compared with an unpowered one (eg a trailer or using 2WD) which tends to shove the soil in front of it as it is dragged or pushed along. (this is one reason why tyre pressure should be lowered as it increases flotation and reduces penetration)

Thirdly, rolling resistance is a major factor in power required to move a vehicle.
So paradoxically, and bearing in mind the relatively low weights involved, the same gross combination mass spread over 3 axles (one being the C/T and not powered) will generate more resistance to movement and hence require more power, than the same overall mass on only 2 axles.

Now of course, that amount of weight may exceed the GVM, but not the GCM - hence the use of a C/T. But it will require more power and hence this may result in more damage as this power will need to be transmitted through the contact surface between the tyre and the road. (another eason to use 4WD)

Added to this is, of course, is the factor of driver skills and maturity. The "bull at a gate" type who relies soley on more speed rather than lowered tyre pressures and the steady and approriate use of the accelerator will undoubtably cause more damage, particularly if towing.

Hope this helps

Cheers
Andrew

Wife and I travelled the Canning SR. in August 2009.
Towed an Ultimate Camper.
As has been stated, pay very particular attention to tyre pressures - all six of them.
We don't know what all the hoo haa was about, it was a breeze and thoroughly enjoyable.
An observation.
We continually caught up to a group one of which was a Oka and it was heavily laden on the roof.
We waited track side on a number of occasions whilst dune negotiation took place.
When the harmonic swaying starts because of the weight on the roof the tyres would break traction momentarily and dig a hole and in the end the track looked like ski moguls and each following vehicle did the same.
A tagalong of about fourteen passed us at one time and they attacked the dunes at great speed from those 'landing strips' some even got airborne.
Later when we cruise into camp the enevitable "what tyre pressure are you running"? or " what gears do you use"?
So who breaks up the tracks ?
Whether you towng or not and things are not as they should be change tyre pressures.
The plan is to never break traction ---- feed it to the wheels gently.
An F1 race car can break traction at any time in any gear but you rarely see them smokin' them. It is a learned skill.

All these answersd seem to be in relation to tracks on soft ground. ie, those found in the central areas. I can see where the damage is going to occur there, especially with incorrect tyre pressures. What about on hard surfaces such as those found in the mountains? Apart from the odd deep wheel rut, which is also going to catch the vehicle, what damage is going to occur there with a correctly set up 4wd camper?

Ah! Zigdog!

Now you have gone and done it, and that is - conjured up a 'full moon' causing the 'maddogs' to howl at it uncontrollably.

Especially those who don't know the difference between the words Tow and Tug.
When I was educated at the School of Hard Knocks (Aust) the word Tug described a sea faring vessel that moved Ships around when unable to manoeuver themselves, and the word Tow and its derivatives - towed and towing - described land based motorised and non motorised devices that pull/ed something behind them.

I know you have done your best Zigdog, however I don't think you are going to get too much from cootas that don't know the difference between Tug and Tow, then again, maybe they do - in a self help fashion - so to speak.

DD

Its pretty basic really - any undriven wheels will cause more impact than if they are driven.

I saw a discussion recently, can’t recall where, that highlighted that the issue is not just about whether a vehicle or vehicle + camper-trailer causes more damage, but the mere fact that a lot of areas are now seeing increasing amounts of traffic whether it be in the outback or high country.

Advances in both vehicle capability, and the new breed of camper-trailers that are capable of most tracks in the right hands, means the potential and ingredients are there for track degradation simply through traffic numbers that were never envisaged when the tracks were established.

Driver education remains the key, regardless of the drive vehicle, or what is or isn't behind it.


Cheers, The Landy