National 4x4 licence

Submitted: Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 11:09
ThreadID: 8676 Views:1599 Replies:9 FollowUps:18
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with reference to post #8640 from Glenn (Vic).

If we had a comprehensive licence test for 4x4 drivers do you think that would give us some credibility and halt the procession of beefed up ads given that it wouldn't be an unsuspecting consumer that they would be targeting.

Your thoughts on 4 x 4 licence anyway would be appreciatedAllyn
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 13:35

Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 13:35
It wont work.
AnswerID: 38103

Reply By: Bonz (Vic) - Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 14:11

Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 14:11
Wouldnt matter a zot. Thered still be self righteous dipsticks who have a 4x4 bee in the bonnet and need some soapbox to campaign from.

I do like the idea of getting access to areas if you have a licence as a responsible driver. That would be something worth doing something extra for.Laterally Literal
Seriously Cerebral
AnswerID: 38104

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 14:50

Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 14:50
I do like the idea of getting access to areas if you have a licence as a responsible driver

So shouldnt driver training from a club, and club membership be the same?
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 15:32

Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 15:32
Theres heaps of driver training out there, many that are Nationally accredited, I can't see why someone should have to be part of a 4WD club to get the training. But I do acknowledge that clubs are a focal point for those who want to have their voice heard, like those the VA4WDC support,

Theres no reason why a group from EO who have this "Responsible" 4WDriver licence couldnt arrange a trip into a hitherto unccessable area and clear racks and see the terrainLaterally Literal
Seriously Cerebral
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 18:01

Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 18:01
What Im saying is why do you need a license if you have been trained to drive one? Not meaning the club thing, what I meant is I've done driver training.. at 2 different clubs.. Why should I have to be trained again, and then PAY MONEY FOR IT.. Then have to bleep around to get a license?? I have my road train (5c) license, and have driven them, drove normal semis for years, with 1 accident, not my fault.... Surely to bleep I can handle a Patrol/cruiser/paj/Lada etc. Jam that for a joke.

4x4's come under a license now, its called a CAR license.

Its more money for the Gov that will do N O T H I N G for us at all...

Sales of 4x4 will drop as people CBF to pay the $1000 it will cost to get the license, prices of 4x4 will rise as there will be no demand, and there will be less Model Options...

The only ones to benefit will be 4x4 trainers, and the Gov..

Wont make spit difference to insurance, or rego, etc.... Just more bleep to go through for no reason.
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 18:35

Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 18:35
Yep I agree Truckster. The evidence of the skill should be in the succcesful attendance and proof via a competence certificate from an accredited trainer. I have done three 4wd courses and two advanced driving courses, not that I needed to, I wanted to improve my skills. Same as your courses via the Clubs T-Man they should be recognised and our current licenses endorsed. The last thing I want is another bureaucracy and more red tape. Endorsement should be optional, you either get it or not and if you do have you get access to "restricted" areas, if you don't then thats your choice. Insurance companies could also offer better rates for endorsed drivers, its like a car alarm, less risk of theft, better drivers, less risk of having to pay out.Laterally Literal
Seriously Cerebral
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Follow Up By: Brett - Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 20:09

Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 20:09
Truckster (Vic) posted this followup

I do like the idea of getting access to areas if you have a licence as a responsible driver
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Under your system I would be discriminated against if I did not pay to get a 4x4 license? What do I do with my 5C ???

We are getting into some pretty heavy civil liberty areas here.. leave it all alone or we will end up like Holland where you need to do a TAFE course before you can play golf.
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Follow Up By: Member - Eskimo - Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 20:49

Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 20:49
tafe course to play golf....ya got to be kidding!Wow! am I cute
If yer ain't fishing, Yer ain't livin
Richard
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 21:00

Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 21:00
Brett, I didnt post that, it was in the post above mine, it was what I was replying to.

Not another one on about Civil Liberties... DO you know Simon?
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Follow Up By: Brett - Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 22:54

Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 22:54
Sorry Truckster I was typing quickly before the start of the footy.

All this talk about extra or additional licenses /endorsments for 4x4's just increases the number of restrictions we already face. Imagine signs such as "Only 4WDs with endorsed drivers past this point" if any sort of license is implemented this will become a reality.

As I said in earlier posts the individual drivers have to be responsible for their own actions. We have a good NAtional licensing system with enough distinction between the classes. We do not need improvement in this area.

I don't exactly know why this subject keeps coming up. If it is related to accidents stats indicating the demographic component should be included. Or is this subject raised by people who choose not to have a 4x4 and feel intimidated by them on the road? Or maybe thare are a number of white collar Merc or Volvo drivers whos only experience with the bush is the one in their front garden and cannot understand why someone would need a 4x4.

In hindsight I think we would be better not commenting on this subject until some sort of Government proposal is publicised. I am not paranoid but I have seen what has happened in the coal industry where even Office workers have to be competancy tested before they are able to operate office equipment. Vehicles driving on a coal mine need to be fitted with high mounted brake, blinkers and tail lights but these lights do not comply with ADR and are therefore illegal. So the lights are fitted with a switch so their operation can be controlled so they don't work on public roads. Then you get booked by the Police because you have lights on your vehicle which don't work( because they have been turned off due to ADR rules) Then you seek further advise from the police and get told that you are allowed to have the lights not working if you have a PERMIT. So it is illegal to have these mine site required lights not working on a public road as long as you pay money.

We dont want to allow a door to be opened(even just a little bit) whereby any limitations on the operation or availability of 4wd turns into legislation because if that happens our liberties will be eroded.
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 23:53

Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 23:53
What am I hearing?????

In hindsight I think we would be better not commenting on this subject until some sort of Government proposal is publicised.

Whatever happened to free speech? Should we whisper about this behind closed doors and not say boo if someone makes a comment? Do all the ideas only materialise when a government proposal is launched? I would think that is the worst time to comment, after the decision has been made and the publicity machine is kicking into action.

I don't want to be paraniod Brett but when I need a competency test to operate a stapler, the last thing on my mind will be a special licence for 4WD's....Laterally Literal
Seriously Cerebral
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Reply By: landie - Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 16:05

Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 16:05
Has anyone thought of the total cost of implementing a four-wheel drive licence. I doubt the cost / benefit would stack up. Nor would it get the support of all those with a vested interest.

I think it is improtant to remember in this debate that it would not just affect recreational four-wheel drivers. What about the rural and mining industries, how do they feel about this additional cost that will be added to their respective industries?

It isn't just a case of saying, well that'll just cost everyone $100, so no big deal.

Wrong! It would the toal number of four-wheel drivers times $100 (or whatever the cost of testing and issuing is). That is how this cost needs to be measured.

I can't imagine the National Famers and Mining Industry Council getting behind this... Do you think they will want to support a proposal, that will add significant cost to their industries, simply because a (small) bunch of recreational drivers are irresponsible.

You will never legislate against stupdity, and a four-wheel drive licence will just inconvenience those who already take a responsible approach to recreational four-wheel driving.

Something to alos consider is the possible impact a four-wheel drive licence will have on insuring four-wheel drive vehicles. At the moment they are insured comprehensively like any other standard vehicle. A four-wheel drive licence will have the insurance companies rubbing their hands together with glee, pointing to the fact that these are in fact more dangerous vehicles (because after all you need a special licence) then your standard vehicle.

This will create a separate insurance class almost overnight, and what do you reckon that means for insurance premiums - up or down?

Good luck out there,
Landie

AnswerID: 38108

Follow Up By: Willem - Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 17:22

Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 17:22
Well said Landie....my thoughts concur with yours entirely.

Yes, very few people who comment on this issue consider where the vast majority of 4x4's are. In industry of course. I would like to know what the percentage is Industry to Recreational 4x4's. Just think of all the government departments and their 4x4's. Imagine sending each worker to sit a 4x4 exam. The mind boggles.

Cheers,
Willem

Always going somewhere
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 18:04

Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 18:04
Dont even think it will be as cheap as $100 ea... Im thinking it will be $1000 ea..

Whats a good offroad drivers course worth now? $400-500ish?? Then once there is a demand for it, they will charge what they like + the Governments share....

Thats PER PERSON.. Wife yourself, kids etc... Thats a LOT of $ for no reason. I'd rather burn it.
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Follow Up By: Coops (Pilbara) - Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 18:25

Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 18:25
I agree with a lot of this Landie.
One further point I'd like to make though. How many mining industry personnel do you reckon are killed each year in 4 x4 accidents? I know you'd all be surprised at that statistic.
There's one access road here in Pilbara (Tom Price to Karratha) that is probably (definitely) going to be closed in near future due to too many fatalities of both mining personnel & public citizens.

All good points as usual peopleAllyn
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Reply By: Member - Eskimo - Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 17:02

Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 17:02
I hope the fleas of the 1000 camels infests the armpits of the next person who suggests a national 4by licence.

I've got so many licences now that i need to carry a seperate card folder just to hold the bloody things....

With my tools of trade, ladders etc, add in parts inventory and the one more licence, i'll need to go get a heavy truck licence just to carry all the damned stuff.

Wow! am I cute
If yer ain't fishing, Yer ain't livin
Richard
AnswerID: 38112

Follow Up By: Willem - Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 17:25

Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 17:25
I'll add another 1000 mozzies !!!!!Willem

Always going somewhere
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 18:05

Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 18:05
Add 1000000 mozzies, and March flies.... 2139283409238402938409 scorpions, and 20394802239840298340298340928340298304982304982034982039480239480239843948023948 Brown snakes.
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Follow Up By: Coops (Pilbara) - Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 18:29

Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 18:29
Dunno about you but most of mine are all on the one licence/card.

I do have a bit of a collection even still though with other govt agencies etc.Allyn
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Follow Up By: Member - Eskimo - Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 20:48

Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 20:48
willem,
which part of the anotomy do you want the mozzies to infest

Truckster: scorpions- the crutch?
: snakes- trousers?

Coops ; govt agencies- dont want themWow! am I cute
If yer ain't fishing, Yer ain't livin
Richard
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Reply By: Jimmy - Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 17:16

Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 17:16
I don't believe a 4X4 licence simply to be able to drive on the road is a good idea, however if it were possible to get a licence that would allow you to drive your vehicle OFF road along tracks that are not accessible to those without licences. ie through National parks and tracks that have been closed due to overuse or abuse.
So the licence would be voluntary and those that chose to get them would be able to enjoy our country more fully. To get the licence you might be required to attend a tred lightly course or something aimed at preserving the environment.
This of course does not address the issues of ignorant drivers on the road or that of the TV ads but is the only type of 4X4 licence that I believe is apporiate. Like others have said my 4X4 is smaller than my car!

Jim
AnswerID: 38114

Follow Up By: landie - Sunday, Nov 23, 2003 at 09:32

Sunday, Nov 23, 2003 at 09:32
Jimmy

You bring in this and all off-road tracks will be closed to anyone without the special licence/accredation or whatever.

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Reply By: Nomad - Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 22:12

Saturday, Nov 22, 2003 at 22:12
If you really want to have a special 4by licence then you had better include all those trades and small business people who drive around in little pretend trucks less than 4.5T GVM.

Mind you some of them bloody need it!!.

But Trucksters right. Why should he, or me for that matter, have to go through all that when we have heavy vehicle licences and years of experience. Perhaps truckster they might exempt people with heavy vehicle licences. They have already proved their worth. Like if I get a semi licence that allows me to drive a rigid. But it doesn't work vice versa. But like you I would like to be able to go places that are now restricted.

Cheers
AnswerID: 38138

Reply By: landie - Sunday, Nov 23, 2003 at 09:41

Sunday, Nov 23, 2003 at 09:41
Another thought on this issue......

Once all four-wheel drivers can be identified (via this licence) you'll have the green lobby telling the government to slap a levy on them to pay for the damage they do to the bush.......

All the licence will do is to narrow a broader group into a much smaller group. At the moment there is no distinction between standard vehicle licences. You would want to ensure that an effective voice is etablished for this group (4WD) and that they will be effective at lobbying government. If they aren't then rest assured you will have the greenies target us like you wouldn't believe.

Personally, I wouldn't want to go head-to-head with the greens lobby group.

Spare us...
AnswerID: 38160

Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Sunday, Nov 23, 2003 at 10:25

Sunday, Nov 23, 2003 at 10:25
Head to Head...or...Gun to Head, either way the green minority have it over everyone, have you seen some of their actual policies??

A "non-violent" civil defence force
Helping people to take more drugs for personal filfilment
Paying people who REFUSE to work

Any connection to real world values is lost on tis mob. Their performance in Parliament speaks for itself.

Laterally Literal
Seriously Cerebral
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FollowupID: 27690

Reply By: Coops (Pilbara) - Sunday, Nov 23, 2003 at 11:36

Sunday, Nov 23, 2003 at 11:36
Please don't think that I am in favour of this proposal.

It's something I heard about recently and posted the question here because that's what I thought forum's were about - especially this one.

As for the Green's - well they're just a far too radical minority group lacking credibility who get paid too much unwarranted attention already I'm afraid. I'm all for protecting the environment (but with a commonsense approach) and always do my bit when out & about. Just wish everyone else would too
Allyn
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AnswerID: 38165

Reply By: Hatcher - Monday, Nov 24, 2003 at 11:26

Monday, Nov 24, 2003 at 11:26
How about a license that allows us to run down the whinging bastards that have nothing better to do than try to eradicate 4WD's from the road based on statistics fabricated to make 4WD's responsible for the worlds' woes?

Can I see a show of hands?....

It should and always come down to people being responsible for their own actions. i.e. drive responsibly and understand the characteristics and limitations of your vehicle, if this is adhered to, I can’t see the problem.

On another issue, I don’t mind having to apply for and renew a yearly access pass to restricted areas. At least this will keep Australia open to the 4b owners that appreciate this great country and might go a long way to redeeming ourselves in the eye of Joe Public when, after the weekend yahoos find something else to destroy because they don’t want to pay the $$$, lo and behold, all the pristine off-road locations around the country are STILL pristine because the responsible few who have access have taken care of it!

Those who think this is just another revenue raiser for the Govt. might want to think about how many locations are now off limits, and in just a few years time Off-Road will mean parking your 4b on the front lawn at home and pitching a tent.

Have I whinged enough?… I think so…
AnswerID: 38248

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