SCAM

Submitted: Friday, Aug 19, 2011 at 23:23
ThreadID: 88573 Views:4551 Replies:11 FollowUps:22
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Hi All
Received text today from some one working west alliance submersible wanting to by my caravan that I have for sale, thought it a bit suss so I goggled west alliance submersible and on top of the page was this web site.So I read the forum I was directed to and to my amazement read nearly the same thing that the potential purchaser had Emailed to me earlier. I thought some of you may like to read the email and put the word out that this scam is going on

From: Brian Garreys [mailto:bgarreys@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, 19 August 2011 4:40 PM
To: Rod Rosenboom
Subject: Re: 2004 Jayco Heritage

Thanks mate,
I really appreciate your email, I am away at sea at the moment, on the west alliance submersible to be precise,I would have loved to come and view it personally, but I wont be back on land for a while.I sent a txt to you as we are out of cell phone range but have access to internet messaging service.How much are you after for the van?

I am buying this for my Dad as a surprise gift,he will love this so so much,will help with his tour and I want it delivered asap, but I have already talked to a freighting company that will handle the pick up and delivery to him.I will be happy if you can email additional information and pics, does it have any history I should be aware of?.

As regards the payment, I will only be able to pay through paypal and this is due to to the fact that paypal is the easiest means for me to pay as I do not have access to my bank account through the internet as I need to get some info confirmed at the bank before they can activate it for me, but I have it attached to my paypal account, if you have a paypal acc, all I will need will be your paypal email address and if not, it is very easy to set up at www.paypal.com.au I will also bear the paypal charges, I will be expecting your reply.
Brian

Lucky I checked this out
Regards
Rod
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Reply By: Member - Dunworkin (WA) - Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 00:03

Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 00:03
Thanks for the heads up Rod, people sure have to be on their toes these days with all these different scams around.

Cheers

D


Simba, our much missed baby.

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Reply By: Member Andys Aussie Adventure - Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 00:28

Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 00:28
If he is paying through Paypal, then you get your moeny, then you send the van. No Scam, paypal is a secure way of having funds transfurded into your account. It is widley used nowadays. Ebay buyers use paypal every day without any problems. I have used paypal for over 5 years now with No scams. If he is paying for it where is the scam.

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Follow Up By: get outmore - Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 04:30

Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 04:30
that one is an aold scam with little variation to the original one

sorry i cant quite tell you how it works but it is definitly a scam
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Follow Up By: Member Andys Aussie Adventure - Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 07:37

Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 07:37
I can't see a scam if you get your money ???. What you don't trust paypal. Paypal is a financial institution like a bank it has the same rules as a bank and same laws as a bank,and is the safest way to transfer money. So if you get your money how can you call it a scam. Some people think that (paypal) is some sort of scam itself. I can rest your fears Paypal is a secure way of transferring money on the Internet.

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Follow Up By: aussiedingo. (River Rina) - Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 07:53

Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 07:53
G'day, I have bought & sold cars & trucks local & overseas with paypal without any problems, they guarantee some sales up to $20,000. If you sell your van via paypal, when the money is in your account, you release the van! No money - no van! Where is the risk?
"the only thing constant in my life is change"




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Follow Up By: Mick O - Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 08:16

Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 08:16
One of two things happen. Firstly the more gullible provide sufficient details for the scammer to get access to their paypal account and transfer monies out; or

The most common is you organise the sale and then a very official looking PayPal receipt arrives in the email for an amount over your asking price. Visually, the receipt is hard to pick as a forgery so you have to check the email addresses etc which will normally have a little variation like a letter added like Receiptsa@paypal or Receipt@paypale.blah.blah. You'll then get an email from the fraudster saying, Mate, sorry but I, the missus or my bank inadvertently payed too much into your account. The trucks on the way, could you reimburse me from your PayPal account to this bank account and whacko...you're stung!

Believe me it's a scam alright. I know this because I've seen it myself more than a few times. Same chap targeted my brothers trak-shak that was for sale on this site and others 12 months back.

If in doubt, do not release any property or do anything until the full amount has actually hit your bank account from Paypal. Once the funds are cleared, you know it's not a scam.

Beware. This is happening everywhere as are the emails purporting to be from PayPal, your bank, hotmail and gmail accounts or even you internet provider saying we've changed your account, we've upgraded this and need you to log in here (Very official looking page provided). It's all bull and you should check with your providers before doing anything.

It's a brave new world of fraud out there.

Mick

''We knew from the experience of well-known travelers that the
trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
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Follow Up By: snoopyone - Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 08:33

Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 08:33
Absolutely correct Mick

Thats how it works and if anyone thinks its safe to do a deal like that they are sadly naive.

Have had it tried on me and also the Western Union scam.

I dont sell to any overseas address ever.

Yes Aussie Dingo thats also correct but there is usually the variation that Mick has said and thats the scam part
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Follow Up By: Member Andys Aussie Adventure - Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 10:01

Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 10:01
Sorry Mick I did realise their are so many gullible people out their. One would think that if you had the knowledge to open a paypal account one would be aware of such scams, as paypal inform you of it when signing up. Rule 1 Never give details to a buyer. Rule 2 Always go to your paypal account and you will see if the email that was sent to your email address is their, If not report it to paypal and the FBI will investigate. (I have done this before). As it is a USA company. Their are scam's out their but in this case (referring to knot2busy). The buyer is asking to pay through paypal, and willing to pay the paypal charge as well, because he is offshore. Give him a chance before calling it a scam. You have labelled this fellow before he has done anything wrong, you might lose a good sale because of it.

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Follow Up By: snoopyone - Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 10:22

Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 10:22
Its not Mick who's gullible.

The scammers use fake Paypal accounts etc and so you are not actually dealing with Paypal at all especially if they post a link for you to log in to Paypal.
If they do and you use it they have your login and password as well and so can get all your details.

Who would buy an expensive van without looking at it.

My rule is Never send ANYTHING goods Money the lot unless I have taken the money out and put it into my bank account.

Never use a link in an email either.

This is a well known scam whether anyone thinks so or not and the best advice to the OP is have nothing to do with it.

From the Paypal site as to buyer protection about getting your money back

Well good luck with vehicles ( Vans)????

"Are all my purchases protected?

There are a few items that we can't offer Buyer Protection for, including:
all vehicles
intangibles, such as services or digital goods
licenses and access to digital content
travel tickets (including airline)
real estate
businesses for sale
prohibited items on the "PayPal Acceptable Use Policy"

So there you are
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Follow Up By: aussiedingo. (River Rina) - Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 10:38

Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 10:38
G'day again, it doesn't matter what site you use - be it paypal or whatever you must check the address to make sure it starts with - https - the s means secure site usually is a coloured address bar & sometimes a pic of a padlock. If you are unsure of any site type a fresh one in yourself to bypass any links. Look for the " https " always. hoo roo
"the only thing constant in my life is change"




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Follow Up By: Mick O - Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 12:50

Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 12:50
Yeah you'd hope that Andy, but you'd be surprised just how many people still fall for the old "I am the executor for the will of the Nigerian presidents cousin who has $25 million blah blah”.

I must confess to being surprised just how many emails I get on a weekly basis telling me something has been re-platformed, account structures have changes, systems been corrupted or any number of excuses , all asking me to log into a very official looking site and verifying my password and account details. The banks themselves notify you of these scams as a matter of priority when you log into their legitimate sites. They very, very rarely send an email because they are hard to distinguish from the scams. It's always on a legitimate website or by hard mail.

If you haven't seen any of these then you mustn't be checking your gmail or hotmail accounts. If you are not aware of this method of scam and it’s warning indicators in particular then you should be. They are listed on many scam alert sites.

I think the other main issue is the sheer connectivity in our lives these days as well. We do our banking, communicate via email or VOIP, shop, pursue hobbies and visit magazines, newspapers and forums. I think everyone has at least multiple sites that they possess passwords and account details for from our emails and this site upwards. There is so much information coming our way from the e-things we are involved with/connected to that people don’t always check the legitimacy of the requests they receive.

An example. Our 16 year old just got his first Iphone. He had to have an apple account linked to a credit card before he could take advantage of any apps even being free. Checked it and it was legit but would you do it? I’ve got an android phone and I had to have a Google account linked to a credit card before I could venture into the App store as well despite only wanting to download free stuff. With the rise in acceptance of e-commerce does everyone remember exactly what they’ve linked what details to. Can you even keep track of your passwords for everything (Health insurance, ambulance, RACV, utilities company, vehicle service centre, see what I mean. All pervasive)? A lot of the victims tend to be elderly because they are less savvy. Sad but true.
Wanna bet you 4x4 (or caravan) on whether it’s a scam or not in this case ;-)

Cheers Mick
''We knew from the experience of well-known travelers that the
trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
Richard Maurice - 1903

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Follow Up By: Meggs - Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 20:22

Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 20:22
Here's how the scam works. I was selling a boat for $3500 and withing 3 hours of it appearing in the Trading Post I got an email from a person who was working on an oil rig and he couldn't come and see it but would take it just the same. He asked for my Paypal account. I just made up one in my head of Anna Blight George street Brisbane.

Well the next email I get was an official looking Paypal receipt for $5000 remember I only made up the account it didn't exist.

Now for the sting. He said he would pay $3500 for the boat and to send to some jerkoff in Kuala Lumpa $1500 by Western Union money transfer so he could arrange for shipping. The catch being the Western Union money transfer as you can't reverse it.

If you have a scrolll mouse just hold down the ctrl key and scroll so you can zoom in to read
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Follow Up By: Member Andys Aussie Adventure - Sunday, Aug 21, 2011 at 07:00

Sunday, Aug 21, 2011 at 07:00
Thanks for clearing that up Mick. As for the gmail, hotmail, they are deleted by my email filter before it even gets to me. Only emails that are from ISP Internet Service Providers get through, as these email addresses are attached to a photo ID eg drivers licence plus another form of ID medicare etc. This address can then be traced by police, and find that no scamer will use ISP emails. I have 14 hotmail addresses not one with the same name or address or D.O.B goes to show how easy it is to get a false one. If everyone filtered gmail-hotmail the scam would stop or at least slow down and police would catch them. Oh I would like to give the fellow a go and see if the money or "THAT EMAIL" is their, it would be interesting. As the email was only to inquire as to if he could and how much, and more photos and he has arranged transport if sale went through, and would pay the paypal charge that would be imposed on the seller. so until THAT EMAIL arrived I would treat it as a genuine buyer. I am a paypal user and if everyone labelled a paypal buyer or seller a scamer I would lose thousands of potential buyers and sellers, with a safe way of transferring money. I totaly agree to let people know of a scam, but wait till it is a scam first, before putting the word out (eg till THAT EMAIL arrives) Yours Andy

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Reply By: Phillipn - Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 07:05

Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 07:05
I had a lot of these people [e-mails] wanting to buy a caravan I had for sale a few months back.

Do you want the E-mail addresses they use?

They won`t give phone numbers.

One of the E=mails had their home address that they forgot to remove prior to sending. The address was Gladstone Qld.

All wanted to have money sent via western union to help them pay for the delivery.
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Follow Up By: Member Andys Aussie Adventure - Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 07:22

Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 07:22
If payment is made through western union it is a scam.

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Reply By: TerraFirma - Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 08:02

Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 08:02
Wow , they are getting personal now..! Well done and thanks for pointing out Rod..
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Follow Up By: Bigfish - Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 09:57

Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 09:57
Cant believe how naive some people are. The world is not a rosy ,cummfy place. Thousands of people have been hit with paypal scams. I personally have had my bank acct raided twice. Westpac straight onto it and no lose.
Dont be bloody stupid and insist that until you have cash in your hand there will be no sale. Why would you trust someone that you have never met, is trying to get your goods for less, wants you to trust him and there is no money in your hand.

One born every day.
cheers
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Reply By: Chris & Sue (Briz Vegas) - Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 08:31

Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 08:31
Hi Rod,

This is exactly the same scam / con I came across when I sold our camper/trailer and my motorbike last year. I have to admit though, that the English in this one is heaps better than the ones I got. They were full of spelling and grammar mistakes and struck me as suss even before I figured out how the sting worked.

To get it from another perspective, look at:

Carsales explanation of PayPal scam

Basically,they're not after your van/car/bike/boat. They forge a PayPal deposit,then they get you to "refund" a portion of the non-existent funds you think you've just been paid, back to the scammers. End result is you're out of pocket.

Try Googling 'PayPal scam' and peruse some of the 14 million entries that pop up.

On a slightly different topic, I won't use PayPal. I'd rather miss a sale. Another poster has said 'they are like a bank'. That's exactly the problem. They act like a bank, but they are not registered as a bank and the consumer has zero protection from their arbitrary decisions to reverse payments, withhold your funds, etc while they 'investigate' things.

I know some people who have never had any problems with them, but I refuse to deal with them. Your mileage may vary.

Cheers,
Chris
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Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 09:33

Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 09:33
Yea, he's giving you a load of crap.
Anyone with an existing bank account can set up internet banking without physically having to present anything to the bank.
It can all be achieved online, over the internet.

Bill


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Follow Up By: Member Andys Aussie Adventure - Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 10:14

Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 10:14
Sorry to inform you Sand Man but you do have to go to the bank to activate it as they give you a password, only over the counter. As he said he has to go to the bank and activate it, as you do, and is at see at the moment. So he can not get internet banking until he goes into bank. So where is the crap!!

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Follow Up By: snoopyone - Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 10:37

Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 10:37
Sorry but you dont at all
I have several accessable acounts with two banks and have never gone near a bank branch when setting up internet banking.

Have opened the account originally at the bank told them I want Internet access on the account and then gone home and done the rest with my own passwords which even the bank dont know.

All I have to do is register for IB and type in my customer ID no and put in a password of my own making ad submit it after confirming my details.


Same with a credit card They POST THE PASSWORD to you.

If the guy has a Paypal account he must have an account of some sort as you have to have a bank account or credit card account linked to your Paypal account . They dont just give you the money.

Its so full of holes the SEA where he is will get in LOL

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Follow Up By: Member Andys Aussie Adventure - Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 11:13

Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 11:13
I would like to know which bank, It is a new account only you do not have a card. If you open an account the bank sends out a pin number for you to activate it and then you change the pin number, well the same with the internet banking you get a number or password from your bank and then you change it. This number is only available in the bank, unless you already have phone banking set up. Otherwise it is every easy to get peoples customer ID as it is on the back of your card, and open an internet account and clean you out. Hope your money is safe???

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Follow Up By: snoopyone - Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 13:15

Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 13:15
Im sure you would like to know but I dont disclose my banking info to anyone.

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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 17:55

Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 17:55
to open a new australian bank account you need a 100 point identification check dont you?
Not sure how that can be done over the internet.
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Follow Up By: snoopyone - Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 18:01

Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 18:01
I said I had opened the account and went home and set up internet banking..
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Follow Up By: The Original JohnR (Vic) - Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 23:01

Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 23:01
Guys, I am aware of a guy whose bank account was raided and money transferred to a parallel account, before it was later paid elsewhere. Obviously someone had scammed a new account.

His unit he knew had been broken into once, and possibly again when he found his computer mouse on the opposite side of the desk to what he would normally use it. Apparently a key-logger must have been put on the computer to gain passwords.

The police to all intents and purposes believe he transferred the money himself, though the money went into the criminal world. Not a nice scenario as he is seen implicated. International threatening calls are part and parcel of the scenario.

The factor to take from this is to make sure that no body gets access to anything to make up the 100 points, though going to a different branch of the same bank you normally deal with you only need some of the ID factors to gain access. Lock your computer with passwords too!
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Follow Up By: Member Andys Aussie Adventure - Sunday, Aug 21, 2011 at 05:20

Sunday, Aug 21, 2011 at 05:20
Internet accounts are linked to a savings account and that is the only way you can move money from bank account to internet account. You can't transfer money from a internet account to pay bills or anything else, it must be first put back into your savings account. Oh I see snoopyone DID go to the bank. And that's; when they set up internet banking for you. You just can't open a internet account without going to the bank first. That is the point I was trying to make, If he is a sea he needs to get to a bank before he can get internet banking, and that is what the first letter said. I'm trying to say that I myself would buy a van from pictures and pay with paypal and would hate to be called a scamer. What I said is give this fellow a go wait till you get THAT email before labelling him a scamer. All this fellow has done is ask if he COULD pay by paypal and what price was wanted, no sign of a receipt from paypal or any other demands, YET. Wait till they come, and then call him a scammer, until then it could be you or me or a lot of other people wanting to buy it, but cant pay for it because you labelled anyone using paypal a scamer.

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Reply By: Mark-cas - Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 09:36

Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 09:36
Hi All
This is the same text i recieved aswell.



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Follow Up By: rumpig - Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 14:53

Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 14:53
i recently sold my caravan by ads i placed on several free forums on the net. anyone that was legitimately interested in the van rang my mobile number listed in the ad and asked me questions about the caravan.
anyone that sent me a text message like the one mentioned above aswell as a couple of other different text messages i got, WERE ALL SCAMMERS!!!
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Reply By: get outmore - Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 23:19

Saturday, Aug 20, 2011 at 23:19
most of these scams are primative but dont underestimate their complexity evolving

never forget to get money off of someone you used to have to hit the streets with a gun or knife and take it by force

now all you need to do is have a computer and internet access and you have 000,000s of potential marks

the internet was just made for scams, and fraud same as credit cards and identity theft

I do no business over the net, no credit cards no online banking

its very easy to do and eliminates all of that
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Reply By: River Swaggie - Sunday, Aug 21, 2011 at 06:01

Sunday, Aug 21, 2011 at 06:01
Its not as if they've got much too lose either,Like a hand for being dirty rotten scoundrel thieves...
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Reply By: knot2busy - Sunday, Aug 21, 2011 at 09:11

Sunday, Aug 21, 2011 at 09:11
Hi All
Seems I have generated a bit of interest in this topic

Replied to new friend Brian on Friday (via email) asking him to have a look at a internet link. The one listed below. To my surprise Brian has not made contact since.So I'm guessing were not friends any more

www.exploroz.com/Forum/Topic/85242/Scams.aspx

The way contact was made in the first place seemed a bit suss so after talking to my partner who also said it seems suss thought I would check it out. So all I did was Google (spelling correct this time) ----west alliance submersible----. The first link was to the address above. The information that I read was so similar to what I receive it left no doubt that is was a scam

Thank you for all the comments and I guess its forum like this which helps people get messages out there

Regards
Rod
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Reply By: fisho64 - Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 19:00

Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 19:00
the bummer with all of this for me is that I AM at sea and I DO sometimes email chasing second hand parts while I have no phone cover.

Also ask for stuff to be posted-generally not caravans or cars though!
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